A little Talk about Rogues/multi classing/Skills/Solo

[Rameses]

Corrections in green
Ok, haven't tried the bluff part myself just yet, just forwarding an impression from a THF rogue.

Thanks for presuming to make corrections to my thoughts!

Sentence


I am, Rameses!

[Aschbart]

And this, in a nutshell, is the exact problem that the OP started this thread over.
How on Earth can you claim to correct his thoughts?!?
No correction was needed.

Oh come on now, I did add a wink. Of course I cannot change other people's thoughts. Do I really ned to explain that what I added was simply the difference to what I am thinking?

Ok, next time I'll just add my personal list to the 25 other personal lists already provided. Not.

boring...

[Calebro]

Oh come on now, I did add a wink. Of course I cannot change other people's thoughts. Do I really ned to explain that what I added was simply the difference to what I am thinking?

Ok, next time I'll just add my personal list to the 25 other personal lists already provided. Not.

boring...

Yeah, you did indeed add a wink. I was feeling a bit heated at the moment and missed it. My apologies.

[wax_on_wax_off]

A few necropolis quests come to mind. Tomb of the Tormented and one of the level 8 tombs (the one with > 15 traps).

Anyway it depends on the specific rogue build. There exist some who go with only 8 or 10 intelligence. Even if they max the vital skills it's best to look for someone else for trapsmithing (especially on elite difficulty).

Tomb of the Shadow Knight I think is the one you are referring to. I've done it a few times on normal without a rogue, really, it's no big deal.

On elite it would be fine without a rogue if you have a monk with high evasion or somethign similar to trigger the traps however a rogue will pick up almost 10k of bonus xp i think or something close to that if you can find all the traps.

Even a rogue build with 8 or 10 intelligence should have no problem doing every trap if they have the right gear and invest a few APs into it. After you pass level 12 you can reallocate those APs as traps get easier.

Again, every rogue should be able to do 99% of traps. (Lol, cabal for one, anyone?)
Every rogue should be built for DPS.

It's just that simple. Not one or the other, BOTH.

[DevilButcher]

Wow...

Relax a little and quit clawing at each others reply in here.

This OP was and is new topic, if you really want to cry and rant about my other post please do so on that post. But since you seemed to fallow me in to this one, I'm gussing you got a grudge and not tring the further the OP.

As I said I listen to what you said, what you though was wrong (or good) and you know what I left it at that.

As of this on going thing about the bluff skill... it's just a playstle.
If you don't use ranged combat style, you won't see the use in Rapidfire and Point Blank Shot. Don't go tring to convince me there not good feats.

If you never found use for Bluff, don't come in my post telling me it's weak and a waste...

and let me post what find intresting ablout bluff.

Bluff: I have to say the most misunderstood and confused skill in the game among players in what it does.
1) In a parties only use is an opener to assassinate, but that’s shadows the more appropriate diplomacy skill or many other options to shed the Agro.
2) When you’re alone or in a small party you can greatly take advantage of its mob pulling effect. To do this ONLY works while sneaking, get into range and target the mob you want to pull from the group. They will come leaving the rest behind. Make sure to stay in sneak mode and keep luring him to a safe place outside the proximity view of the mobs. At this time you may dispose of them as you with quickly and saving recourses.
If your creative you can pull objective passing mini bosses.
3) Doing bluff’s trick #2 and no one else is there to attack it an odd effect will happens.
The mob’s melee/ranged targeting will lags, meaning if you keep moving they run/swing/shoot where ever you were 6 seconds ago. Now this is interesting and even lets you run around to there rear and attack them from behind or sides but not very advantageous in melee. Where it shines is with builds that use Ranged combat. Again if you got a repeater you bluff the mob, pull and just move around every now and than and keep shoot they will never hit you once. When you try this you will **** your pants in disbelief how messed up it is to kill a mini boss that take a party and a healer to kill.
Note: this does not effect spells or spell like attack, so this tricks for the big strong things that cleave your ass like trolls and other giants.


One of my main points in this OP was to explain how I feel the skills bluff, hide, move silently, spot are skill for solo rogue playstle. No one in the party will ever care if a rogue has them or not, they have almost no Functional use to the party. So people if you want those skills there completely up to you the player to pick.

[WannaBeDonator]

Hey, guys!
I suppose this question's gonna be a little bit stupid and even an offtop... But... Can anyone tell me plz, where can I find some kinda article about epic traps? Search and disable DCs?

[Winter_storm]

Ouch, the bane of all poor rogues (in my opinion). "Hey everyone if you can tell me where the trap boxes are I'll search and disable them"

You can be an expert in all things rogue and still be one of the most deadly DPS charaters in DDO. All it requires is a little more play skill to handle your character the way rogues were intended by our D&D forefathers and founders.

I am offended when I am on my rogue (Harper) and players start jumping up like jumping beans or while I am in my search mode say the traps here (no ****, can't you see I'm searching). I am searching because I have already spotted it.

A Rogue's order of priorities in my OPINION:

1) Trapsmithing for the party
2) DPS
3) Scouting if needed

Spot is maxed for me, it was just a order of priorities of skills as if you had less skill points to use. if you had a choice of spot or search. It would be search, because you can spot something like my paladin (Drow) but my paladin won't pull boxes because search is lacking and couldn't disable it if wanted to. And a high spot is a pain also. I get spot through walls, etc and sometimes hard find the box in new quests because I'm spotting half the large room. As in telling where the box is, well it helps, but not when the box moves every time you do the quest (some don't understand that). There are places in demon sands where spot (hidden walls mostly) won't pickup, even with spot max'd out and +10 or higher items. I also notice boxes have some type of AOE to search. So lets say spot senses something and you search. The traps pull but notice the box doesn't. So you search each wall, corner, and pillars where spot pickup. Another example AOE of the box is pulling the trap with search but no box. After searching you realize the box is probably on the other side of the trap (which usually is). So you proceed to pass the trap, pull back and destroy mobs, then search for box which pops.
Also noticed that most clerics see them before me, since they are in back of the group and have a wide range of view to where I am. Most times I hear it before I see it cause so close.

[Kinesthetic]

Yea and an incompetent clueless politician also thanks all those who helped him take office. So what's your point?

Give it up mate. Guy has no idea what he's talking about so he goes the self-righteous way.

Funny thing is, if he had the brain processing power, he would notice that his whole argument is a contradiction.

I'm assuming that this was in response to my post instead of his. He didn't link a build for you to check out.
And you looked at the wrong build in that thread. Below the one you described, posted by myself.

And to no Bluff: Choose a skill to replace it with....

I'm assuming that this was in response to my post instead of his. He didn't link a build for you to check out.
And you looked at the wrong build in that thread. Below the one you described, posted by myself.

And to no Bluff: Choose a skill to replace it with....

I'm assuming that this was in response to my post instead of his. He didn't link a build for you to check out.
And you looked at the wrong build in that thread. Below the one you described, posted by myself.

And to no Bluff: Choose a skill to replace it with....

KINESTHETIC OUT!

[Rameses]

Hey, guys!
I suppose this question's gonna be a little bit stupid and even an offtop... But... Can anyone tell me plz, where can I find some kinda article about epic traps? Search and disable DCs?

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=72

Lightning Traps EV5
9 + 37 (unbuffed reflex) Failed Save
10+ 37 (unbuffed reflex) Saved Save

Blade Trap
50 Search Box not found
53 Search Box found

and the Disable Device is about 60'ish but I don't recall and the Screen Shots that I posted have long been deleted


Hope this helps answer your question

I am, Rameses!

[Calebro]

Get back under your bridge.

[Kalari]

Op I'll agree with ya no one should tell you how to play build your rogue, I personally let people say what they wish but if I have a plan for my builds any kind I go with what will make me happy and honestly thats all that matters.

I read the back and forth agreed with some disagreed with others. I personally play my rogues in ddo whether its my pure capped assassin or my hybrid ranger/rogues bard/rogues whatever to be able to do multiple things as well as kill. But to me being able to kill has always been important since I consider my rogues melee. They may have to do a lot of their fighting stealth ed but they get their tasks done. Trapsmithing is another boon of the class and the splash classes that I like for solo or groups but I dont feel i'll ever build a rogue for traps only or trap making. I have the most fun with this class because its so opened for different paths and thats the core thing people need to get if a person wants to be a trap artist first let them dont group with them if you feel they dont contribute anything else. If they want to have maxed bluff allow them to show you why or leave them be.

Personally I love spot ive ran with other rogues who didnt even know there was a box in the subterranean that disabled the bottom floor traps my ranger rogue can spot it from long away due to having max ranks in spot and being an elf. Stuff like that sometimes puts a smile on my face. So in close to this ramble play how you wish ignore those who try to push their idea of "rogues" on you it only effects you if you care about what others think of your fun.

[Kinesthetic]

Get Back Under Your Bridge.

Wikipedia!

[Orratti]

Rogue is just a great class for multiclassing. A little on another class can benefit them greatly. A little of another class can also benefit a rogue greatly.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Pure Rogues should have plenty os skill points to not have to prioritise between important skills much at all.

And IMO, Int is important enough to a Rogue that a good rogue build will have some Int. which should definately give him enough skill points to have a lot of skills maxed.

/splash Rpgue though have to prioritise. And prob have o give up something.

Search really needs to be maxed. it is the break all of all trap skills.

DD can be scimped, by a few points...but only a very few. In fact, forget I said that and just max it.

Spot: most traps are at stai locations. those that are not are at one of several static locations...and are not truly random.
The Barbarians in your party can find both traps and hiding monsters for you.
So...Spot is optional.
But, I max spot whenever possible. And I guarantee you will not regret a maxed Spot skill.

UMD: also optional. But addictive. And IMO is an all or nothing skill. Although is doesn't actually have to be maxed....you will always wish it was.

OL: although I consider this a core rogue skill and keep it maxed. Honestly current locks in this game are not that hard. Extremely low OL skills can be used for 90% of the locks in this game. if you need to sarifice something this is one to consider.
But a sacrifice is always a sacrifice...

Hide/MS: I wil never go without these again. your choice. Doesn't have to be maxed. More is needed at lower lvls because of lack of gear at those lvls.
Epic requires very high skills.
I keep these maxed. even on non rogues that I make now....

Diplomacy: In the past, i loved this for getting SA damage. Lately it seems to not work as well...but still works.
Doesn't have to be maxed. but I always wish it was.

Bluff: my new love. I cannot get enough of ways to assasinate targets.
Also doesn't need to be maxed. Wish mine was...

Tumble: for me one point. I've only seen a very few chars make use of more than that effectively.
Wish I could make a char with max tumble to try it out though.

Balance. I don't out points here. Some people swear by it. I just haven't seen it for myself. But I reserve judgment at this time.

Swim: Not needed in current game. Can make one quest easier.
even the up coming underwater combat sounds like it is not needed.
Would be nice though.

Should add Jump: I like Jump. But as far as I know, no more than a 40 Jump is ever needed.
Jump is a Str skill. Jump spell can add 10-30 pts to it. Jump items up to +15 exist, with nice things like Feather Falling boots of Jump +11 being common enough at higher lvls. And other buffs to skille like GH adds to it as well.
And mostly you just need enough to jump out of a pack of Monsters.
My newer chars stop at 10 ranks in Jump....at some time in their career.

All I can think of right now.

[Gorkulon]

HI

What to give my two-cents about rogues, multi classing and Skills.
I put a lot of thought into my rogue and the skill to balance them and want to make some personal points.

I get tired when people tell me “switch out Bluff, Spots and get skill X or Y.”
Let me explain a little why.

There is three core rogue skill: Search, Disable Device, and Open Locks.
- These skills are what I’ll call the “core rogue party skills”. If not good at them you better have spells or DPS. Either way, your usefulness to a party as a rogue is dwindled.

Now these are what I’ll label as the “solo rogue skill”. They are; bluff, hide, move silently, spot.
-these skills only benefit the rogue for the most part and almost useless to benefit the party. So most multi-class rogues choose to dump them to be able to keep up core rogue party skills. They are the tools that work together to solo a map that normally takes party’s of four to do. If you don’t like solo and always want to rely on a party don’t get them, Simple. If you see them in my build, it’s not a mistake.

Note: I don’t want to go and not mention the usefulness of Use Magic Device and Diplomacy and a few others rogue skill but they do not account to the main point of this discussion. So I’m not addressing them farther for now.

The next problem I see in builds is too much “End Game Thinking”.
You will see a multi-class rogue’s character sheet boast max core rogue skill lvl20, but there’s a painful gap at lvl 2~6, or even 4~12. When they have sub-par core rogue party skill, again making them DPS toons, useless if a quest needs a rogue for hard traps or chest/doors.

Yes you can just over power a quest or have a large bank of healing to finish a wipe quest alone or to solo. I’m not going to go into the techniques of soloing with stealth and dirty fighting styles, unless asked but there’re a few guides with tips and tricks to pull off getting the advantage if you search.

My rogue is a dps assassin and got traps his entire way to 20. No use having spot to detect traps if you cant disable them. Ok I suppose spot needed in a few quests to finish but not many. "End Game Thinking" you speak of is necessary to some extent since it is possible to build rogues that can handle traps and get very good dps. Noone wants to bring a piker rogue through The Shroud 20 times when another rogue can contribute. The gap in levels 2-12 you speaK of can be eliminated by getting maxed out trap gear every odd level. Will be a problem anyways beyond 12. Every rogue should have
+15 search,spot and dd items by level 15 and max ranks for these 3 from the start. Im not gonna change my build to get optional chest in cabal for one elite or make every save in monastery for the scorpion elite. Not really hurting groups if I have trap skills that cover every quest I've done except for a couple. I have no need to farm these so I just avoid them.

[DevilButcher]

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction here?

OP wants 3 core "rogue skills" blah blah blah <insert 9 year old philosophy> and goes ahead and posts a build. Let me dissect it for you.

He says we focus too much on end-game, then goes ahead and grabs 6 monk levels. His 3 "core skills" are going to be mediocre if not useless for the trap DC scaling of those levels and probably a while beyond too. So he surely doesn't have traps to bring to the table even at end-game, he's gonna be a sub-par trapster(that he needs 16 int to compensate for part of it). According to him, a situation where this would be acceptable is with spells or DPS.

But he doesn't have that. Why? Because he doesn't have weapon finesse and 4 times toughness(apparently to compensate for rolling with 8 con).

More? No diplomacy, it's not a preference it's not a luxury, if you have buff and no diplomacy, you're not a DPS. Hell any DPS would be uneasy in your presence.

I'm not even delving further into that mishmash of things that "sounds good according to the description" that he picked. 2 DRAGONMARK BFTDYFTDBYTYTRDBYDYTDYBYDFTY

No one is telling him what to do, but if you're gonna post your build you ARE going to be criticized. What else were you trying to accomplish in the first place?

You can't take criticism? Shut the hell up.

He obviously never rolled a rogue, how would he know his playstyle? You can keep him, I don't want him in any of my parties.

Oh and I'm just gonna leave this here.



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Adress both to Kineshetic and Shablala
With no sarcasm here, I am very offended by your “frustrated rudeness” your replys. And not because you are completely correct in your point. You’re not a mind readers and you never asked a question why for anything and seem you never want to hear the reason.

All you did was you made your personal conclusion than make statements how “me the poster” is going to regret picking “this” and to say getting “that” is useless and noob mistakes. You went and question my competence rather than furthering the post, you just wanted to stamp your approval of failure and move on to the next post. Your problem was you don’t know/understand how it would affect the build. You got to get into the mind of the poster. If you don’t want to, it wasn’t in your interest to help but just give a thumb up or down. Which you did you, you hated it, fine.

Now you even went out of your way, went to your little troll cave and trolled up the post, and linked it here. Yes you saw the hypocriticalness that, the build did fall weak in the core rogue skill at level 2~6 and a bit beyond. Did you ask why? Did you ask if it was an over looked mistake? No. You’re just stirring trouble now but I’ll answer your call since you egged me on. And I hope this information more useful for others since it’s wasted on you.

You called me out on end gaming. Let me explain in fact it’s the opposite of end game I was trying for in the build. I wanted Shadow Fade first and foremost and as soon as possible to enjoy it in the early and mid game quests. That’s why I stop monk at lvl6, not 7 for WoB, lvl9 for TOD or even lvl-12 as everyone else often advised in cross-class monk builds. If you read carefully I guess you would have seen that in the OP too, maybe not, that’s fair.

Now did I try to compensate to make up for only having a splash of one level or rogue until lvl 7, yes. I know for what my theme was I have 3 bonus monk feats Rogues don’t normally get, now I know I was not going to use monk fist so stunning blow was out of it and at that time I was deciding not to get finesse, yes I was forced into a high dex build but felt the extra 3~4 to hit was not worth the feat when I can just go into sun stance. Power Attack my feelings on it is unless your a fighter (or other DPS melee class that get +1BAB/per lvl) you do almost as much harm as good with it. (I’m not going to debate that here, please)

So here we go I know I want to make up for the 24(or so) skill points I lost, and how?
Well by a trick with the toughness feat. Each time I gained a toughness feat it let me remove 2 con and place it to another ability of my choice. I used 3 Toughness feats to gain 6 more ability increase at my building stage. I used it to increase Int getting I think +2 skill points a level. My fort-save dropped a bit but I’m immune to disease and got clickies so it’s ok. (If you think this was dumb choice fine, but to me I think it’s a clever way to gain extra ability scores I needed out of thin air, could of put it into add 6str but this build needed more Int to cover my skill choices) So to conclude that 8con plus 4 toughness will add up to the same as having 16con for the most part it’s a good contusion score before equipment.

I also tried to balance my core skill by holding back on Use Magic Device. Felt it only becomes really useful once you getting higher in it so I felt comfortable with the flooding points into it just before mid-game.
I’ll also note that you will see I still wanted to use bluff in the early quests, that’s why I was going up 0.5 in it a lvl.

This is the part I took advice and made changes for the second version as I told it was in progress. I was noted the build didn’t need so much concentration skill End game – true I was using it as a spill-over skill for I had too many unspent skill points. I will take the advice and go spread it over something else.
I also listened to points people stated; base monk attack DC16 too low for anything end game, Build must be 32pt and am still weighing the pro and cons leaving 12str and maxing my dex for weapon finesse as subjected.

Also I like the comments people brought up talking about Open Lock skill in here. It got me thinking I don’t really have to raise OL much at all until lvl 7 just use magic picks and OL gloves. First hard lock I can think of is the shrine in ToD, so I can keep Search maxed. Thank you. And here are the results:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(6 Monk \ 14 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 19
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 17                   18
Dexterity            15                 17                   20
Constitution         10                 10                   10
Intelligence         16                 16                   16
Wisdom               14                 14                   17
Charisma              8                  8                    8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 10                   12
Bluff                 3                 22                   22
Concentration         2                  8                    8
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device        7                 26                   26
Haggle               -1                 -1                    1
Heal                  2                  3                    3
Hide                  6                 28                   28
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  6                 27                   29
Listen                6                 21                   21
Move Silently         6                 28                   28
Open Lock             6                 28                   28
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                  3                    3
Search                7                 26                   26
Spot                  6                 26                   26
Swim                  2                  4                    4
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                 22                   22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Rain


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+5)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[DevilButcher]

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction here?

OP wants 3 core "rogue skills" blah blah blah <insert 9 year old philosophy> and goes ahead and posts a build. Let me dissect it for you.

He says we focus too much on end-game, then goes ahead and grabs 6 monk levels. His 3 "core skills" are going to be mediocre if not useless for the trap DC scaling of those levels and probably a while beyond too. So he surely doesn't have traps to bring to the table even at end-game, he's gonna be a sub-par trapster(that he needs 16 int to compensate for part of it). According to him, a situation where this would be acceptable is with spells or DPS.

But he doesn't have that. Why? Because he doesn't have weapon finesse and 4 times toughness(apparently to compensate for rolling with 8 con).

More? No diplomacy, it's not a preference it's not a luxury, if you have buff and no diplomacy, you're not a DPS. Hell any DPS would be uneasy in your presence.

If you know the build not going to be the top DPS in the party than the build got no worries about agro, so why does the build need points in diplo. What you said there sir was just dumb. And now reflexting on the build it has average SA bonus damage compared to any other non-halfling rogue splash-(whatever), to say I don’t even have DPS would be wrongful and discriminating. Again to clarify Sun stance + equipments, it’s not a Thug rogue str but it passes since thug was not what I was theme for.

I'm not even delving further into that mishmash of things that "sounds good according to the description" that he picked. 2 DRAGONMARK BFTDYFTDBYTYTRDBYDYTDYBYDFTY

Of course I don’t expect you to agree, but I tried to explain why I feel Demission Door is the friend of every rogue who like stealth’s mission. It lets you restart a mission when the stealth run does go bad, with out quitting and re-staring because your spotted and chased down and killed.(also it got a cool down timer of only 6 seconds unlike the spell) By no means was I trying to convince you anything just informing. I think 40% of all build I do has DD, so yes I have used it and quickly grew on me. And no, I did not just see it in the DDO Compendium and though it was cool, placing it in my build as you remark.

No one is telling him what to do, but if you're gonna post your build you ARE going to be criticized. What else were you trying to accomplish in the first place?

You can't take criticism? Shut the hell up.

He obviously never rolled a rogue, how would he know his playstyle? You can keep him, I don't want him in any of my parties.

Let me put it like this, If you ARE going to criticize great, I listened. Now I responded to a troll on My post, someone who probably never wanted to get a response back because there too argent. Yes I Do have many toons of all types some lvl-15 and scatter around (none lvl20). I’ve gone to great lengths to read posts and practicing rogues hallmark skill and different feats to understand how to best use them. No I can’t go and tell you where every trap is, or what DC they are. Or even done a shroud run and trust me I listen to threads of people who have. I also keep in mind there is a lot of misleading things people say too. But please don’t go in here telling me you’re so good a rogue player you can sniff-out and say I am a completely inexperience rogue players just because I post a non-cookie cutter theme rogue/monk splash. You’re a experienced DDO gamer I see that (here’s a sticky star, good for you). Please this OP despite your feelings is not aimed at a specific person, it’s just what my opening sentence said “my two-cents” take it or leave it at that if that’s how you feel.

You tell me you never let me to join your party and bet you probable try to convince the group to remake too. You got to give a chance at least to prove there worth. There’s name for people like that (and don’t reply smart, there acting like “world biggest turkey baser”) Thanks for pointing out your true colors.
If I can’t get in a party, well I planed for that. I can solo with this toon or use it in slow hours at night or erase it like many beta toons, If it’s turns out to be a fun toon to play I keep it. I’m not quoting you as telling me this build was garbage but I got the idea you feel it is too gimp for leet and epic runs I think - that’s also something I wanted to know in that post. And with the second modification this new version I feel more comfortable.

Oh and I'm just gonna leave this here.



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Aschbart]

Hey, guys!
I suppose this question's gonna be a little bit stupid and even an offtop... But... Can anyone tell me plz, where can I find some kinda article about epic traps? Search and disable DCs?

Did you really mean epic, or Elite? If the latter, this thread should help. If the former, I can't add to the answer already provided, other than wondering why the epic DCs listed there are lower than those for the Cabal trap on Elite!? Anyway, the thread I linked also lists all the bonuses you might be able to stack from different sources, so for epic or not, it's a great resource.

[Kinesthetic]

If you know the build not going to be the top DPS in the party than the build got no worries about agro, so why does the build need points in diplo. What you said there sir was just dumb. And now reflexting on the build it has average SA bonus damage compared to any other non-halfling rogue splash-(whatever), to say I don’t even have DPS would be wrongful and discriminating. Again to clarify Sun stance + equipments, it’s not a Thug rogue str but it passes since thug was not what I was theme for.



Of course I don’t expect you to agree, but I tried to explain why I feel Demission Door is the friend of every rogue who like stealth’s mission. It lets you restart a mission when the stealth run does go bad, with out quitting and re-staring because your spotted and chased down and killed.(also it got a cool down timer of only 6 seconds unlike the spell) By no means was I trying to convince you anything just informing. I think 40% of all build I do has DD, so yes I have used it and quickly grew on me. And no, I did not just see it in the DDO Compendium and though it was cool, placing it in my build as you remark.


Let me put it like this, If you ARE going to criticize great, I listened. Now I responded to a troll on My post, someone who probably never wanted to get a response back because there too argent. Yes I Do have many toons of all types some lvl-15 and scatter around (none lvl20). I’ve gone to great lengths to read posts and practicing rogues hallmark skill and different feats to understand how to best use them. No I can’t go and tell you where every trap is, or what DC they are. Or even done a shroud run and trust me I listen to threads of people who have. I also keep in mind there is a lot of misleading things people say too. But please don’t go in here telling me you’re so good a rogue player you can sniff-out and say I am a completely inexperience rogue players just because I post a non-cookie cutter theme rogue/monk splash. You’re a experienced DDO gamer I see that (here’s a sticky star, good for you). Please this OP despite your feelings is not aimed at a specific person, it’s just what my opening sentence said “my two-cents” take it or leave it at that if that’s how you feel.

You tell me you never let me to join your party and bet you probable try to convince the group to remake too. You got to give a chance at least to prove there worth. There’s name for people like that (and don’t reply smart, there acting like “world biggest turkey baser”) Thanks for pointing out your true colors.
If I can’t get in a party, well I planed for that. I can solo with this toon or use it in slow hours at night or erase it like many beta toons, If it’s turns out to be a fun toon to play I keep it. I’m not quoting you as telling me this build was garbage but I got the idea you feel it is too gimp for leet and epic runs I think - that’s also something I wanted to know in that post. And with the second modification this new version I feel more comfortable.

Of course you are sweetie !

[WannaBeDonator]

Continuing a trap DCs theme.
That's what i've found.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=37
Is that TRUE? O_O
So nowdays every non_gimped rogue-assassin can in fact disable everything on Epic?
Did anyone try? Can anyone prove this? (No need in screenshots ofc - just tell me if U tried and succeeded anywhere else than VON with such skill rates)
That's the key info i need for my build :'-(
Should i max out skill boost, skill enchancements/feats, craft except._Int_greensteel or Dragontouched robes... or i can just stop at... hm... lets say 48 and 55 unbuffed. (these numbers can in fact be achieved with ease by ANY rogue player with basic items and tools)
Looking forward the answer. Thx.