What stacks with what? 15 vs 14 lvl of BRD

[dbik123]

So I recently decided on a 15/3/2 Bard/Rogue/Fighter Human WC. I started playing him two days ago and got him to level 4 thus far. (rogue level first of course).

But then I started looking at the songs and spells and thought maybe I'd like to lose one more Bard level...but I still dont have a good grasp on what spell buffs stack with my song buffs etc etc.

Bottom line, I already decided to give up my level 6 spells by not going Bard 16...I dont think I lose a thing on my songs at bard 14 vs 15...I think the only thing I'll be missing is the other song if I go with 14 vs 15 (inspire heroics?) but I dont know how often I'll be using that song since I think its my inspire courage that gets amped up with all my enhancements.

I am more concerned with my songs being at top notch than my spells (while not capped of course)

Then, I need to figure out if I want to do Rogue 4 or Fighter 3...TWF Khops is the plan. Any ideas? What do I gain with 4 Rogue vs 3 fighter?

If anyone could clear this up, I'd be in your debt. Thank you.

[Bardicus]

Fighter 3 gets you pretty much nothing.

If your split is 14/x/x I think the decision comes down to either 14/4 rogue/2 fighter or 14/4 fighter/2 rogue - the reason for the latter being fighter 4 grants an additional feat and another rank of fighter toughness (10hp).

[Noctus]

The 15th bard level gives you the AC song. Missing that can lead you to not get taken to raids, as they want to use an AC tank for the boss. Thats not often, but can happen.

Otherwise 14 Bard is still okay. Then you can go 6 Fighter, or 4 Fighter (weapon spec, Toughness II) / 2 Rogue, or 4 Rogue / 2 Fighter.

3 Fighter anything is bad. 3rd Fighter level is cruppy.

[dbik123]

Decisions Decisions....

I really like the 14/4/2 B/R/F Build...hard to believe that 4ac is that important...I think it would lend itself better for solo/grouping than 15/3/2....I think I'm gonna follow the rabid halfling build, but adapt it for my human WC.

For the added human feat, planning on Khops...would improved crit or OTWF be better?

[BoBoDaClown]

hard to believe that 4ac is that important...

...would improved crit or OTWF be better?

4AC is 20% of a d20 spread... which means if you are around the AC mark for a given raid it could make the difference between being hit on a 20, or a 16...

That said, for a lot of content the AC song is not needed.

Improved crit.

[Noctus]

4AC is 20% of a d20 spread... which means if you are around the AC mark for a given raid it could make the difference between being hit on a 20, or a 16...

Or it could mean that instead of being hit with a -12, then monster now only need to roll a -8 to hit the recipient... (aka doesnt make any difference what so ever)

Or, on the other hand, if the AC tank already has an AC of 85, he´lll only get hit on a 20, with or without the song.


You have to find an AC tank with good, but not perfect, AC so that he can profit from your song. There are not many of these.

[Chette]

I currently have a 16/2/2 I've been thinking of LRing into a 16/4/2. The four levels of rogue will increase your sneak attack by 1d6, and I believe there is another sneak attack training enhancement at level 4 that you can pick up, as well as the second skill boost. The only thing stopping me from doing it is the AC song.

Right now my bard does a lot of raiding as she is trying to complete her gear. I don't use the AC song that often, but when I do use it, boy does it make a difference. I'm willing to sacrifice a small increase to my own DPS in order to keep a tank up for the entire raid party, particularly since there are a few people in my guild I play with regularly who I know greatly appreciate it. In another month or so, once I've finished collecting my raid gear (almost there!) I'll be doing epics almost exclusively. At that point AC song will no longer be useful, and I will probably respec. I also have a 14/4/2 bard/barb/fighter and she doesn't miss inspire heroics one bit

So, it depends what you plan to play, and who you plan to play with. There may be times when you'll be rejected from a raid for not having AC song, but it won't happen that often. Do what makes most sense to you and that you'll enjoy the most.

[BoBoDaClown]

Or it could mean that instead of being hit with a -12, then monster now only need to roll a -8 to hit the recipient... (aka doesnt make any difference what so ever)

Or, on the other hand, if the AC tank already has an AC of 85, he´lll only get hit on a 20, with or without the song.


You have to find an AC tank with good, but not perfect, AC so that he can profit from your song. There are not many of these.

I find it allows me more leeway with what I do with my AC. i.e. +4 AC is essentially the same as shield blocking or CE or making up some of the difference between twf and sword and boarding. So it allows me to do more dps while tanking. In saying that, I don't think we'd ever reject a bard for not having the AC song, unless we were really pushing the difficulty, so playing it safe.

I also think there are quite a few tanks who are 'around' the AC mark rather than exceeding it. But that could just be personal experience.

Obviously the AC song is situational.

[dbik123]

Thanks a ton for the help everyone. I think I'll go with 14/4/2 and take my chances on the raids. I'll still have the second best songs in the game after a capped WC.

Anyone know any guilds on Thelanis that are looking for a newly returned bard?

[voidholder]

As per the original stacking question, I guess the dodge AC bonus from the song stacks with everything (even other forms of dodge boni).

Saves bonus is a morale bonus as I think are the other songs saves boni so it probably overrides those but should stack with resistance bonus from other sources.

But I guess it doesn't matter now that you decided not to take it.