Epic Shard Handoff - Cool or not Cool?

[shablala]

Your toon is "Rejist" in the guild of the "Dragon Order of Arcanix", i'll keep that in mind.

-Thanks

What server pls? and who cares about the toon, just put the whole guild on DNP if that's their style.

[Folonius]

So much hate in this thread over a game and digital objects ....

Players A and B want...a +1 longsword. Or Whatever it is you guys have drama over. We dont really have drama in these parts.
Player A has one friend in the group (lets say it was a normal group of 6 for simplicity) while player B is all alone and doesnt know anyone in the group at all. Player A's friend is Player C.

LOOTOWNER says: "Roll for the sword." Standard statement. No one will draw up a legal contract for loot, whether it is uber or not. His statement is short and simple; He is implying that he does not want this sword and would rather let others do something with it than, say, vender it. This does not state WHO may roll for it, or for WHAT reason. If you roll for it, then decide to vender trash it, good for you (Not that anyone on cannith would do that.) If you roll for it, then make a Monk longsword master, good for you. If you roll for it, to have something to take up invantory slot 67, good for you.

So, player A asks player C to also roll. This is friendship. If you have extra pizza and your friend would like pizza, you give some pizza to the friend. This is one of the perks of having a friend; sharing, trust, love and pizza.

So player A, B and C all roll. C wins. He recieves the loot. He then says "I wish to give my loot to my friend, since he would benifit from this." No ninja loot tricks. No smoke grenades and silly dances. While player B feels sad that he did not win the roll, he feels happy for the guy that did get it and he now thinks about bringing a friend along on the next run. Players D, E and LOOTOWNER don't care. At all. Ever.

Player A now has the +1 longsword. If the group has nothing else to do, they might run the quest again. If not, then player B will get his chance another day. Perhaps then, he will have a friend in the group, allowing him to skew things in his favor. Perhaps not.
That's it.

We arent saints, but we also dont blacklist people for having friends. Sometimes, the loot doesnt go up for roll. Sometimes its just passed away. OWNER to player D, to player E to player C to player E again until someone accepts it. Most send it to guild mates first, of course. If you have pizza, you offer it to friends before strangers usually.

Five people, all with the same guild sig, means that 4 people might be helping 1 to get the longsword he's always wanted. Which is ok. If you walk into a party and someone else runs in with 6 slices of pizza, you should know that the guy's friends have a much better chance at getting a slice than some random dude (IE, you). The slices might already be reserved. But if they arent...delicious pizza could be yours!

QFT .... If a Sword of the Babbot Maelstrom drops or a dagger +1 drops, and one of my friends/guildies wants it, I'll help them get it ... It's that simple ... Don't join my runs, don't accept my invites, or don't give me your items that I roll for and win ... idc, I have no problem with it.I have no intention of recipricating the hate. If something happens in game, ie monster leading to cause a party wipe, jumping though the portal in a VoD run to intentially lock out the rest of the party, or any other harrassing action, I'll file a harrassment ticket, squelch the person, and leave it at that.

For those of you who don't know what a Sword of the Babbot Maelstrom is ....

The Sword of Babette Maelstrom XP Value: 1,000,000 GP Value: 10,000,000 "Babette's formidable weapon is a long sword +5, +10 vs. regenerating creatures, and +15 vs. dragons. Once a year, the sword can: -Cause an explosion, 200-foot radius, 200d100 (200-20,000) points of damage. -Create a sphere of force, as per the wall of force spell; and dispel magic at the 45th level

[Pape_27]

So much hate in this thread over a game and digital objects ....

I call shenanigans.

If its so inconsequential why be an epeni about it and rip someone off?



_

[shablala]

So much hate in this thread over a game and digital objects ....


QFT .... If a Sword of the Babbot Maelstrom drops or a dagger +1 drops, and one of my friends/guildies wants it, I'll help them get it ... It's that simple ... Don't join my runs, don't accept my invites, or don't give me your items that I roll for and win ... idc, I have no problem with it.I have no intention of recipricating the hate. If something happens in game, ie monster leading to cause a party wipe, jumping though the portal in a VoD run to intentially lock out the rest of the party, or any other harrassing action, I'll file a harrassment ticket, squelch the person, and leave it at that.

For those of you who don't know what a Sword of the Babbot Maelstrom is ....

Then go play an offline game with your buddies. If you want to play an MMO and interact with the rest of the world, follow some common sense rules of fairness and etiquette, or be called out as cheat or inconsiderate jerk. You cant have it both ways. No one is forcing you to be considerate to others, but warn others ahead of time so they know who they are running with. Then we're all happy and no one is hating.

[Krag]

I've done this for guildies, and I've had other guildies in other guilds do this for each other with loot that I put up for roll. I consider it a benefit of being in a guild, and running with multiple guildies. If I'm in a ToD run, and 8 people are guildies and 4 aren't, and a non guildie gets an item, puts it up for roll, and one of the 8 people in the guild wants the item, I'll roll for that item to help out my guildie. If I get loot and there are guildies with me in that run, I let them have first grabs at it.

I will bend over backwards for any of my friends and guildies in game.

At least you are being fair about your intentions. Not like someone who waits untill people recall and covers his shady business with blatant lie.

[Folonius]

Then go play an offline game with your buddies.

Please elaborate. I'm not sure what playing something offline has anything to do with loot rolling.

If you want to play an MMO and interact with the rest of the world, follow some common sense rules of fairness and etiquette, or be called out as cheat or inconsiderate jerk.

You mean your rules of fairness and etiquette? I have one simple rule. Treat others as you would want to be treated. I follow this in real life, and I try to follow it in MMO's. I'll be more than happy to debate philosophy with you.

Everyone has a right to just treatment according to how the person viewing thinks they should recieve just treatment. In this respect, you are correct and I am correct because each individual has a different outlook as to how they want to be treated. You believe I shouldn't help friends get items they want, but I believe it's perfectly acceptable. If I get loot, I will always ask friends in the group through private PM's if they want it. After that I'll put it up for roll and give it to whoever wants it. I don't care where it goes after that.

If you want to make sure someone gets a specific item, then send them PM's and ask them to roll on it. If you get a Bards Cloak and there are two bards in the group, ask them if they need it before you put it up for roll. If you just put the bards cloak up for roll, and a bard, an FvS, and a fighter roll on it, the fighter wins, and then passes it to the FvS, who cares. It was the decision of the person who got the item to give it to the fighter. I was in this situation, and I was the bard. It didn't bother me in the least.

To call someone else a jerk based on their ethical views is bigotry. Has anyone ever entered a raffle just to try to get something for another person? Same thing. I've entered raffles for a prize basket full of baby accessories to try and win for my sister who recently had a baby. I didn't win it, but it's very similar albiet in a real world situation.

You cant have it both ways.

What both ways are you referring to?

No one is forcing you to be considerate to others,

I am always considerate of others. The problem arises where I can't be considerate to everyone. ie you can't make everyone happy.

[stainer]

-snip-

Having guildies roll on loot is not accepted by commonly held standards. 1 roll per person is fair, and held to by major guilds. It is what is expected by everyone in a raid on items put up for roll. You can do as you want in your raids, but I feel like you may be treading on dangerous ground with this viewpoint. I would be very up front about this belief when you join a raid. example - Tubby McLardDwarf needs tharnes googles. If I win the roll I am giving them to him. This example would be a fair way to do it.

[Folonius]

Having guildies roll on loot is not accepted by commonly held standards. 1 roll per person is fair, and held to by major guilds. It is what is expected by everyone in a raid on items put up for roll. You can do as you want in your raids, but I feel like you may be treading on dangerous ground with this viewpoint. I would be very up front about this belief when you join a raid. example - Tubby McLardDwarf needs tharnes googles. If I win the roll I am giving them to him. This example would be a fair way to do it.

I understand some people have different views on this, and is a very contreversial subject. I always ask said guildie/friend if they want me to roll on it too before I roll on the item though. I suppose I can tell the person who got the item as well.

[KiwiJoe]

Epic DQ2 tonight:

Shard drops.
A and B roll off, A is higher.
C (Guildmate of B) then rolls, wins, and is passed the shard.
C and B wait until everyone recalls.
C passes shard to B.

(Waited and took screenshots of the transaction.)

What's the consensus on this kind of situation?

Exactly the reason why I prefer to sell my unwanted loot. At least then you know the person getting it REALLY wants it and it won't rot in the bank. D100 is open to abuse from greedy mo-fo's who can't help but grab at anything on offer.

[emptysands]

Exactly the reason why I prefer to sell my unwanted loot. At least then you know the person getting it REALLY wants it and it won't rot in the bank. D100 is open to abuse from greedy mo-fo's who can't help but grab at anything on offer.

That's an interesting point. If DDO had a bid system whereby loot could be sold out of the chest in some trusted fashion then it might work. Of course if the present system we'd be getting posts about the flip side - people being paid and not switching or more likely people not caring about other toons and just looting and then vendoring.

Personally I have my loot rules: 1. me first, 2. friends/guildies second, 3. obvious need, 4. "I don't care but dont assume you'll get it since I can vendor it as well".

Like any social system there are good and bad spots.

[Angelus_dead]

Double rolling on items is disgraceful, and leads to should lead to listing IMO.

I advocate your loot is your loot.

But that's self-contradictory.

To say "your loot is your loot" implies that if an item is in the chest with your name on it, you can do whatever you want with it. That would include passing it along to a friend after you won it in a roll.

This dispute arises because when most people say "Roll 1d100 for shard", what they really mean is "Roll 1d100 if you want to loot this shard into your inventory". It would take too long to spell it out fully, but that leaves ambiguity there for a person to double-up the rolls of his buddy.

[stainer]

I understand some people have different views on this, and is a very contreversial subject. I always ask said guildie/friend if they want me to roll on it too before I roll on the item though. I suppose I can tell the person who got the item as well.

That would be awesome and would not lead to issues.

[Fafnir]

These sorts of things don't have right answers. I think all you can do is not worry about it.

If you roll the highest on something put up for roll and then don't get it, that's a problem.

[Aussieee]

Exactly the reason why I prefer to sell my unwanted loot. At least then you know the person getting it REALLY wants it and it won't rot in the bank. D100 is open to abuse from greedy mo-fo's who can't help but grab at anything on offer.

I if wanted to buy loot it's way better to hire a plat farmer guild to do the run for you and you get a 12 chances of what you want......wonder if there is such service lol.

[LawfulGood]

Every time I put up an unwanted piece of raid loot or epic ingredient up for roll and it's re-assigned, I finish out, say my goodbyes to the group, and leave party. I've never watched if it was re-allocated, sold, re-rolled, looted, or left in the chest. I didn't want it, and don't care what was done with it after it left my possession. That item now has a new owner, and what he or she does with it is up to them.

[Waukeen]

But that's self-contradictory.

To say "your loot is your loot" implies that if an item is in the chest with your name on it, you can do whatever you want with it. That would include passing it along to a friend after you won it in a roll.

This dispute arises because when most people say "Roll 1d100 for shard", what they really mean is "Roll 1d100 if you want to loot this shard into your inventory". It would take too long to spell it out fully, but that leaves ambiguity there for a person to double-up the rolls of his buddy.

Let me further explain myself then.

Your loot is what literally drops for you in the chest.

If you roll on something and win, you must take it or bow out and reassign to next highest roll.

A roll is a social contract IMO. Double rolling for a friend, betrays the trust that the loot owner had in allowing a roll of any type. (friends only, guild only, class restricted, etc.)

Moreover, if a player wins tharne's goggles via roll for instance, then a late rolling toon that already has them high rolls and passes to someone that lost their shot.

That is disgraceful, and a form of unscrupulous play.

To me there really isn't much ambiguity because adhereing to a roll is common conduct.

It is evidenced by how people who do this either make the shift super fast and drop group, or wait until almost everyone has left. They know it is wrong and make a childish attempt to cover their tracks, or beat it out of there.

[Delt]

After a little reflection on the thread, perhaps there should be an option on the dropdown menu that allows you to transfer ownership to another player of a /roll.

Once you've selected this you'd get an option to roll appearing on all other players in the group. You could either choose to roll or not. The game would then look from highest to lowest of the rolls made and offer one at a time the chance to accept the ownership of the item.

Not sure where it would come in the priorities of the game but it does seem to appear in the forum and threads fairly regularly and that kind of change shouldn't be any more complicated than the original loot distribution changes made years ago.

Haven't bothered reading the whole thread, but all these issues would be simply solved by allowing the transfer-in-chest-pull-down menu to only work for the original item puller (and stay active even after loot is transferred). In effect, it would:

- prevent shady /rolling practices
- allow reassignment due to mistakes/late rolls (I always misassign stuff and it sucks when they are no longer in the raid)

Two main issues, easily cleared up with a simple change.

Back on topic - ya, it's shady and lame.

[k0ukla]

I've read the first few pages and the last page - the biggest problem with what happened here is the sneakiness of said players, guildies do come first for lots of things - but i would never roll on something then pass it down to someone i'll only roll if i want the item.

It was not good etiquette plain and simple.

[AyumiAmakusa]

I've read the first few pages and the last page - the biggest problem with what happened here is the sneakiness of said players, guildies do come first for lots of things - but i would never roll on something then pass it down to someone i'll only roll if i want the item.

It was not good etiquette plain and simple.

Yes, blacklist and move on. The only way to punish sneaky players is to never run with them again. Hey, if they like to roll for guildies, it's their choice. Just don't expect to be invited into one of my runs ever again.

[HumanJHawkins]

But that's self-contradictory.

To say "your loot is your loot" implies that if an item is in the chest with your name on it, you can do whatever you want with it. That would include passing it along to a friend after you won it in a roll.

It depends. Your loot is your loot unless you make a deal to the contrary. If you join a group under a deal where some piece of loot goes to some particular person, then you made that deal and should stick to it.

By the same token, if you roll for something under the pretense that you can't roll for someone else, then you should stick to that as well.

In this case, the sneaking around shows that the players involved knew the deal and were conspiring to commit fraud. Circumstantial, but enough to win a civil suit. And way more than enough to win in the court of public opinion.

All of this lawyering is academic though. The bottom line is, they were being ass-clowns.