Not playing the game due to raid lockouts = playing another game

[Fomori]

To summarize, raid lockout timers force players to not play DDO. If you don't want people to get attracted to another game and stop paying for DDO, keep them playing as much as possible. A change in the way raid lockout timers works would help keep players in DDO while keeping them from completing their objectives too fast and getting bored with the game.

I can understand that it forces YOU not to play DDO, and that force is really a play choice on your part. I understand that this is how you want to play, great! .... who am I tell tell you different.

However I think the community as a whole enjoys the other aspects of DDO other than the raids. In fact I only look for raids when I get bored of other content. I HATE raids in MMO's as they are only designed to bait trap players into grinding until the next content expansion. I get their necessity but I dont have ti like them.

I think your system would have more merit if the only reward to running a raid was a roll on a named item. By having other chests to gather, not to mention the whole Shroud crafting system, allowing you to 'gang up' via your system on the same raid would be abused by the powergamers while giving almost no extra benefit to the casual gamer.

[Cyr]

So let me get this straight.

You put extremely narrow restrictions on yourself like "I only want to run the Shroud" and "I only want to play one character" and then you complain that the game is too restrictive?

You missed the part where they wanted to change the mechanics of the game to be less restrictive for their particular restrictive playstyle while making it more restrictive for most others.

[Syntax42]

Another bad side effect is that it will kill some raids. If people were forced to pick 2 shrouds a day, they would never run the other raids. It would boost shroud, but less commonly run raids would die. If I run Shroud and ToD every day, I could wouldn't ever run VoD, Hound, Abbot, Titan, DQ, VoN, Reavers, and no would either.

At first, maybe. I think it would improve raiding for other raids, though. People would be better-geared for the higher-end and more difficult raids if they run Shroud first. You would have more people with Shroud items and Mineral II weapons, with better preparation to run raids like ToD and VoD. Those people could contribute significantly to the success of a higher-difficulty raid. If raids lack a desirable item, it is Turbine's job to put them in so players will run raids.

[Bilger]

You missed the part where they wanted to change the mechanics of the game to be less restrictive for their particular restrictive playstyle while making it more restrictive for most others.

LMAO so true +1 to both of you

[Rav'n]

HOW WAS THIS POSSIBLE??!

I think my head just exploded.
<--- included this so people know I'm kidding.

No really.... quit slumming and get back on Argo!

[Syntax42]

...would be abused by the powergamers while giving almost no extra benefit to the casual gamer.

That is where you're wrong and I have pointed this out before. The overall number of raids being ran per character would be less, which gives less benefit to powergamers. A casual player who can run two raids per day would have more freedom to choose what they want to run. The current system only benefits powergamers who have 10 characters and restricts casual gamers who only have time to run 1-2 raids per day.

[Kevorkian]

Just don't complete. Every Shroud I've run in the last 6 months has DDoors at the end, take them and you can run shroud 1-4 20 times a day then complete on your last one you run. You get many many chances at ingredients and still get completion.

If you're a monk there is no reason for you to not want to run ToD. Almost every melee toon in the game would rock a shintao set if they have both pieces and adding holyburst to all of your attacks once you have 9 completions is awesome.

[Syntax42]

Just don't complete. Every Shroud I've run in the last 6 months has DDoors at the end, take them and you can run shroud 1-4 20 times a day then complete on your last one you run. You get many many chances at ingredients and still get completion.

If you're a monk there is no reason for you to not want to run ToD. Almost every melee toon in the game would rock a shintao set if they have both pieces and adding holyburst to all of your attacks once you have 9 completions is awesome.

I need 20 completions and I don't have the time or the desire to run it 4 times per day. All of my items are tier 3. I just need to cleanse one.

My TR plan does not include unarmed damage, so a bursting ring is not something I care for. Besides, after seeing the drop rates of named items on other raids, I think I would have to run ToD 20 or 40 times to get the rings I want. I'm not delaying my TR just to run ToD 20 times.

[Bilger]

Just don't complete. Every Shroud I've run in the last 6 months has DDoors at the end, take them and you can run shroud 1-4 20 times a day then complete on your last one you run. You get many many chances at ingredients and still get completion.

If you're a monk there is no reason for you to not want to run ToD. Almost every melee toon in the game would rock a shintao set if they have both pieces and adding holyburst to all of your attacks once you have 9 completions is awesome.

This person just doesn't see that there is more than shroud and doesn't want to do it for there own restrictive reasons.

Common sense posts are not needed

Seriously I know he/she thinks they have a good idea but it is restrictive to the majority and would pushh people away and that is not what ddo wants.

If I couldn't get myself on timer for a character in all the raids I need for them when my timers up I would be ****ed to have to wait another day just to do that raid and be screwed from doing another.

Very bad Idea but that is my OP

[Vynnt]

At first, maybe. I think it would improve raiding for other raids, though. People would be better-geared for the higher-end and more difficult raids if they run Shroud first. You would have more people with Shroud items and Mineral II weapons, with better preparation to run raids like ToD and VoD. Those people could contribute significantly to the success of a higher-difficulty raid. If raids lack a desirable item, it is Turbine's job to put them in so players will run raids.

A lot of raids only have one or two items that would help builds. Take VoD and Hound. My healer already has the one item I need from each. This change would stop me completely from ever running those raids. Why would I waste one of my two raids if all it does is prevent me from running other raids? You think its hard to find healers now, put this in, and it will be insanely hard.

[Visty]

Shroud ingredients are not bound to character. You can roll a second character if you want more ingredients. Or do epic demon queen, or epic dragon, or other epic quests.

As for tomes and cleansing agent after 20 shroud completions. They should have raid timers lock out. Imagine the boredom after you got all +3 tomes in 60 days since you can complete 20 shroud runs to obtain one +3 tome in 10 days.

According to what you suggested, then some of those players after 60 days will have nothing else to do after getting +3 tomes to all stats because they do not want to True Incarnate and do not want to run anything else.

At normal play, to obtain these at the optimum may take a year of gaming on a single character instead of 60 days.

you need 10 days for 20 shrouds?
a shroud usually takes 1hour, thats 20 hours, splitted over a raid heavy weekend as a guild

and 1 hour is slow for a shroud

[Nyvn]

That is where you're wrong and I have pointed this out before. The overall number of raids being ran per character would be less, which gives less benefit to powergamers. A casual player who can run two raids per day would have more freedom to choose what they want to run. The current system only benefits powergamers who have 10 characters and restricts casual gamers who only have time to run 1-2 raids per day.

SO your proposed system would change from

2.5 Shroud, VOD, TOD, Hound, ADQ, VoN a week to 14 X raid per week? So in 1 week 3 days you can hit your 20th Completion on any given raid. You don't see how this would benefit power gamers?

[khaldan]

Step 1: learn that any melee can use practically all the str rings
Step 2: Run ToD 9 times and get one of said str rings
Step 3: Ignore the set bonus and throw +2 exc str on the ring
Step 4: Win

[Syntax42]

Seriously I know he/she thinks they have a good idea but it is restrictive to the majority and would pushh people away and that is not what ddo wants.

Do you really think the majority of players have more than 2 characters and more than 6 hours per day to play? Most people have less than 4 hours per day to play. My suggestion would allow the real majority to play the raids they want instead of running things they don't want or not playing the game at all.

How many characters do you have? How many raids do you really run?

[Vynnt]

Do you really think the majority of players have more than 2 characters and more than 6 hours per day to play? Most people have less than 4 hours per day to play. My suggestion would allow the real majority to play the raids they want instead of running things they don't want or not playing the game at all.

How many characters do you have? How many raids do you really run?

Back to my original argument. Take a casual player. He can only run maybe a raid a weeknight, but has a lot of time on weekends. Right now, he can be totally satisfied. Under your plan, sorry, you have all this time on Saturday, but can only run 2 raids!

EDIT: typo

[Fomori]

That is where you're wrong and I have pointed this out before. The overall number of raids being ran per character would be less, which gives less benefit to powergamers. A casual player who can run two raids per day would have more freedom to choose what they want to run. The current system only benefits powergamers who have 10 characters and restricts casual gamers who only have time to run 1-2 raids per day.

From your initial post you say 2 raids per character per day.

Not counting the other raids there are 6 major ones that run by most powergamers (4 if they are not 20 on that toon yet)...
ToD
Shroud
VoD
Hound
Epic VoN
Epic DQ

They can run 6 raids in the current lockout scheme (3 days). Your method they can do 6 also, but get to pick and choose in that time frame. Also since they can pick the same 1 twice each day that equates to a specific raid being run SIX times in the same period you could run it once. What that leads to is farming VoD and/or Hound till you get the item(s) you want then ignore it. This occurs 6 times faster... also now you have no reason to run those since it takes runs away from running the other 4.

We can also count out the Shroud of this as well since you can do 1-4 for larges and only complete when you want to craft tier III at the last altar. Thus you can get the benefits of ingredients and not take up a 'daily slot'. Only if you want the cleanser do you need to burn to 20 completions.

This leaves ToD and Epic VoN... what do we want from ToD; rings and +4 Tomes. What do we want from Epics; epic red scales in VoN, scrolls, seals, epic tokens... So the next plan for powergamer is run ToD 20 times using your 2 runs per day, so 10 days. That should get you your rings and at least 1 chance at a +4 tome on the 20th. After this point its Epic VoN/DQ time.

Now this has given the powergamers the same gear in shorter time and also makes it so they dont need to run VoD or Hound anymore on that toon. This negatively effects the casual gamers who usually PUG in the last couple of spots where the powergamer toons are looking for a certain item.

Also, you say the casual gamers can run 2 per day... Well!!! I dont think the casual gamers are running 6 raids in the 3 day time period as it is. Maybe on the weekends in a power session they do every raid, but then those are not truly casual anyways.

Onto the playtime thing...

Casual players are going to play the same content in either system. Powergamers now are going to go in the direction you are moving away from ... only running raids!!! Now they have access to a specific raid in a smaller time period. Now if they want the epic red dragonscale, its much much easier to get. This also effects the economy now...

In the end have you really thought out what someone willing to abuse the system is capable of doing, even more so if they have multiple characters to run. I dont think this helps anyone except someone that enjoys power grinding.

/not signed

[Syntax42]

SO your proposed system would change from

2.5 Shroud, VOD, TOD, Hound, ADQ, VoN a week to 14 X raid per week? So in 1 week 3 days you can hit your 20th Completion on any given raid. You don't see how this would benefit power gamers?

Your sense of math is off. Shroud, VoD, ToD, Hound, ADQ, and VoN is six raids in three days. The proposed system is still six raids in three days.

Under the current system, people can run Shroud, VoD, ToD, Hound, ADQ, VoN, Titan, Reaver, Abbot, and SoS once each every three days. That is a total of ten raids that drop items desirable to level 20s. Under the proposed system, it would be six raids in three days. Looks to me like it restricts power gamers a little...

Half the people here are telling me to do more raids than just Shroud. If you tell me people only run the six raids you mentioned, then you are not supporting those who claim I'm restricting my choice of raids too much.

[Syntax42]

Also since they can pick the same 1 twice each day that equates to a specific raid being run SIX times in the same period you could run it once.

My wording was not clear enough and I have edited my original post. The intent was to run two DIFFERENT raids per day.

[Jay203]

This game requires a lot of dedication to one character,

no it doesn't
gotta spread the love all throughout the alts

[khaldan]

Your sense of math is off. Shroud, VoD, ToD, Hound, ADQ, and VoN is six raids in three days. The proposed system is still six raids in three days.

Except people aren't going to rotate their raids like that. They'll do shroud/VoD until they get all the items from one of those raids, then shroud/ToD, and repeating down the line. In a way, this helps power gamers get specific items faster, while not really helping the casuals.

Oh, and why should casuals get the same things as power gamers, or limit power gamers to help casuals?