End Game Sorcs

[reddoormedia]

I have had a great time playing my sorc to almost 19. Mostly solo and I have found this toon to be great at soloing.
After trying a few shroud raids I am wondering just how useful this class is.

With all the elites and their mass hp, it seems were are reduced to buffers/de-buffers. Having a limited spell pool pretty much seals the deal as far as sustained dps is concerned. Bards and wizzies seem to make better buffers than we are. I know we can buff, but others are better, wiz's are better, and bards can buff and dps besides.

In my limited experience endgame mobs look like they are built for being beat on by melee toons with no mana restrictions. Getting in groups can be tough I notice too. Sorc's feel like a charity case. Am I missing something or are sorcs pretty gimped at end game? Is farming pretty much what we do best?

Thinking of rolling a FVS

[systemstate]

I have had a great time playing my sorc to almost 19. Mostly solo and I have found this toon to be great at soloing.
After trying a few shroud raids I am wondering just how useful this class is.

With all the elites and their mass hp, it seems were are reduced to buffers/de-buffers. Having a limited spell pool pretty much seals the deal as far as sustained dps is concerned. Bards and wizzies seem to make better buffers than we are. I know we can buff, but others are better, wiz's are better, and bards can buff and dps besides.

In my limited experience endgame mobs look like they are built for being beat on by melee toons with no mana restrictions. Getting in groups can be tough I notice too. Sorc's feel like a charity case. Am I missing something or are sorcs pretty gimped at end game? Is farming pretty much what we do best?

Thinking of rolling a FVS

Not at all! I started to feel the same way, then got some advice regarding spell selection and gearing. For spell point conservation purposes, I do find myself primarily doing crowd control, and destroying trash mobs with WoB. Somewhere between levels 16 and 18 I made the transition from pure nuker to strategist. I don't lead in the kill count anymore, but I know that my contributions to the group can be huge.

My most used spells at endgame (not in any particular order):

Attack:
Wail of the Banshee
Finger of Death
Polar Ray

Crowd Control:
Mass Hold Monster
Waves of Exhaustion
Cloudkill
Otto's Irresistible Dance

Buffs:
Greater Heroism
Stoneskin
Displacement

[Carpone]

I have had a great time playing my sorc to almost 19. Mostly solo and I have found this toon to be great at soloing.
After trying a few shroud raids I am wondering just how useful this class is.

I won't step foot into an epic quest without a sorcerer or wizard.

Most of the arcanes in my guild solo most of epic Wizard King and The Prisoner and farm both for scrolls.

[reddoormedia]

I certainly see them as the ultimate soloer. I enjoy playing her.

It's the group raids where I see the limitations. When looking for a group I often notice one sorc is all that's needed for shroud runs. I don't feel much love for the class on these runs because face it you don't need a sorc. That sux for a class that has been so beneficial to groups prior to this point. Seems that the devs haven't found a way to utilize the class endgame where they become needed more. That's all I'm saying. After being penultimate DPS for so long I find it ironic that raids are asking for DPS and now Sorc's don't qualify.....

[MeToo]

Most of the arcanes in my guild solo most of epic Wizard King and The Prisoner and farm both for scrolls.

How are these arcanes built and geared? Do they solo farm these without already being decked out in greensteel or burning any scrolls and mana potions? Are they pure nuking, high DC instakilling or more melee specced?

Is spell penetration or blanket immunities to enchantment an issue in epic quests like they are starting in the Vale?

[KillEveryone]

I certainly see them as the ultimate soloer. I enjoy playing her.

It's the group raids where I see the limitations. When looking for a group I often notice one sorc is all that's needed for shroud runs. I don't feel much love for the class on these runs because face it you don't need a sorc. That sux for a class that has been so beneficial to groups prior to this point. Seems that the devs haven't found a way to utilize the class endgame where they become needed more. That's all I'm saying. After being penultimate DPS for so long I find it ironic that raids are asking for DPS and now Sorc's don't qualify.....

If you have a bard and a ranger you don't need a arcane at all. The bard will keep haste up, a couple of melees can take care of trash in part 1, the ranger will be able to manyshot the crystal in part 2. The arcane is nice to have in part 4 and 5 for debuff and cloudkill with trash CC.

Hound you don't really need an arcane either. A bard will suffice and can scroll a globe of invulnerability if someone has bees, scroll stoneskin, mass bulls/bears and what ever other buff they need.

Arcane in VoD makes orthons and devils easiear to deal with but it isn't really necessary.

I end up starting my own groups if I'm on my Wiz and can't get into a group. Rever is easy so I'm not waiting for people to join anymore.

Arcane are really nice to have for CC though with mass hold monster and symbol of stunning. Good spells that help get rid of hard to beat down trash.

My preference is the Wiz though. Quite a few Sorcerers don't have some decent CC or debuff spells and a Wiz most likely will since they can memorize any arcane spell. I haven't really encountered any need for that huge SP pool that the Sorcerer has. Not sure how it is on epic yet though.

[Audita_Querela]

any chance the voice of power PrE is viable end game?

[tinyelvis]

I have had a great time playing my sorc to almost 19. Mostly solo and I have found this toon to be great at soloing.
After trying a few shroud raids I am wondering just how useful this class is.

With all the elites and their mass hp, it seems were are reduced to buffers/de-buffers. Having a limited spell pool pretty much seals the deal as far as sustained dps is concerned. Bards and wizzies seem to make better buffers than we are. I know we can buff, but others are better, wiz's are better, and bards can buff and dps besides.

In my limited experience endgame mobs look like they are built for being beat on by melee toons with no mana restrictions. Getting in groups can be tough I notice too. Sorc's feel like a charity case. Am I missing something or are sorcs pretty gimped at end game? Is farming pretty much what we do best?

Thinking of rolling a FVS

You should be careful saying we. This is not the case for a lot of sorcerer players. A well spec'd caster at your level should pull off 50 to 70 kills regularly with ease in the shroud, take on any mini boss alone, and do massive damage to Harry with proper spell use. Some info on your race, feat selection, and spell DC's would help us find out why you perform so poorly.

Don't feel too bad about poor performance though. It is the typical level of play for sorcerers now. Its tougher learning to play a sorcerer well than a melee (the latter usually only requires someone telling them what weapon to buy and who the bad guy is to charge), so the mean performance of all sorcerers is low. That is why few get invited to the big parties. If sorcerer players typically played up to their potential then they would be invited to quests and raids in higher frequency (as often as a well spec'd melee).

Let me ask you this question. Was hitpoints and selfheal a priority to you over spell performance?

[reddoormedia]

the question for me is would I have felt a lot more useful and needed putting out melee dps and maybe some heals. I certainly accept your arguments that Sorc's when played well are useful and even an asset. And that I am not one of those great sorcs at this time.

I just don't think the majority of people in the Raids (pugs) feel they need to have a sorc. And it's hard not to see that when you have a harder time getting into a group because your class isn't needed or that others do it better.

This goes on in pretty much every MMO. I find that End game is always about sustained DPS and healing first and foremost and the other classes get the crumbs.

[Varis]

ok, here some words on popular raids and quests.

Queen you can do solo
Reaver you can do solo
SOS you can solo

Not even worth comparing if you can do the quest without anyones help...


Vale casters are needed for killing all the portal trash. Nobody comes even close to doing it as fast as a sorc/wiz.
You are also useful in part 2 because you can either do the crystal OR solo the earth/fire elemental.
part 3 you are useful because you can knock doors to people that need help and to quickly drop crystals that block the entrance to the fountain.
part 4 you are again needed to exhaust harry and put a cloudkill on him (for cover) AND to kill the healers quickly if the DPS is not all that hot.
part 5 is the same thing, exhaust, cloud kill and burn your mana iwth polar ray, preferably nuking while charging mana at the pool.

VOD? of course they want you. You may be nothing more then a haste and cloud kill monkey but with the healers busy it falls to you killing the bats before they get to the group.

Hound? GH, stoneskin, rage and haste the dogs. You can also peel off mobs that butt in on the tank because any melee getting close will get overrun.


ToD??? Are you kidding? without a good caster most raids will never get past the 2nd boss. Clerics will slow down enough to get cought and die. Archers will do fine at first but as more shades join, they will get overwhelmed with keeping them all going after him before they make it up the stairs.

So yeah, a caster is still very very important in a raid. You need to be able to perform your duties though and just like a raid can't use 5 healers, there is no need for more then 2 casters to deal with any issues.

If you get more casters, they will need to fill a DPS slot and while that's possible, the chances of that happening on a pug shroud is aproaching 0

[Carpone]

How are these arcanes built and geared? Do they solo farm these without already being decked out in greensteel or burning any scrolls and mana potions? Are they pure nuking, high DC instakilling or more melee specced?

Is spell penetration or blanket immunities to enchantment an issue in epic quests like they are starting in the Vale?

For epic Wiz King, they use a healer hireling as a money saving measure (compared to heal scrolls).

This guy has craptacular gear and does just fine soloing epics:
http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/avria

[Carpone]

I certainly see them as the ultimate soloer. I enjoy playing her.

It's the group raids where I see the limitations. When looking for a group I often notice one sorc is all that's needed for shroud runs. I don't feel much love for the class on these runs because face it you don't need a sorc. That sux for a class that has been so beneficial to groups prior to this point.

The Shroud is not a litmus test in any way, shape or form that defines end-game usefulness or desirability of a sorcerer. You always want at least one arcane for any raid: Waves of Exhaustion.

Seems that the devs haven't found a way to utilize the class endgame where they become needed more. That's all I'm saying. After being penultimate DPS for so long I find it ironic that raids are asking for DPS and now Sorc's don't qualify.....

Your problem is running with PUGs. People that raid together regularly know it's about the player, not the class. I've done plenty of elite Shrouds, elite Abbot or epic DQ where we had 6 arcane guildies and it went flawlessly and quickly. We routinely have 2-3 arcanes for elite ToD and epic VON6 and it's not a hindrance. Player > character in 95% of the circumstances I've raided.

Find better people to raid with.