Some Assassinate DC info

[Draccus]

I had a chance to play some off-hours recently and, with fewer guild mates online, found myself soloing a ton. I ransacked both Weapon Shipment and Wrath of Flame in that time. In the latter quest, due to the layout, I was able to attempt quite a few assassinates and double assassinates. I tracked my success rate and will post them here for folks to get an idea of how high a DC you need to be successful.

First, Dresek's Assassinate DC is 38. Not great, but not bad. When in Assassinate mode, his int looks like this:

14 base
2 tome
1 Deadly Shadows
9 ToD ring
----------
26 Total

That gives him an assassinte DC of 10 + 20 + 8 = 38. Note that when I finally re-pull a +3 int tome, I can use an airship buff to gain another bracket.

So with an Assassinate DC of 38, I attempted 28 Assassinates in Wrath. 6 of those were attempted doubles. The result:

8 Success
30 made saves

So a success rate of around 30%.

However, if you count the doubles as two attemps with one success, it's really a success rate of 9/36 = 25%.

Shavarath is probably the hardest area to get an assassinate in -- possibly due to the Shavarath effect -- but one of the places where they are the most helpful. This is why I tend to recommend against people building their character around the Assassin II ability. I only had 8 kills from Assassin II but had 4-8 kills each run from rolling a 20.

[Bodic]

/agreed

my take on it though was a bit higher over a longer period worth something but not worth the 14 to 18 int base. I saw @45% kills, but then I could have been on a lucky streak. I have had the unlucky roll 1's streak of up to @50 mobs no joke.

with that do you count your 1's that dont even hit or not? I only counted actual hits.

[Draccus]

/agreed

my take on it though was a bit higher over a longer period worth something but not worth the 14 to 18 int base. I saw @45% kills, but then I could have been on a lucky streak. I have had the unlucky roll 1's streak of up to @50 mobs no joke.

with that do you count your 1's that dont even hit or not? I only counted actual hits.

I never had a complete whiff. Something strange is happening with the new TWF rules and I've gotten assassinates after rolling double-1s. I even took a screenshot of it and posted it here.

You Roll a 1. You miss!
You Roll a 1. You miss!
You Roll a 2. You hit!
You hit a so-and-so with assassinate...

[drobbins]

What are you attacking with, and what is your to-hit? I ask because I know I get a lot more assassinates from Weapons Shipment ... I would estimate around 60-70% ... don't know about double, because sometimes the mob has gotten pulled away too far to get a swing .... I'll try to keep up with my numbers next time I run it though and get back to you.

[Draccus]

What are you attacking with, and what is your to-hit? I ask because I know I get a lot more assassinates from Weapons Shipment ... I would estimate around 60-70% ... don't know about double, because sometimes the mob has gotten pulled away too far to get a swing .... I'll try to keep up with my numbers next time I run it though and get back to you.

Attacking with two RadII rapiers. Attack bonus peaks at around 52. Also, I did my testing in Wrath of Flame, not Weapon Shipment. I don't like to use assassinate in solo Weapon Shipment because I either have to wait at the Planescaller (which means she is getting pounded on by the mob I'm not assassinating) or try to hit them as they run past (not easy). I like to stand well in front of the planescaller, not hidden, so they all aggro on me from the start.

Like I mentioned above, I'm not missing. Each mob I attempted to assassinate was stationary. The misses are solely due to the mob saving verses DC38. I guess I could make this a bit clearer by saying that "mobs made their saves verses my assassinate 70-75% of the time with a DC of 38."

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I seemed to have more success.. but I'm basing it on perception in the heat of combat.. so I could be wrong.

My Rogue 18 with a 24 Int was getting closer to 50% IMO. Of course it could've been 30%ish and I was just getting lucky.

Thieflings seems easier of course... especially caster types and archers.

Bearded Devils were easier than Orthons.

I was doing normal.
And this is based on doing Sins and Genesis.
For sins there was another Assassin and we seemed to work great together. Also did a few outside with him.

I suppose 30% could be right, but it seemed higher to me....
Actually I was suprised it worked as well as it did!

I don't solo though... so less consequences if mine doesn't work. Swing away a while, then try again when the timer cools down....look for easy marks....etc.

Doubles seem to land alot too.

(I've also assassinated things standing behind me, and assassinated things even though I saw miss, miss on my screen.
(then there is the Invisibility thing...)

[drobbins]

Were you completely hidden when you attempted each assassination - meaning, none of them were aggroed on anything, or even that weird "looking for aggro" kind of motion some do?

If so, I wonder if it is because of the specific mob in that quest (a bunch of clerics and pallies)? ... I do know that most of them usually cast deathward as soon as they see something, but if you were hidden each time you assassinated, I suppose that wouldn't matter ...

[Sylvenon]

Amazingly, if your DC we just 2 higher, you'd likely see huge jump in your success rate.

I play a monk and a rogue, and my lvl 20 monk has a 40 fortitude save on his stunning fist, and lands it 90% of the time in Shavarath (quests and slayer). Consequently I have built my rogue so that he too will have a 40 fortitude save on assassination at lvl 20.

40 seems to be a magic number to get it to land...a lot. My 40 Stunning fist also lands 60%+ on epic content, so I am hoping that Assassinate does the same.

[Draccus]

40 seems to be a magic number to get it to land...a lot. My 40 Stunning fist also lands 60%+ on epic content, so I am hoping that Assassinate does the same.

Epic mobs all have Deathward so you can't assassinate or vorpal them.

[kamimitsu]

Thanks for some numbers Draccus. Like others, I *feel* my success rate is higher than that in Amrath/Wrath (my DC is only 1 higher), but perception is often far from reality.

I'm still having trouble, and feeling very unsatisfied, with the double assassinate/attack sequencing as it is VERY glitchy and feels incredibly awkward. An example: I was in Wrath recently with a group. I assassinated a monster, sidestepped to catch his companion for a double assassinate and somehow the guy BEHIND him fell over dead from Assassination. Very weird. How can I plan a formulated attack when I can rely on my attacks to function in any consistent manner? It drives me nuts! I really wish they would change this particular attack to the old method. Perhaps I should bump that thread (or start a new one) and see if we can get some exposure.

Not to hijack your thread... but since the Assassins are likely to be here anyway: is anyone else dissatisfied with the current flaky version of Assassinate?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Thanks for some numbers Draccus. Like others, I *feel* my success rate is higher than that in Amrath/Wrath (my DC is only 1 higher), but perception is often far from reality.

I'm still having trouble, and feeling very unsatisfied, with the double assassinate/attack sequencing as it is VERY glitchy and feels incredibly awkward. An example: I was in Wrath recently with a group. I assassinated a monster, sidestepped to catch his companion for a double assassinate and somehow the guy BEHIND him fell over dead from Assassination. Very weird. How can I plan a formulated attack when I can rely on my attacks to function in any consistent manner? It drives me nuts! I really wish they would change this particular attack to the old method. Perhaps I should bump that thread (or start a new one) and see if we can get some exposure.

Not to hijack your thread... but since the Assassins are likely to be here anyway: is anyone else dissatisfied with the current flaky version of Assassinate?

I've seen that too.
Assassinate something behind me. Seceral times.

Knowing that, I did Let Sleeping Dust Lie, and chose not to use assassinate at all, for fear of accidentily killing spiders.

I like being able to assassinate multiple targets at once, but I also would like my assassinations to be very precise.

Definately some strange things going on with it.

[Sylvenon]

Epic mobs all have Deathward so you can't assassinate or vorpal them.

Well...sounds like I figured out which toon to TR then.

[Draccus]

I've seen that too.
Assassinate something behind me. Seceral times.

Knowing that, I did Let Sleeping Dust Lie, and chose not to use assassinate at all, for fear of accidentily killing spiders.

I like being able to assassinate multiple targets at once, but I also would like my assassinations to be very precise.

Definately some strange things going on with it.

Yes, it's incredibly unreliable and unpredictable. I assassinated a barrel behind me once after assassinating a monster in front of me. That barrel never saw it coming. /flex

I don't mind changes and I don't mind the recent combat changes but some consistency would be nice. Sometimes assassinate acts just as it did prior to U5. Sometimes it acts like a single target, non-melee attack. Sometimes it acts like freakin' Wail of the Banshee. Pick one and stick to it!

[MateCarefor]

I have a suspicion that part of the odd targetting might stem from the new system supposedly added in U5.
Remember they made a note about being able to mouse lock target opponets?
(I think they had some cutesy comment like 'headshot!' in the release notes)

Well, I have seen in other games (like Fallen Earth) that targetting then can rely on camera position and movement, so you hit things 'in camera'.
So, when the barrel broke, was it between you (as in the plane of your monitor) and your character? (in camera?)

Be interesting, if y'all are willing, to test in first person mode and see if the target striking is more accurate.

[sorry if that was totally left-field, off topic, or derailing - great thread, and thankee for the research - it is much appreciated, was hoping to help a bit!]

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes, it's incredibly unreliable and unpredictable. I assassinated a barrel behind me once after assassinating a monster in front of me. That barrel never saw it coming. /flex

I don't mind changes and I don't mind the recent combat changes but some consistency would be nice. Sometimes assassinate acts just as it did prior to U5. Sometimes it acts like a single target, non-melee attack. Sometimes it acts like freakin' Wail of the Banshee. Pick one and stick to it!

lol....


Hmmm....maybe we can assassinate barrels to make up for regular barrel attacks bringing us out of sneak mode!

Edit: just tested... Yes!!!! Yes you can!

Thx.


Edit Edit: But then I decided to assassinate one of the four Kobolds standing nearby.
Four standing very close, but not quite close enough to do a double assassinate.
I kill one... a second immediate agroes on me, even though he is not facing me. But another one just walks calmly over to the spot where his friend died... the third was outside my view, so didn't actually see what his initial reaction was.

But why do these guys act differently?
I would love to be able to predict (and exploit. errr...I mean use tactically..) the reactions to my assasinations...