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  1. #1
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Default Artificers, DDO, and You!

    I am not a lore master, nor have I played PnP D&D, but I wanted to talk a moment about what I have learned about the Artificer class. If I am wrong, or otherwise inaccurately describe an aspect of the class, I welcome any corrections.
    Dont go getting all puffed up on me about Druids (I still want them too!) but I think the artificer class would be easier to implement in DDO than Druids. Why? Because we basically already have them!

    What is an artificer?
    For the completely unaware, there is a decent entry in Wikipedia. Basically you could say they are the pure class form of the popular multiclass Wiz/Rog. They combine the trap skills of a rogue, and the arcane skills of a wiz. However, they are not casters, in the true sense (like a Wiz/Sorc or a cleric/FS). An artificer "casts" magic by storing charges of a spell in an item, and them releasing them in combat. Their primary skill would be UMD, So you could say an Artificer is like an arcane rogue for Eberron.
    Given their association with crafting, and their tendency to work for House Cannith, Artificers tend to be very good with items, weapons, and constructs. Like was said before, they can infuse spells into equipment for later use (it is actually called "infusions"). They are also naturally skilled with disabling traps, UMD, and opening locks (dont worry rogues, stealth and sneak attacks are not their specialty). They also have item crafting skills. For example, they gain the ability to craft/repair wands, potions, rods, staves, magic weps and armor, and rings as they level up. They can also harvest the magic essence from items to use later.
    Obviously Artificers are the creators of constructs, and they built the WF we know today. Their knowledge of those allow them to create, repair, and obliterate constructs with ease. They also have the ability to craft Intelligent weapons (as was discussed in a different thread, I wont go there, it was a lengthy issue).

    You said we already had them?
    As you can see from the description, many aspects of Artificers already exist in the game in one form or another. It might take some work to mold those aspects into a single class, but theoretically it would be simpler to do it with what already exists than it would be to build a new class (druids for example) from almost nothing. There is something to be said for building a class from scratch, but building from existing elements has advantages as well. Unfortunately for Artificer and Druid fans alike, Fernando Paiz has already implied they plan to implement another race after Half Orc before they start with another class. Then again, that was months ago, so who knows.

    Allow me to illustrate an artificer in combat with the words of the great Keith Baker:

    WARNING! May contain spoilers. Do not read if you wish to read The City of Towers: The Dreaming Dark Book I

    (note: unarmed combat was required by the Minotaur for the challenge)
    Lei turned and bowed to the Minotaur. It watched her, its inhuman expression impossible to read. Handing the darkwood staff to Pierce, Lei ran her fingers along the studs of her armor, murmuring quietly, then she produced a pinch of powdered stone from her pouch and rubbed it into the leather of her belt. Daine recognized the mystical significance of her actions, but he had no idea what enchantments she was weaving into her clothing
    After a few minutes, Lei's preparations were complete. She turned and walked toward the minotaur, pausing at the bottom of the steps. She stood straight and tall, her arms at her sides, and took one slow, deep breath.
    "I wish to talk to the wind," she said.
    The guardian nodded, then without warning he charged down the steps, a blur of black and gold.
    To the others, the minotaur might be moving with blinding speed. But Lei had prepared for the fight, and to her enchanted eyes the beast was like a bull charging through three feet of mud. She barely moved, slipping just beyond his reach and turning as he rumbled past.
    The minotaur turned to face her, and Lei raised her left hand. With a whispered word she activated the power stored in her glove, and a dark bolt lanced out to strike her foe. Shadows wreathed the minotaur, blue light tracing his muscles as the magic leached the energy from his sinews. But the minotaur was already in motion, and he slammed into Lei before she could slip out of the way. The golden studs of Lei's armor flared with light, and the shimmering field of translucent energy deflected much of the raw force of the blow - but the sheer momentum of the attack threw her to the ground.
    Lei cursed as she struggled to her feet.
    She hadn't hurt the minotaur, but she had weakened him, and he was acting with more caution. They circled for a moment, then Lei slipped forward and past him, coming up behind and planting a powerful kick where she thought his kidneys might be. But if the minotaur felt pain, he didnt show it, and Lei had left herself open with the attack. Grunting, the beast slapped her with a powerful backhand blow. Her enchanted armor kept her on her feet, but for a moment the world went black, and when her vision cleared a monstrous fist was flying toward her face. Calling on every ounce of will, Lei dropped beneath the blow and slipped forward. Bringing her right hand up against her opponents chest, she extended her mind, reaching into the glove and unlocking the power she'd bound within. The minotaur howled as a brilliant arc of electrical energy surged through his body. The beast dropped to his knees and offered no resistance as Lei put her foot his throat and pushed him to the ground.
    The smell of ozone and burned fur filled the air, and for a moment the only sound was the minotaurs labored breathing. Finally, he opened his eyes and looked at her.
    "You may enter," he said. There was a distant click, and the door to the temple swung open a few inches.


    As you can see, there are things that are already in game that can mimic the way an artificer is played. For example, there are already augment slots in armor that can be used to store charged enhancements. I'm not saying its true to PnP, but DDO is modified, after all.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    /signed! I suggested this very thing a while back...we can dream * sigh*
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  3. #3
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    I found another fun link.

    I think there must be a demand for an artificer in the game already. Crafting is popular, as is the Rog/Wiz splash.

    Ashurr, can you think of any playability issues there might be with adding this class into the current DDO climate? Would they be woefully under or over powered if they were given 75% of their abilities. I figured 75% of the class would be about right for a first time implementation in DDO, given the state of 'completion' for the other classes.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Griphon's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I've stated this before in the Forums.

    The Technology is already in the game to create Artificers in a 'working' form. That would, be different from the actual PnP form. The Pally 'Holy Weapon' spell would be the conceptual basis for the class' casting abilities, then followed by the the new 'grenade' technology.

    It could be done.

    Will it be done? Eh. Don't know. I gave up hoping for things a long time ago.

  5. #5
    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    Imo, Artificer is the Epitome of what Eberron is. It is truly a shame that we have gone this long with out then.

    That being said I think they are truly working towards that goal. For example Master touch can now be cast on a weapon instead of a general buff. I think they are working on tech to make that happen



    Plus, I wanna be a Renegade Mastermaker!
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

  6. #6
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I found another fun link.

    I think there must be a demand for an artificer in the game already. Crafting is popular, as is the Rog/Wiz splash.

    Ashurr, can you think of any playability issues there might be with adding this class into the current DDO climate? Would they be woefully under or over powered if they were given 75% of their abilities. I figured 75% of the class would be about right for a first time implementation in DDO, given the state of 'completion' for the other classes.

    Only real playability issue I can see is Artificers duo'ing with Warforged, even though this is , essentially, the set-up intended for the class. System wise, there would be no problem - would even increase revenue for Turbine with people buying the Warforged race simply to run with an Artificer buddy ( if the infusions are kept per lore, some do not expire, or can be made permanent easily)The amount of pF2P griping would probably be almost endless.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I found another fun link.

    I think there must be a demand for an artificer in the game already. Crafting is popular, as is the Rog/Wiz splash.

    Ashurr, can you think of any playability issues there might be with adding this class into the current DDO climate? Would they be woefully under or over powered if they were given 75% of their abilities. I figured 75% of the class would be about right for a first time implementation in DDO, given the state of 'completion' for the other classes.

    Only real playability issue I can see is Artificers duo'ing with Warforged, even though this is , essentially, the set-up intended for the class. System wise, there would be no problem - would even increase revenue for Turbine with people buying the Warforged race simply to run with an Artificer buddy ( if the infusions are kept per lore, some do not expire, or can be made permanent easily)The amount of F2P griping would probably be almost endless.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I think the artificer class would be easier to implement in DDO than Druids. Why? Because we basically already have them!
    Could you expand on that?

    You seem to be disregarding the importance and difficulty of game design as a task. What would this Artificer you're talking about do? "Buff items" is not enough of a description.

    Here are several existing threads considering Artificers (although there have been more):
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226645
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=157183
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218863

  9. #9
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    That first thread already covers some of their skills, as they might play ingame. It was written prior to the slotting of guild augments, so that could be factored into the class. Instead of directly infusing spells into their equipment for later, they can be given the ability to add enchantments to sigils and add them to slotted armor/gear. This would more closely resemble they way Keith Baker described the class above (the 'studs' in Lei's armor were previously described in the story as being something common to artificers. It was implied this is their favorite way to store spells, the studs being like studded armor on the front, with sigils on the surface).

    However their primary role in DDO would most likely be support, like a pure Rogue Mechanic, Spellsinger, or a healbot. I would need time to think about what splashes would make them good in combat, but there are certainly many classes that can use the ability to self haste or access other arcane spells (like a rogue/Artificer splash which would prevent a loss of some rogue class skills).

    They have talent with repair, and crafting that could open up that world to DDO in a way that has yet to be accomplished, but still be true to lore. I dont completely understand all of their crafting skills (still looking for source material there) but wand crafting and recharging seems to be a skill of theirs. While Lei was able to repair Daine's sword in the story, she was only able to repair his chain shirt by stretching the links thinner. I'm sure a more skilled Artificer, with some access to materials, could repair DDO's 'permanent' damage. She was also able to manipulate warforged. She repaired two badly damaged warforged with her abilities, and she reduced another to scrap with a touch. I'm sure summoning powerful constructs and augmenting (read buffing for DDO) them would be a class skill.

    I dont play PnP, so I am not sure what roles they traditionally take there.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    The most common role Artificers take in PnP is as secondary casters/Trap Monkeys in game. RP wise, they and the Mage Wrights are responsible for all the minor wonderous items the populace of Eberron use every day ( Everbright Lanterns, Lightning Rail, etc)

    Their ability to make limited use magic items on the fly ( Rings, wands etc ) make them excellent support for just about any party.

    The artificer from the Eberron Campaign Setting represents an approach to magic that's a little different from spellcasting as presented in the Player's Handbook. To an artificer, magic is neither arcane nor divine but a force to be captured and infused into items. At the core, an artificer is a master of gadgets. That's just the beginning, however. Your artificer can be a cool-headed problem solver, an ascetic philosopher, a cunning explorer, a magical dilettante, or a combat magician. It all depends on what kind of character you want to play and what sort of magical gadgetry you collect and use.

    Artificer Assets

    An artificer can use almost any magic item and often can modify a magic item on the spot or create a temporary item as needed. An artificer has a few other tricks as well. Here's an overview of the artificer's powers.

    * Infusions: Artificers don't cast spells. Instead, they wield infusions, which imbue magical power into items both mundane and magical. Though an infusion isn't a spell, it works just like a spell in game terms.

    There's a limit to the number of infusions you can use each day, but you can use any infusion from the artificer class list (your level permitting) without preparing it ahead of time. Better yet, you can learn new infusions that aren't on the normal artificer class list just by studying the infusion and making a Spellcraft check (albeit a fairly difficult one). This allows you personalize your infusion list somewhat.

    * High Skill Points: Artificers gain four skill points per level -- a respectable total. In addition, artificers usually have high Intelligence scores (because Intelligence governs their ability to use infusions), and a high Intelligence score boosts the number of skill points you have available.

    * Good Will Saves: An artificer uses the best progression for Will saves (see Table 3-1 in the Player's Handbook). This helps the artificer resist most effects that attack or fool his mind or assault his spirit, such as charms, compulsions, illusions, fear, and even inflict wounds spells.

    * Fair Weapon Selection: The artificer is proficient only with simple weaponry. Simple weapons aren't the most deadly available, but having access to the whole category gives you plenty of options should your magic fail you.

    * Fair Armor Selection: The artificer is proficient with light and medium armor and shields (but not tower shields). Medium armor provides good protection (though not the best), but it's far better than what many spell wielders (especially arcane casters) generally can use. A shield always is handy for a few extra points of Armor Class.

    * Fair Attack Bonus: An artificer's base attack bonus is +3 per four levels, which is second only to the more martial classes such as the fighter. If you decide to enter combat, you can do pretty well.

    * Item Creation: Though not a spellcaster, an artificer has several abilities that allow him to create magic items of various kinds. An artificer can employ the Use Magic Device skill to emulate spell prerequisites an item might have (and nonspell prerequisites, too). An artificer gains the Scribe Scroll feat at 1st level and gains other item creation feats as he gains artificer levels: Brew Potion at 2nd level, Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level, Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th level, Craft Wand at 7th level, Craft Rod at 9th level, Craft Staff at 12th level, and Forge Ring at 14th level.

    At each artificer level, the character gains a small pool of points he can spend instead of experience points when making magic items (this class feature is called the craft reserve). Starting at 5th level, an artificer also can scavenge the experience points others have spent creating magic items and use them to create items of his own.

    * Artificer Knowledge: Starting at 1st level, an artificer can make a special check (d20 + artificer level + Intelligence modifier) to determine whether a particular item has a magical aura.

    * Artisan Bonus: Also starting at 1st level, an artificer gains a +2 bonus on any Use Magic Device check he makes to activate a magic item for which he has the corresponding item creation feat.

    * Disable Trap: An artificer can use the Search skill to locate traps with Search DCs higher than 20 and can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magical traps.

    * Bonus Feats: In addition to the item creation feats he gains, an artificer gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be chosen from the list in the artificer class description.

    * Craft Homunculus: At 4th level, an artificer can create a homunculus. The artificer doesn't need the Craft Construct feat, but the artificer does have to emulate the spell prerequisites for crafting a homunculus with the Use Magic Device skill and must pay for the cost of construction as noted in the artificer class description. Whenever the artificer has the time and money, he can upgrade an existing homunculus, so long as he can pay for the upgrade and the homunculus's total hit dice don't exceed the artificer's hit dice -2.

    * Metamagic Spell Trigger: Starting at 6th level, an artificer can apply a metamagic feat he knows to a spell effect from a spell trigger item he activates. Doing so drains extra charges from the item equal to the level increase that the metamagic feat normally imposes. If the spell trigger item does not have charges, this power does not work.

    The artificer also must have the item creation feat corresponding to the item he is using (for example, craft wand to apply a metamagic feat to a spell effect from a wand).

    * Skill Mastery: Beginning at 13th level, an artificer always can take 10 when making a Spellcraft or Use Magic Device check.

    Artificer Weaknesses

    There are a few drawbacks to being an artificer, and it pays to consider them when thinking about an artificer character.

    * Infusions: You have access to the entire artificer infusion list, but don't get too excited. The list doesn't have much depth. The vast majority of infusions grant fairly minor powers to items you or another creature use (a few higher-level infusions create objects or barriers). Infusions also tend to have long casting times (one minute is a typical casting time), which means a battle probably will be over by the time you finish casting. At the same time, most infusions don't last all that long (10 minutes per caster level is a typical casting time). This means you must cast your infusions in advance, but not so far in advance that they expire before having an impact on play.

    * Item Dependence: Infusions lack offensive punch, and they don't have much potential to affect your environment, either. If you want the kind of power and flexibility that true spellcasters have, you'll need to load up on magic items. Because you have no true spellcasting ability, however, you must rely on the Use Magic Device skill if you want to use spell completion and spell trigger items, which tend to be the most affordable. You can ease your burden somewhat by using your class abilities to make your own items, but doing that takes time and money (and experience points once your pool of class reserve points is gone).

    * Poor Reflex and Fortitude saves: Artificers have the worst progression for Reflex and Will saves (see Table 3-1 in the Player's Handbook). Artificers aren't so great at avoiding attacks on their bodies.
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    Community Member Doxmaster's Avatar
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    Ok...just in a random order...

    Why do we need a pure class version of a multiclass that does its job very very well?

    D&D crafting isnt in game yet and probably never will be. And thus, we have a problem; no one would ever agree to having Artificers use the current crafting system at will, yet crafting is a very large part of the class (wizards almost suffer this, but all of the extra feats they have can instead go towards metamagic).

    If D&D crafting was added and crafted items were bound to player, it will be useless. If they were bound to account, it will lead to 1 craftsman per account for everyone. Unbound leads to bad things; we will certainly end up with guilds buying craftsmen that will pike their way to 20 and then make items for their sponsor guild. There will likely be endless /tell spam as well: "Make me a +5 kopesh of everything-burst and vorpal or I'll blacklist!" anyone?

    Infusion casting time; 1 minute is too long for anyone to wait for a buff. It isnt exactly uncommon to see a melee get a single buff, then charge forward, missing the next 5 ones. Unless the infusion lasts through quests, resting and such, no one would use those unless its quickened and the cooldown would mean only 1 person would probably get that buff.

    Also, you made a mistake regarding saves. At first, you say they have a great will save, but poor reflex and fort saves. Then you say they have poor reflex and will saves.

    Homonculus- a class pet is almost useless in a game were all pets kinda suck. Look at pale masters; if people complain the pale master skeletons are horrible and that summon monster pets are bad and that the irom defenders are attrocious, how would this little creature do in a combat based game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doxmaster View Post
    Homonculus- a class pet is almost useless in a game were all pets kinda suck. Look at pale masters; if people complain the pale master skeletons are horrible and that summon monster pets are bad and that the irom defenders are attrocious, how would this little creature do in a combat based game?
    That's quite true: a naive implementation of Craft Homonculus would be either terrible, or just pointless.

    However, with some serious effort by the designers it could be changed into a valuable and distinctive feature. I have previously suggested ways to give Artificer the "pet class" role from MMORPGs.

    In general, it'd be like this:
    • After a few levels the Artificer gains the ability to construct a Homonculous. At higher levels you can have more of them, but only one can be active at a time; the others wait in extradimensional space.
    • Advancing in level unlocks different body types you can choose for the homon, which serve slightly different combat roles. The basic is a dog robot, but mechanical spiders and humanoids come later.
    • Advancing in level gives you crafting points to spend improving the homon, much like how APs are spent by player characters. The homon can be respeced at an Artificer trainer for a plat cost.
    • A homon can be given the Buff Link ability, where beneficial spells cast on either the Artificer or the homon effect both of them.
    • The player can (and should) attach docents and handwraps to the homon to buff its combat power. Even powerful named items can be worn by the homon. (Maybe it can also use belts or necklaces, but not the whole list of body slots). The player can choose to swap the items on the homon very rapidly, even in the middle of combat.
    • Instead of being a stupid pet, the homon can be controlled more like a hireling. The artificer gets granted class feats which give the homon commands such as to stay, follow, attack, or use a special ability (which you can customize when building the homon).
    • Here's the important part: at around level 10-12 the Artificer gains a Mind Link ability to assume direct control of the homon. Activating that granted icon actually shifts the player's view to controlling the homon directly, so your mouse and WASD inputs move it around. While that effect is active the regular homon control icons will instead direct the activities of the Artificer. In addition, using icons for active abilities possessed by the Artificer (such as casting spells) will make that character do them, without you needing to switch back and forth.
    • There can be some kind of range limit preventing the homon from being too far away from the artificer for more than a limited number of seconds.


    So how it comes out is that the Artificer class is a bit like allowing a player to play two characters at once. You can bind a key to instantly swap between them, and in high-level battles the typical use will be to have the player controlling the homonculous in battle while the artificer follows along healing and buffing (and maybe also autoattacking with his repeater).

    Note that spending that kind of developer effort on pets for existing classes wouldn't make sense, because those classes already should be decently balanced without having useful pets. It's important that Artificers be given some additional power along these lines, because what they do have doesn't provide enough to do in dungeons.

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    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That's quite true: a naive implementation of Craft Homonculus would be either terrible, or just pointless.

    However, with some serious effort by the designers it could be changed into a valuable and distinctive feature. I have previously suggested ways to give Artificer the "pet class" role from MMORPGs.

    In general, it'd be like this:
    • After a few levels the Artificer gains the ability to construct a Homonculous. At higher levels you can have more of them, but only one can be active at a time; the others wait in extradimensional space.
    • Advancing in level unlocks different body types you can choose for the homon, which serve slightly different combat roles. The basic is a dog robot, but mechanical spiders and humanoids come later.
    • Advancing in level gives you crafting points to spend improving the homon, much like how APs are spent by player characters. The homon can be respeced at an Artificer trainer for a plat cost.
    • A homon can be given the Buff Link ability, where beneficial spells cast on either the Artificer or the homon effect both of them.
    • The player can (and should) attach docents and handwraps to the homon to buff its combat power. Even powerful named items can be worn by the homon. (Maybe it can also use belts or necklaces, but not the whole list of body slots). The player can choose to swap the items on the homon very rapidly, even in the middle of combat.
    • Instead of being a stupid pet, the homon can be controlled more like a hireling. The artificer gets granted class feats which give the homon commands such as to stay, follow, attack, or use a special ability (which you can customize when building the homon).
    • Here's the important part: at around level 10-12 the Artificer gains a Mind Link ability to assume direct control of the homon. Activating that granted icon actually shifts the player's view to controlling the homon directly, so your mouse and WASD inputs move it around. While that effect is active the regular homon control icons will instead direct the activities of the Artificer. In addition, using icons for active abilities possessed by the Artificer (such as casting spells) will make that character do them, without you needing to switch back and forth.
    • There can be some kind of range limit preventing the homon from being too far away from the artificer for more than a limited number of seconds.


    So how it comes out is that the Artificer class is a bit like allowing a player to play two characters at once. You can bind a key to instantly swap between them, and in high-level battles the typical use will be to have the player controlling the homonculous in battle while the artificer follows along healing and buffing (and maybe also autoattacking with his repeater).

    Note that spending that kind of developer effort on pets for existing classes wouldn't make sense, because those classes already should be decently balanced without having useful pets. It's important that Artificers be given some additional power along these lines, because what they do have doesn't provide enough to do in dungeons.
    I really like this idea.
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  14. #14
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doxmaster View Post
    Ok...just in a random order...

    Why do we need a pure class version of a multiclass that does its job very very well?
    The multiclass thing was mostly an illustration on my part. I was trying to show that the concept of the Artificer was already ingame. In reality, rog/wiz builds dont play like artificers, they play like wizards. From what I understand, artificers play more like rogues with high UMD skills.

    D&D crafting isnt in game yet and probably never will be. And thus, we have a problem; no one would ever agree to having Artificers use the current crafting system at will, yet crafting is a very large part of the class (wizards almost suffer this, but all of the extra feats they have can instead go towards metamagic).
    I agree. I think the crafting aspect would be the single biggest challenge for the class. However, being able to infuse spells into gear is easily the most important aspect from a DDO standpoint.

    If D&D crafting was added and crafted items were bound to player, it will be useless. If they were bound to account, it will lead to 1 craftsman per account for everyone. Unbound leads to bad things; we will certainly end up with guilds buying craftsmen that will pike their way to 20 and then make items for their sponsor guild. There will likely be endless /tell spam as well: "Make me a +5 kopesh of everything-burst and vorpal or I'll blacklist!" anyone?
    I think either binding them to account or making the item temporary to a dungeon instance (like the paladin skill as mentioned in a linked thread) would be the most viable solution. From what it sounds like, the second would also be the most true to the spirit of PnP.

    Infusion casting time; 1 minute is too long for anyone to wait for a buff. It isnt exactly uncommon to see a melee get a single buff, then charge forward, missing the next 5 ones. Unless the infusion lasts through quests, resting and such, no one would use those unless its quickened and the cooldown would mean only 1 person would probably get that buff.
    Luckily DDO is modified 3.5. Many aspects of combat are not true to the PnP rules.

    Also, you made a mistake regarding saves. At first, you say they have a great will save, but poor reflex and fort saves. Then you say they have poor reflex and will saves.

    Homonculus- a class pet is almost useless in a game were all pets kinda suck. Look at pale masters; if people complain the pale master skeletons are horrible and that summon monster pets are bad and that the irom defenders are attrocious, how would this little creature do in a combat based game?
    I like Angelus's reply, even if it does require everything the devs have promised to date for summoned creatures.
    In Green.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
    Dee Hock

  15. #15
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    That's quite true: a naive implementation of Craft Homonculus would be either terrible, or just pointless.

    However, with some serious effort by the designers it could be changed into a valuable and distinctive feature. I have previously suggested ways to give Artificer the "pet class" role from MMORPGs.

    In general, it'd be like this:
    • After a few levels the Artificer gains the ability to construct a Homonculous. At higher levels you can have more of them, but only one can be active at a time; the others wait in extradimensional space.
    • Advancing in level unlocks different body types you can choose for the homon, which serve slightly different combat roles. The basic is a dog robot, but mechanical spiders and humanoids come later.
    • Advancing in level gives you crafting points to spend improving the homon, much like how APs are spent by player characters. The homon can be respeced at an Artificer trainer for a plat cost.
    • A homon can be given the Buff Link ability, where beneficial spells cast on either the Artificer or the homon effect both of them.
    • The player can (and should) attach docents and handwraps to the homon to buff its combat power. Even powerful named items can be worn by the homon. (Maybe it can also use belts or necklaces, but not the whole list of body slots). The player can choose to swap the items on the homon very rapidly, even in the middle of combat.
    • Instead of being a stupid pet, the homon can be controlled more like a hireling. The artificer gets granted class feats which give the homon commands such as to stay, follow, attack, or use a special ability (which you can customize when building the homon).
    • Here's the important part: at around level 10-12 the Artificer gains a Mind Link ability to assume direct control of the homon. Activating that granted icon actually shifts the player's view to controlling the homon directly, so your mouse and WASD inputs move it around. While that effect is active the regular homon control icons will instead direct the activities of the Artificer. In addition, using icons for active abilities possessed by the Artificer (such as casting spells) will make that character do them, without you needing to switch back and forth.
    • There can be some kind of range limit preventing the homon from being too far away from the artificer for more than a limited number of seconds.


    So how it comes out is that the Artificer class is a bit like allowing a player to play two characters at once. You can bind a key to instantly swap between them, and in high-level battles the typical use will be to have the player controlling the homonculous in battle while the artificer follows along healing and buffing (and maybe also autoattacking with his repeater).

    Note that spending that kind of developer effort on pets for existing classes wouldn't make sense, because those classes already should be decently balanced without having useful pets. It's important that Artificers be given some additional power along these lines, because what they do have doesn't provide enough to do in dungeons.
    A_D
    why does that remind me of Puppeteer?
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  16. #16
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    After a bunch of searching I came up with an infusion (artificer spell list) list.
    Not too sure how accurate it is and keep in mind, many of the infusions will be altered or left out
    due to DDO mechnics...and they may add a few to fill in the blanks.

    here is the link

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Artificer_Infusions

    The size of the list and other class abilities kinda feel like a bard style class. But not a bard, of course.
    as far as constructing pets...my money is on iron defender types...lets hope, without the grease ability.

    To add Artificers they will need to revamp meta magic feats or the class will end up gimped, a large
    amount of thier flexability is based on the skill of using meta feats with magic items...something not
    currently supported in game.

    It does not appear that artificers will need to worry about spell failure ( except for scrolls) so
    fighter might be a common 'splash'.

    Artificers can also 'learn' new infusions - translation, they can learn other arcane or divine spells..not
    sure how they plan on doing that, perhaps they are allowed in inscribe a scroll to thier spell list
    if thier UMD skill is high enuff to use the scroll with no chance of failure. Do keep in mind that
    they will get class based bonuses for UMD. But we will just have to see how they address that.

    well that is my take on it
    have a good one

    oh, one note....1 minute casting times.....never going to happen. The game population would scream. It will prob be the same as a wizard, they might
    gimp it a little and make them uneffected by quicken..but that would be about it.
    Last edited by fatherpirate; 08-09-2011 at 08:41 AM.

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