Game needs to consider battle clerics more

[Karavek]

Now I have not ever posted much in these forums as casters be they divine or arcane are not something I have done much in DDO over the years. Not that I dont revel in the awesome power of magic in D&D, but I just never found the spell point system very appealing, and alot of other **** that cost me way to much time giving casters here in DDO a fair shot.

I have seen no shortage of powerful casters in DDO over the years. Sorcerers who can walk through quests killing everything before even an archers arrows can land. I have seen the wizards who thanks to long documented knowledge can have every ideal spell for every situation. I have seen the well designed multi classers who can weave skills like trapping, and combat skillfully together creating hybrids I myself appreciate far more then pure classes and the easy power they get thanks to capstone feats.

Of recently Ive begun to explore the divine caster more in the cleric class. However I had no interest in being a healing/buffing type. At least not for anyone but myself. Like only a few here seem to preach, I knew from my years on the tabletop that those who try here in DDO to claim that healbot/supportbot are a clerics only uses are either delusional, or greedy pigs trying to spread a narrow minded view designed to subjicate an entire class to suit thier personal idea of how a cleric should be used, based largely on an MMO like WoW which though is in its own way a fine game, is not one I think DDO should be taking any lessons from, rather drawing from the many FTP MMO out there in thier design which focusses on fast fun battles vs big drag out smack down things usually.

Here we clerics are not just healers, but killers of the first order. We can wield a weapon and witha few simple spells remove what little seperates our base class ability and quickly surpass any fighter or barbarian(rangers and paladins are touched by the divine and our allies so we need not concern them. Healing is something any class can do for itself with simple coin, or a well designed build. Sure clerics can help be the back up for when **** goes bad, in PnP many spells existed to allow a cleric to evade and recover.

I ranted all the above to make my view clear. Battle clerics should be the rule not the exception and this game needs more in game love for those who persue our art of dvine retribution. For example take this last festival. Weapon users could add frost and ciy burst to favored weapons creating some very potent new items in our world that some may be considered even beyond epic named, and green steels.

Arcane casters gained the chance to forge both wand and with good luck in House D or the AH to find the right base, put together what some could say may be the most potent caster artifacts in the game especially for when dealing with fire based foes(Ms Red Dragon anyone?)

But what could clerics enjoy having, a few stockpiles of candy canes for self healing in between fights, and to hand out to cheap warrior types who cant be bothered to spend plat on pots. Even though a festival that seems to reflect xmas could well be seen to espouse life, light ,and giving of ones self selflessly.

They could have also had recipes for eternal cure light wands, and so as not to make the weapon upgrade to nasty id say first would maek a weapon into flametouched iron, second would add righteous, and third pure good( or lesser evil bane, either way) these could I feel improve weapons holy warriors would favor but not upgrade a weapon any more potently then icy burst.

Also why not a series to make a really potent light spell booster, or positive energy booster? Both would be nice to have an option to create an ideal caster tool for the support/or battle minded cleric.

Finally I want a greater range of clerical spells that PnP clerics have. In other words our Domains. We could easily see them added as 2 point enhancments taken as easly as lvl 1, limited to two different ones. Gaining the appropriate spell at each new lvl range, as well as the granted benefit. THis is mainly because we currently as clerics lack access to certain element dmg types that could prove especially useful in the same ways wizard/sorcerers and element weapon wielding warriors do.

Now I wont deny clerics are already powerful in DDO, maybe even among the most powerful, but does that mean they should suffer gaps in potential diversity to make each even more unique simply for fear of a cleric having one more dmg spell in a lvl range that might hit some elemental based foe for abit more dmg? will that many stop using blade barriar and flame strike ? I doubt it, but at least a few, especially those who favor battle with thier magic, would appreciate that bit more of an option in developing thier character.

[JollySwagMan]

Phew! That's quite the wall there

You may well be preaching....to the choir... (eeeh, sorry) about preferring not to heal-bot (to the exclusion of anything else). That much may well be granted, this being the Cleric forums :P.

However, regarding battleclerics vs casting focused ones, this really depends upon the party makeup, and sometimes the specific quest/raid (though there are relatively few that demand a specific group). I tend to prefer survivalist builds myself, for ease of soloing/pugging.

On the whole I have found random groups easier to work with by keeping the pace fast and melee oriented, in that it seems easier to organise good melee tactics rather than ensuring a group makes full use of my offensive spells. However this is not always the case, and with static/guild groups I am more willing to play a stricter casting role, with some assurance that those precious spellpoints aren't going to waste. Heck, if running with vets (that actually play like vets :P) I'm happy just to healbot.

Re: festival goodies, yes, some more Cleric-friendly bonus items would be nice. Mind, it seems like there is not much to worth with. Perhaps a weapon enhancement that regens SP upon a natural 20 on some undead/evil outsider. Perhaps potions that increase Spell Penetration for a period of time, like the spell enhancement potions. Actually, I would much prefer simply having Superior Ardor VI potions available from a vendor, this would make battle-clericing just that little bit smoother. It isn't too much hassle using a clickie, but I worry that having to hoard mine means that other less fortunate Clerics are blowing TP/plat on elixirs.


Domains...yes. Clerics need Domains pretty bad.

[shablala]

Of recently Ive begun to explore the divine caster more in the cleric class. However I had no interest in being a healing/buffing type. At least not for anyone but myself.

First of all, and with all due respect to the many years of tabletop experience which I have no idea how that is important, I do not think someone should criticize a class or write an extensive demand list on a class they "just barely explored".

Second, you want to play a toon they can self heal, self buff and be excellent offensive caster? Play a WF Sorc or Wiz. But even then, you will still be expected to pass out quite a list of useful buffs to the party.

Like only a few here seem to preach, I knew from my years on the tabletop that those who try here in DDO to claim that healbot/supportbot are a clerics only uses are either delusional, or greedy pigs trying to spread a narrow minded view designed to subjicate an entire class to suit thier personal idea of how a cleric should be used, based largely on an MMO like WoW which though is in its own way a fine game, is not one I think DDO should be taking any lessons from, rather drawing from the many FTP MMO out there in thier design which focusses on fast fun battles vs big drag out smack down things usually.

First, that's a HUGE sentence :P

Second, this is DDO not DnD and certainly not WoW, which I think you are also not familiar with since WoW has a path for clerics to be completely offensive and not what you just described above.

Third, it is not Pigs who want have personal ideas on how a cleric should be played. LOL I doubt that making such statements will give you any credibility, but that's beside the point. Clerics play a vital if not the most important role in the majority of the game content. Clerics are by far the fastest leveling class in the game, due to their role. Played by an experienced vet, which you should definitely consult, they can be quite effective offensively without sacrificing much of their main role.

Fourth, no one is telling you how to play your cleric. You are just frustrated that the argument against playing a cleric other than "mainly" a healer is actually quite valid, and you do not want to accept it. That's fine too, but you will need to compensate by being a way above average player, and will have to make a name for yourself. You will also need to create your own LFM, and dont worry people will join, where you advertise that you are not the healer. If you think you can pull this off, then all power to you. Otherwise, the class is not for you. And that is not a bad thing.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Of recently Ive begun to explore the divine caster more in the cleric class. However I had no interest in being a healing/buffing type. At least not for anyone but myself.

Those people who think Clerics should just be hea/buff bots are horribly mistaken.

But people who think that Clerics can get away with only healing and buffing themselves are equally as mistaken.

Think about that.

[Impaqt]

A melee only self healing battle cleric can be an exceptional Solo build. Get used to it.

I NEVER ignore my party mates even though most of my divines are considered "Battle Ready" This is a team game and you have the ability to keep people alive. Use it.

[Karavek]

First of all, and with all due respect to the many years of tabletop experience which I have no idea how that is important, I do not think someone should criticize a class or write an extensive demand list on a class they "just barely explored".

Second, you want to play a toon they can self heal, self buff and be excellent offensive caster? Play a WF Sorc or Wiz. But even then, you will still be expected to pass out quite a list of useful buffs to the party.




First, that's a HUGE sentence :P

Second, this is DDO not DnD and certainly not WoW, which I think you are also not familiar with since WoW has a path for clerics to be completely offensive and not what you just described above.

Third, it is not Pigs who want have personal ideas on how a cleric should be played. LOL I doubt that making such statements will give you any credibility, but that's beside the point. Clerics play a vital if not the most important role in the majority of the game content. Clerics are by far the fastest leveling class in the game, due to their role. Played by an experienced vet, which you should definitely consult, they can be quite effective offensively without sacrificing much of their main role.

Fourth, no one is telling you how to play your cleric. You are just frustrated that the argument against playing a cleric other than "mainly" a healer is actually quite valid, and you do not want to accept it. That's fine too, but you will need to compensate by being a way above average player, and will have to make a name for yourself. You will also need to create your own LFM, and dont worry people will join, where you advertise that you are not the healer. If you think you can pull this off, then all power to you. Otherwise, the class is not for you. And that is not a bad thing.

One you should really learn not to speak to your elders as in join date like a flipping newb. You think simply because I have not personally used one much in DDO I havent spent my years in the game watching how others play.

Speaking to them about thier favored tactics, and seeing thier frequently wasted potential in parties, especially pugs where even those who can easily self heal demand that it be the cleric who wastes wands and scrolls once SP runs low.

Yes I am aware of the shadow priest of WoW I infact had a very long term friend who played an eceptional one die in an accident and a major factor in why I no longer have interest in that paticular MMO. I think personally the main difference is that WoW has other classes that can be used primarily as a buffer etc. Paladins there for example in the right caster gear could be used for something very different from the tank role one might assume they are meant to be used as.

Its simply a long known and often seen fact. Teams, especially pugs not merely assume but expect and even demand clerics using thier powers to support the team. Any class be they caster or warrior can use thier build to be more an assistance cahracter. every paladin and ranger could carry loads of wands to whip the battle cleric just as easily as they expect the cleric to do it to them.

Finally the forums are here for anyone to voice thier suggestions about anything in the game they have an idea or feeling about. It however is not actually here simply to be critical of others by playing troll or english teacher. If you have suggestions about something then please put them forth. Aside from that stay off a thread you have 0 value to contribute.

PS battle clerics are THE SOLO class of this game and everyone has long known this and is likely the main reason non clerics want to slander battle clerics so frequently in general and advice in game. When a class every other class feels in need of doesnt need a team or chooses to team among nthemselves for divine company it hurts the cleric not one bit. But the rest well Ive been in my share of no cleric parties and I find them fun mostly because I get to mock all the guys who lack enough pots and wands to survive.

[Karavek]

Phew! That's quite the wall there

You may well be preaching....to the choir... (eeeh, sorry) about preferring not to heal-bot (to the exclusion of anything else). That much may well be granted, this being the Cleric forums :P.

However, regarding battleclerics vs casting focused ones, this really depends upon the party makeup, and sometimes the specific quest/raid (though there are relatively few that demand a specific group). I tend to prefer survivalist builds myself, for ease of soloing/pugging.

On the whole I have found random groups easier to work with by keeping the pace fast and melee oriented, in that it seems easier to organise good melee tactics rather than ensuring a group makes full use of my offensive spells. However this is not always the case, and with static/guild groups I am more willing to play a stricter casting role, with some assurance that those precious spellpoints aren't going to waste. Heck, if running with vets (that actually play like vets :P) I'm happy just to healbot.

Re: festival goodies, yes, some more Cleric-friendly bonus items would be nice. Mind, it seems like there is not much to worth with. Perhaps a weapon enhancement that regens SP upon a natural 20 on some undead/evil outsider. Perhaps potions that increase Spell Penetration for a period of time, like the spell enhancement potions. Actually, I would much prefer simply having Superior Ardor VI potions available from a vendor, this would make battle-clericing just that little bit smoother. It isn't too much hassle using a clickie, but I worry that having to hoard mine means that other less fortunate Clerics are blowing TP/plat on elixirs.


Domains...yes. Clerics need Domains pretty bad.

Atleast one person sees that battle minded clerics need more love in the game. Definatly the domains at the least. Oh and never fear I love a good pun.

[shablala]

One you should really learn not to speak to your elders as in join date like a flipping newb. You think simply because I have not personally used one much in DDO I havent spent my years in the game watching how others play.

Elder? I think you should take off the black hood, the makeup, and put down the fake weapon and armor and step outside of your D&D roleplaying segment. If anyone needs to learn how to speak to anyone it is you my friend. Look at the name calling and BS finger pointing you started out with in the OP.
So all the other clerics that you were "watching" over the years complained to you about the class mechanics and asked you, one who doesnt really have experience with it, to relay the message in a very "eloquent" manner like you did. I see, I'm sorry.

Speaking to them about thier favored tactics, and seeing thier frequently wasted potential in parties, especially pugs where even those who can easily self heal demand that it be the cleric who wastes wands and scrolls once SP runs low.

How does this have anything to do with class mechanics? You're telling me, Mr. Elder, that in all your years playing, you havent ran with good experienced and mature players? one that play their roles well, supporting each other, reimbursing or giving pots to each other, etc...?? well that is certainly not DDO's fault, maybe the pigs that you were originally referring to.

Yes I am aware of the shadow priest of WoW I infact had a very long term friend who played an eceptional one die in an accident and a major factor in why I no longer have interest in that paticular MMO. I think personally the main difference is that WoW has other classes that can be used primarily as a buffer etc. Paladins there for example in the right caster gear could be used for something very different from the tank role one might assume they are meant to be used as.

Ah, good, so your comparison in the OP was just to separate the informed from the uninformed. My fault again.

Its simply a long known and often seen fact. Teams, especially pugs not merely assume but expect and even demand clerics using thier powers to support the team. Any class be they caster or warrior can use thier build to be more an assistance cahracter. every paladin and ranger could carry loads of wands to whip the battle cleric just as easily as they expect the cleric to do it to them.

You are confusing Roles with Classes. If a LFM is looking for a tank, and the Fighter that joins pulls out a bow, you have a serious problem. When the LFM is looking for a caster, and the wizard that joins is playing conan, again there will be a problem. If my LFM says looking for DPS, and your BattleCleric wants to join, I am not gona lie, I will have my doubts, but 9 times out of 10, I will accept and figure why not, at least he is self sufficient. But dont you dare get ****ed off if your BattleCleric joins a group who was looking for a Cleric that actually heals and buffs.
And I will repeat, since you are ignoring half of what I am saying, a good "BattleCleric" will still be able to fulfill a healer/buffer role just fine. In fact it is easier to pull off than a BattleFvS, which is another advantage to a cleric.

Finally the forums are here for anyone to voice thier suggestions about anything in the game they have an idea or feeling about. It however is not actually here simply to be critical of others by playing troll or english teacher. If you have suggestions about something then please put them forth. Aside from that stay off a thread you have 0 value to contribute.

You're absolutely right. But at the same time good manners and politeness will go a lot further than storming in like an angry bull calling people pigs and such. Just because I do not post something that kisses your butt and agrees with you, doesnt mean it has 0 value.

PS battle clerics are THE SOLO class of this game and everyone has long known this and is likely the main reason non clerics want to slander battle clerics so frequently in general and advice in game. When a class every other class feels in need of doesnt need a team or chooses to team among nthemselves for divine company it hurts the cleric not one bit. But the rest well Ive been in my share of no cleric parties and I find them fun mostly because I get to mock all the guys who lack enough pots and wands to survive.

It seems like it is a habit of yours to be in the company of some REALLY awful players. I as well as many others I am sure, have done countless quests from lvl1-20 without Clerics at all, as well as with Clerics that dont heal and buff.
While clerics make excellent SOLO classes, Wizard/Sorc make even better Solo in my opinion. Regardless, if you bothered to analyze the class and see what makes it a good solo class, you will come to the conclusion that it is the self healing and self buffing that put it in that role, the same role you are complaining about.
In fact you admitted in your OP, your style of play is the selfish role. I want my heals and buffs, but only for me, and dont whine and get ****ed off about it, go get your own heals and buffs.

[hero1994]

i agree domains are what made cleric's compete with the FVS there still better clerics dont have nearly as much spell versitility as they should

[Steveohio]

I don't think the game needs to consider battle clerics more. They are already one if not the most powerful builds out there. Its the people that play the game that need to consider battle clerics more. Apparently a rash of level 5 pug "battle clerics" somehow forgot to heal the group has forever created this disdain that a cleric/fvs should only heal, that it is somehow impossible to both fight and heal. Hell, the best healers in this game I've met are all battle healers.

However, I will and have turned down battle healers, that will not heal others. To me, that is a broken build and player. You basically take your best ability(and the best ability in the game) and through it out the window in order to try and fulfill a role, they aren't even good at. You can spot these guys alot of the time based on their names "Ifightnotheal", "wonthealyou", "nottahealer", etc. To me, a well played healer, of any type has the main responsibility of keeping the group going. Its what you do with the time your not actively healing people that sets apart the scrubs from the stars.

I even recently got into a spat with someone in a pug shroud group that apparently, I can't do both heal and dps at the same time. And that he wanted to add a 3rd healer, basically degrating my skills. Guy was supposedly a DPS toon. Pure 20 fighter. No greensteel, No DR breakers, No portal beaters. 400hp and 20-nothing AC. I saw it fit to put him into his place, and demand that the group needed more DPS because he obviously wasn't up to it. Then proceeded to explain how I could do both my primary job(healing the group) as well as secondary functions, such as DPS and buffing, yet this toon was in all effect, a piker. A DPS piking fighter, that can't DPS, trying to explain how its not possible to heal and dps at the same time.

/rant off

However, I will say however that Clerics in general are weaker than Favored Souls when it comes to the melee department. Lower HP, lower SP, lower saves, no racial weapons. However, they have the advantage of better healers and the ability to be more versatile. There are still some very awsome cleric builds out there to be made, probably the best soloing toons in the game.

Clerics need just abit more to put them on par with a properly built FVS. Radiant Servant was a good step in the right direction.

Domains should fix it more... possibly.

The problem is, giving clerics the travel domain(haste) in particular basically will obsolete a whole gambit of different builds. Who wouldn't want to play a self healing, self hasting, self buffing, toon that can both melee and cast offensively?

[Karavek]

I don't think the game needs to consider battle clerics more. They are already one if not the most powerful builds out there. Its the people that play the game that need to consider battle clerics more. Apparently a rash of level 5 pug "battle clerics" somehow forgot to heal the group has forever created this disdain that a cleric/fvs should only heal, that it is somehow impossible to both fight and heal. Hell, the best healers in this game I've met are all battle healers.

However, I will and have turned down battle healers, that will not heal others. To me, that is a broken build and player. You basically take your best ability(and the best ability in the game) and through it out the window in order to try and fulfill a role, they aren't even good at. You can spot these guys alot of the time based on their names "Ifightnotheal", "wonthealyou", "nottahealer", etc. To me, a well played healer, of any type has the main responsibility of keeping the group going. Its what you do with the time your not actively healing people that sets apart the scrubs from the stars.

I even recently got into a spat with someone in a pug shroud group that apparently, I can't do both heal and dps at the same time. And that he wanted to add a 3rd healer, basically degrating my skills. Guy was supposedly a DPS toon. Pure 20 fighter. No greensteel, No DR breakers, No portal beaters. 400hp and 20-nothing AC. I saw it fit to put him into his place, and demand that the group needed more DPS because he obviously wasn't up to it. Then proceeded to explain how I could do both my primary job(healing the group) as well as secondary functions, such as DPS and buffing, yet this toon was in all effect, a piker. A DPS piking fighter, that can't DPS, trying to explain how its not possible to heal and dps at the same time.

/rant off

However, I will say however that Clerics in general are weaker than Favored Souls when it comes to the melee department. Lower HP, lower SP, lower saves, no racial weapons. However, they have the advantage of better healers and the ability to be more versatile. There are still some very awsome cleric builds out there to be made, probably the best soloing toons in the game.

Clerics need just abit more to put them on par with a properly built FVS. Radiant Servant was a good step in the right direction.

Domains should fix it more... possibly.

The problem is, giving clerics the travel domain(haste) in particular basically will obsolete a whole gambit of different builds. Who wouldn't want to play a self healing, self hasting, self buffing, toon that can both melee and cast offensively?

dude you describe bards with that last line pretty well, who usually get yelled at for doing other then back row buffing as well. Calling healing the best ability is silly, its not something unique, anyone can buy healing pots and most are really just short on them when they yell at clerics to heal. Any content that people feel requires a healer to succeed is by my standard poorly made and needs to be rebalanced based on healing items more thena specialized healer who if he does walk among you, the pacifist healing priest as they where known in PnP should be able to seem like an OP force of healing. Ofcourse healing should generate more aggro then anything else but that is another thread about enemy AI really.

[Mister_Peace]

Player needs to consider English classes more.

[Jendrak]

After attempting to read the first few post I have decided....

[cardmj1]

I scanned your wall and all I saw was the following....

I want to melee and heal myself but no one will let me do that .... followed by a .

There are many ways to play every class in this game and any player worth their salt understands this well. The problem is not the class, the enhancements, the spells or the feats; it is the player behind the toon. A cleric is a healer, a caster, melee, and whatever else the party needs (except a rogue unless you multi-classed). That wall (of text) you are hitting is probably the same wall that others are hitting: the lack of skills/flexibility to do what needs to be done to fill the party role. If you are so hard bent on playing only one way (your way), then I suggest you form your own party and lay down the rules for YOUR party. But don't demand that other party leaders must conform to you, it will only lessen your enjoyment of the game.

[Zachski]

After attempting to read the first few post I have decided....

...Does anyone even know what a wall of text is anymore?

Here's a tip: It has to have no paragraphs and be nigh-unreadable to be a wall of text.

Guess what? That post above has several paragraphs. They're even double-spaced between them.

You're just lazy.

[ddobard1]

Play as you want! If you don't like to be a Cleric healer, but prefer to be a Cleric melee, it's fine. The only requirement to stop melleeing is when you need to heal an unconcious Character. Besides that everything is fine. Characters should use heal potions when can't heal themselves. If you don't feel easy to join parties as a battle Cleric, create your own groups through LFM. Don't worry pallets of Characters will join happily a Battle Cleric!

[joneb1999]

I wish everyone was open minded and accepting of the battle cleric and understood you can be an ok fighter and still a really good healer. Unfiortunately after a discussion with my last guild about battle clerics not being any good as only a very few can play them and I disagreed with their views, I then logged on the next day to find myself expelled from the guild, no warning, no indication that I was causing any trouble.

When I asked for an explanation I was told was they didnt like how I played my cleric and that I talked too much but it wasnt personal. I did agree with them I tended to get carried away fighting with my cleric at times (when raids were going really well and my healing wasnt that urgent with other good healers there) and I was trying new tactics with radiant servant bursts and aura, but all I needed was a proper warning to be healer always when partying with them (not subtle hints that went over my head) and they were sure quite happy with my capped barbarian on raids, and the sorceror I was levelling up. I also did bring them in plenty renknown in rewards I could have spent in gear I could use, sell or power energy cells for my gs.

For the record my current cleric is just a melee capable rather than full on battle cleric as I built him to be a decent offensive caster too. I know I can make a real powerful battle cleric and healer with my second tr or gr as there are now mechanics in place to be able to do that when radiant servant was introduced. Its about playing it well too I agree and Im getting that experience and I have plenty of friend in game that are happy with me and I am in two much better guilds now.

[Karavek]

I scanned your wall and all I saw was the following....

I want to melee and heal myself but no one will let me do that .... followed by a .

There are many ways to play every class in this game and any player worth their salt understands this well. The problem is not the class, the enhancements, the spells or the feats; it is the player behind the toon. A cleric is a healer, a caster, melee, and whatever else the party needs (except a rogue unless you multi-classed). That wall (of text) you are hitting is probably the same wall that others are hitting: the lack of skills/flexibility to do what needs to be done to fill the party role. If you are so hard bent on playing only one way (your way), then I suggest you form your own party and lay down the rules for YOUR party. But don't demand that other party leaders must conform to you, it will only lessen your enjoyment of the game.

your little wall was easy enough to read so you must just like trying to attack what is spaced enough to not be called a wall by any real standard.

Never in my post do i complain about others I am directed at the game itself and its lack of items directed more towards aggressive built clerics. Imagine if the only items to increase an arcane casters spell power where repair spell boosters to help heal WFs.

I really dont know where in my post you get my complaining about being expected to play a healer. I made a cleric specifically to solo or play exclusively in my guild as Id never lend my healing power to non elves or elves who are not sworn to my cause as any good RPer should have some standard for.

[Karavek]

...Does anyone even know what a wall of text is anymore?

Here's a tip: It has to have no paragraphs and be nigh-unreadable to be a wall of text.

Guess what? That post above has several paragraphs. They're even double-spaced between them.

You're just lazy.

Plus 1 rep for fighting the grammar nazee

[Karavek]

I wish everyone was open minded and accepting of the battle cleric and understood you can be an ok fighter and still a really good healer. Unfiortunately after a discussion with my last guild about battle clerics not being any good as only a very few can play them and I disagreed with their views, I then logged on the next day to find myself expelled from the guild, no warning, no indication that I was causing any trouble.

When I asked for an explanation I was told was they didnt like how I played my cleric and that I talked too much but it wasnt personal. I did agree with them I tended to get carried away fighting with my cleric at times (when raids were going really well and my healing wasnt that urgent with other good healers there) and I was trying new tactics with radiant servant bursts and aura, but all I needed was a proper warning to be healer always when partying with them (not subtle hints that went over my head) and they were sure quite happy with my capped barbarian on raids, and the sorceror I was levelling up. I also did bring them in plenty renknown in rewards I could have spent in gear I could use, sell or power energy cells for my gs.

For the record my current cleric is just a melee capable rather than full on battle cleric as I built him to be a decent offensive caster too. I know I can make a real powerful battle cleric and healer with my second tr or gr as there are now mechanics in place to be able to do that when radiant servant was introduced. Its about playing it well too I agree and Im getting that experience and I have plenty of friend in game that are happy with me and I am in two much better guilds now.

Now if that is not a tale of betrayel over nothing more then petty intolerance I dont know what is.

Your characters are all of no small ability and to shun you and exile all your characters merely for wanting to play what you want to play, after all that you gained for the guild. THat is shameful conduct on thier part in no small way. At the least some significant restitution for all that you had done should of been offered in a parting letter sent in game.

All because you stood in favor of thinking outside the little white box with a red cross everyone seems to think clerics are designed for. All I can offer is +1 rep for fighting the good fight my fellow holy warrior.