Forum squelch list for devs so they can read in peace

[MeliCat]

i'm really surprised by some of the nasty, childish, vitrollic posts in the forums against devs and Turbine. it's a frigging game. if you don't like stuff, leave. yes go. we don't want you here because you're not fun. if you are one of the people making those nasty, childish, whingey, whiny, me-me-me posts then please go away.

if the feature doesn't already exist (or maybe it just hasn't been implemented?) i would highly suggest that it was possible to add forum users to a do-not-read list so that all posts of theirs come up with a 'this post is from a user on your do-not-read list'.

even better, the poor cubes who moderate these forums, can ADD to this list the nasty forum posters who are of the style that would be useless and unpleasant for a dev to read. there would be a special devs not-to-be-read-posters list.

becuase there ARE a lot of good posts and feedback in the forums and a number of us love being able to interact with the devs i hope they will continue to be in and amongst us. but there is also an ammount of complete nasty muckraking swill that's here would make reading the forums for devs tantamount to subjecting themselves to workplace bullying.

locking threads and deleting posts is not enough. posters blackout is required.

[Visty]

go to user cp
click on edit ignore list
???
profit

[Kiranselie]

it exists, called an ignore list

I put a lot of the devs on mine some time ago

[MeliCat]

go to user cp
click on edit ignore list
???
profit

that's a personal list.... there shoudl be a collective cube list too....

also... i want that feature where i can get to it more easily.

[Visty]

a collective cube list already exists
its called "list of ppl banned till 2039"

[AZgreentea]

You would think there would be a way to add someone to your ignore list from their post. I will have to play with it, I've never used it.

[MeliCat]

don't think i'm going to get anywhere...

i'm just really surprised how horrible some people are. oh well...

[Cyr]

Negative feedback can be more valuable then positive feedback.

What differentiates feedback is the emotion behind it (how strongly someone feels about the subject) and the details evident in it (as in posts that say simple "I hate X" with no explanation are less useful then posts that say "I hate X, because it leads to Y, prevents me from doing Z...").

Only listening to the good things someone says about your product is a good way to lose customers as the negative feedback often contains the details a business needs to improve their product to satisfy their customers and keep their business.

Some things are horrible broken at Turbine HQ and one of them is effective communication with their customers.

Stainer's post about the Sully chest proved that critical information is not getting to the developers through official channels nor through other channels except a direct PM to the correct developer.

Clearly the developers do not need more ways to prevent them from seeing critical information.

[stainer]

vitrollic

stainer gonna need help with that word!

[MeliCat]

Negative feedback can be more valuable then positive feedback.

What differentiates feedback is the emotion behind it (how strongly someone feels about the subject) and the details evident in it (as in posts that say simple "I hate X" with no explanation are less useful then posts that say "I hate X, because it leads to Y, prevents me from doing Z...").

Only listening to the good things someone says about your product is a good way to lose customers as the negative feedback often contains the details a business needs to improve their product to satisfy their customers and keep their business.

Some things are horrible broken at Turbine HQ and one of them is effective communication with their customers.

Stainer's post about the Sully chest proved that critical information is not getting to the developers through official channels nor through other channels except a direct PM to the correct developer.

Clearly the developers do not need more ways to prevent them from seeing critical information.

Cyr this is NOT what i said.

it is quite possible to convey 'negative' feedback passionately and clearly without the nasty b1tchy gutter trawling that happens here by some posts.

how stupid do you think i am?

of *course* i want clear constructive feedback. in no way do i think that should be stopped. WHERE do i say that?

the petty pathetic bullying and just plain 4-year old but-i-want-it-different whining is both unconstructive and unpleasant.

if you think that i think that everything should be sweetness and light then grow up.

[rest]

This exists. When someone is put in moderated status, their posts have to be reviewed before they will appear on the forums. This can happen when you reach a certain threshold of negative rep, or through direct intervention by Tarrant/Tolero.

[stainer]

Cyr and MeliCat -

You both have good points.

The feedback system is broken. My Sulu end chest post is one example, but there are many more. The preview server often shows things that are posted about, but are later "unknown" to the developers, despite the many posts about them. If it only happened once, I would be understanding, but this is a pattern.

I grew up in the south and I heard lots of southern wisdom growing up. A big one was, "you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar". This is true in this case. We know there is a problem, but constantly berating someone, especially someone that has no control over the situation, does nothing to help us/them/anyone.

Another example is this. We all have what I call "Hammer money". You should save your "hammer money" for an emergency. If you spend your "hammer money" all the time yelling at people when it isn't necessary, no one will listen to you when you do need spend it.

Remember, we only know 1 part of the story. We can be helpful and get our point across without being demeaning or destructive. We want them to participate. We need them to participate. I know it is hard, but at some point you have to put the past aside and try to move on.

[Cyr]

Cyr this is NOT what i said.

it is quite possible to convey 'negative' feedback passionately and clearly without the nasty b1tchy gutter trawling that happens here by some posts.

how stupid do you think i am?

of *course* i want clear constructive feedback. in no way do i think that should be stopped. WHERE do i say that?

the petty pathetic bullying and just plain 4-year old but-i-want-it-different whining is both unconstructive and unpleasant.

if you think that i think that everything should be sweetness and light then grow up.

Your first post in thread stated...

"if you don't like stuff, leave. yes go."

That sounds exactly like you are saying negative feedback is not valid and should not be listened to.

I will not parse words here.

You are advocating that the developers ignore feedback from certain users entirely because you think they post in a manner that is 'nasty b1tchy gutter trawling'. Everyone's bar for this is different and one poster who posts a post that you might consider to be in this manner may very well post a multi paragraph post with detailed feedback the very same day. Your suggestion would squelch dissenting voices. There is no way around that. That would eliminate strong negative feedback from the eyes of the developers and would provide them with a much less accurate picture of how their product is being recieved and the details that could make that product better recieved.

Your suggestion boils down to...

Some people are too mean. The developers need special blinders to protect them from seeing these mean people's posts like the horses who draw carriages have so they don't bolt into traffic.

[Missing_Minds]

Negative feedback can be more valuable then positive feedback.

The problem is most people just whine and *****. That is negative feedback, but almost useless.

Constructive feed back is what is key, be it positive or negative.

[MeliCat]

Your first post in thread stated...

"if you don't like stuff, leave. yes go."

That sounds exactly like you are saying negative feedback is not valid and should not be listened to.

I will not parse words here.

You are advocating that the developers ignore feedback from certain users entirely because you think they post in a manner that is 'nasty b1tchy gutter trawling'. Everyone's bar for this is different and one poster who posts a post that you might consider to be in this manner may very well post a multi paragraph post with detailed feedback the very same day. Your suggestion would squelch dissenting voices. There is no way around that. That would eliminate strong negative feedback from the eyes of the developers and would provide them with a much less accurate picture of how their product is being recieved and the details that could make that product better recieved.

Your suggestion boils down to...

Some people are too mean. The developers need special blinders to protect them from seeing these mean people's posts like the horses who draw carriages have so they don't bolt into traffic.

dear Cyr, read again.

it would squelch SOME dissenting voices.

it would squelch those who are incapable of framing their comments without basic respect.

thank you for your inaccurate simplification of what i actually said. i hope others who read this thread are capable of comprehending what is meant by passionate argument without the need to demean.

no different from elsewhere in the world really - business place, politics. if you belittle people they will not hear you. having a list to protect people from such bullies would just be an aid so that devs can read more peacefully those who *are* capable of framing their feedback with basic respect. and perhaps the knowledge that such a list exists may even force some bullies to modify their behaviour so that they can engage to promote change.

anyway, you seem to be enjoying willfully misunderstanding me. go ahead. i couldn't be bothered arguing with you. you do not value what i have to say enough to bother working out what i am saying.

[Cyr]

Cyr and MeliCat -

You both have good points.

The feedback system is broken. My Sulu end chest post is one example, but there are many more. The preview server often shows things that are posted about, but are later "unknown" to the developers, despite the many posts about them. If it only happened once, I would be understanding, but this is a pattern.

I grew up in the south and I jheard lots of southern wisdom growing up. A big one was, "you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar". This is true in this case. We know there is a problem, but constantly berating someone, especially someone that has no control over the situation, does nothing to help us/them/anyone.

Another example is this. We all have what I call "Hammer money". You should save your "hammer money" for an emergency. If you spend your "hammer money" all the time yelling at people when it isn't necessary, no one will listen to you when you do need spend it.

Remember, we only know 1 part of the story. We can be helpful and get our point across without being demeaning or destructive. We want them to participate. We need them to participate. I know it is hard, but at some point you have to put the past aside and try to move on.

Stainer,

There will always be people who will feel strongly about game issues and it may not be in their nature to post in a manner that alters the tenor of how they actually feel about a change. It is unrealistic to think otherwise.

The developers will always have this excuse to take their ball and go home.

Also remember we are not talking about customer service here.

We are talking about feedback. Once you start to alter the nature of feedback to prevent hurting someone's feelings or hide feedback from someone to protect them in some manner you have altered the fundamental nature of that feedback to be more positive and have lost details that could be valuable.

When companies do marketing research to gather feedback about a new product they make sure to mention that no one who worked on the product is around. They want brutal honest feedback and they know that merely the social convention of someone worrying about hurting someone's feelings alters this feedback.

The point of course being that feedback is about how you feel about something and if you want good feedback you want unfiltered and honest responses. If you are dealing with someone who is performing a service for you and what you feel is irrelevant to their job function (or mostly irrelevant) then of course honey all the way.

[stainer]

Stainer,

There will always be people who will feel strongly about game issues and it may not be in their nature to post in a manner that alters the tenor of how they actually feel about a change. It is unrealistic to think otherwise.

The developers will always have this excuse to take their ball and go home.

Also remember we are not talking about customer service here.

We are talking about feedback. Once you start to alter the nature of feedback to prevent hurting someone's feelings or hide feedback from someone to protect them in some manner you have altered the fundamental nature of that feedback to be more positive and have lost details that could be valuable.

When companies do marketing research to gather feedback about a new product they make sure to mention that no one who worked on the product is around. They want brutal honest feedback and they know that merely the social convention of someone worrying about hurting someone's feelings alters this feedback.

The point of course being that feedback is about how you feel about something and if you want good feedback you want unfiltered and honest responses. If you are dealing with someone who is performing a service for you and what you feel is irrelevant to their job function (or mostly irrelevant) then of course honey all the way.

Cyr,

I am just saying that the same thing may be accomplished without being negative every time. When I sent Madfloyd the PM, I was respectful and it seemed to get results. I think the continuous negativity turns a lot of people off, and doesn't help us accomplish our intended goal of game improvement.

I know you have been here a lot longer than me and have been through some lean times. I am respectful of your opinion and enjoy the debates that we have. I just think that, "Hey, the rage spell is broke" is more effective than "*&^##$$ rage spell, OMG die in a fire".

I think we can both agree someone in this thread is getting a neg rep just as soon as my greenis resets for disruptive posting.

[Tarrant]

Hi all - please use this thread to continue the discussion. We won't be squelching players so it doesn't need to be in Suggestions. Thanks!