Thrown Damage

[Darcmyst]

So looked further in game at Feats,

Power Attacks seems out as it says "melee" in description.
Stunning Blow Still sounds possible.
Many Shot seems out as it refers to shooting arrows, though I still want to test it to be certain.
Rapid Reload also seems out as it states repeaters specifically.

Also have access to a Halfling Rogue and discovered that while it has weapon focus for all of the thrown weapons, I would still need to use an additional feeat to use axes/hammers/shurikens.

Marcus-Hawkeye, I would still like your input when you have the opportunity.

[Visty]

So looked further in game at Feats,

Power Attacks seems out as it says "melee" in description.
Stunning Blow Still sounds possible.
Many Shot seems out as it refers to shooting arrows, though I still want to test it to be certain.
Rapid Reload also seems out as it states repeaters specifically.

neither of those work with thrown

Also have access to a Halfling Rogue and discovered that while it has weapon focus for all of the thrown weapons, I would still need to use an additional feeat to use axes/hammers/shurikens.

throwing dagger or dart are a simple weapon, you can use that

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Good call Systemstate, that would also help with UMD.

My original thought was Dwarf Fighter. Figured with the racial enhancements applying to both Thrown and Dwarven Axes (Feat as well for free) it could help out with melee damage. Fighters have enough feats that I could work towards both. I just need to understand which affect the former before selecting.

Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, and Brutal Throw I'm guessing are the givens to help thrown damage.

I'm unsure on:
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Many Shot
Rapid Reload
Power Attack
Stunning Blow

Many shot does not work with thrown weapons.
Rapid Reload is for crossbows only
Power attack, obviously it will help when you switch to melee, but I've been told it does not affect thrown.
Stunning blow, again for melee sure, but I've been told does not work with thrown.

I thought about Dwarf, but I only glanced over it as it's specific to axes, where daggers and hammers are part of what I use...

DOH, you beat me to it...darn people coming in my office and interupting my more important forums writing!

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

One of the things I've always like was the improved precise shot, but that requires high dex (19)... before Brutal throw, you needed high dex anyways so it was never really a question... It'd be a hard thing to give that up in a new build...

I've also tried in the past to get "Shot on the Run" and it does come in handy, and only requires point blank shot (which you would already have to get precise shot) and mobility, and dex 13.... The mobility feat has no real specific bonus to the makeup of the character but tumbling has saved my butt a number of times.

Considering the introduction of brutal throw though makes it possible to focus on STR instead of STR and DEX. which would free up stat points for other things. I was considering trying to make CHA for Diplomacy better so I can simply diplo mobs from me onto the melees. But I haven't been able to get information about what Diplo works in higher level content.

What raid loot or unique loot have you considered for this build? I don't know a lot about unique stuff to know which way to go with this... I'm mostly just working with randomized loot. Because of this and the high dex I used to require I'd opt for deathblock + Spell resistance robes with armor bracers. Now, however, if I try a build based on the brutal throw, I'd be more apt to go for regular armor, but other than a DB +SR fullplate, what else is there that could potentially benefit a build of this type?

Either way I use a Shatter +10, sneak attack item in my offhand to apply those bonuses to my thrown weapons.

[Darcmyst]

Visty concerning Stunning Blow, is your statement like Marcus's, or have you or someone you know actually tried Stunning Blow with thrown? Just want to clarify and thanks for response.

[Darcmyst]

Yeah Marcus, I'm still new enough that I'm pretty unfamiliar with desirable gear that could enhance the build. I mostly planned to cherry pick loot lists from Str based melee builds. Then could tweak from there. I'll be sure to keep the off hand weapon bonuses in mind though. Originally I had just planned to carry a Shield.

[unbongwah]

Darcmyst - this build is for you.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Darcmyst - this build is for you.

Interesting build. Does the tempest shield bonus apply if you are wielding a thrown and offhand weapon? I was under the impression that it does not work this way.

[unbongwah]

Tempest AC bonus only applies when dual-wielding weapons. I'm not sure what if anything besides a shield you can keep in your offhand when using a thrown weapon in your primary. I don't suppose you can dual-wield throwing weapons, could you? [For maximum effect, tumble in slow-motion as doves sail majestically past you.]

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

You can equip whatever you want in your offhand including another thrown weapon (but it won't be used as a weapon). As far as I can tell wielding an offhand has no direct impact on your thrown weapon. I use the +10 seeker with +1 SA as it applies them to your thrown weapon. Even so I don't believe just holding two weapons like I do counts towards being considered for two weapon bonuses such as the shield bonus from Tempest. So Tempest is good for it's melee purposes for the build but contributes nothing to the thrown side.

I am merely asking because it's hard to find someone who can say "I've tested this and it works / doesn't work" when it comes to thrown weapons.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Stunning Blow does not work with ranged/thrown, you get a Wrong Weapon Type error.

[Darcmyst]

Mostly typing this out to put all my thoughts down for comparison. Thanks again to all who have contributed. This is a compilation of your advice, let me know if I have misunderstood something. I welcome any further ideas.

CLASSES:

RANGER,

Pros:
Free Feats TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot and Imp Precise Shot (19 dex)
Proficiency with all weapon types except Shuriken
Favored Enemies
Self Healing
Rams Might
Capstone
Evasion
Speed boosts
Stealth.

Cons:
Wasted Many Shot, Bow Str, feat limited.
Lower UMD (unsure how to calc this)

ROGUE,

Pros:
High Sneak Attack damage
"Free" Vorpal (Assassin III)
Capstone
Attack speed haste
Attack damage boost
Stealth
Trap Monkey
Imp. Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
High UMD
High skill points.

Cons:
Limited range
Weaker melee
Feat limited
Tougher to get Imp Precise Shot
Proficiency for Daggers + Darts only

FIGHTER,

Pros:
Ability to take all needed feats including some left over for melee focus.
Kensai III
Capstone
Attack speed haste
Attack damage boost
Proficiency for all weapon types except Shurikens.
More Toughness enhancements
Str enhancements

Cons:
Tougher to get Imp. Precise Shot
Low UMD
Low skills
Tougher to get self healing.


RACES:

HALFLING

Pros:
Guile, Cunning, free thrown Weapon Focus, Dex enhancements (if pass on Brutal Throw),

Cons:
Lower Str

DWARF

Pros:
Higher Str, higher Con, free Dwarven Axes, enhancement boosts for melee and thrown axes, more Toughness and Con enhancements.

Cons:
Lower Char for UMD, lower Wisdom for Ranger

DROW

Pros:
Higher Dex for Imp Pecise Shot, higher Char for UMD, Rapier enhancements, free Shuriken proficiency

Cons:
Lower Con

Also of note, Unbongwah's MC build posted above.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Can anyone confirm Assassin III works with thrown weapons within sneak attack range?

[Dunfalach]

I can't log on right now due to work, but I'll try to get you a definite yes/no on whether Tempest counts two-weapon if you're holding a throwing weapon. I've got a Tempest I ranger.

[Emili]

Fighter is the most likely the best pressed towards thrown weapons... outside of racial enhancements fighter is the only class with enough feat space and alacrity (it's capstone) to warrent throwing as somewhat a prime.

Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 74 action points
Available to Fighter class level 20
Your mastery with weapons is such that you are able to attack faster than normal. Grants a 10% Competence bonus to chance to double strike with melee weapons and a 10% Competence bonus to attack speed with ranged and thrown weapons.

Along with quickdraw the only way to increase throwing attack speed outside of in-game items.

Coupling this with the amount of feats a fighter may get and kensai III for damage, to-hit, and critical threat... I do not see other classes coming into equals quite so easily.

[Emili]

I can't log on right now due to work, but I'll try to get you a definite yes/no on whether Tempest counts two-weapon if you're holding a throwing weapon. I've got a Tempest I ranger.

Tempest goes away with a thrown weapon in any hand. It only aplies to dual use ot melee weapons- TWF. I verified such but a minute ago. Which it does make sense in this aspect as it only applies to TWF and your use of such - what was once alacrity is now % for off hand attack defensive block (AC) with both weapons and 2 more off the penalty of the twf use.... DDO has not allowed use of two thrown weapons to fall under this realm it treats these weapons unlike others.

Another note... the minute you start splashing ranger thrown weapons become irrelivant as the bow takes over in superiority.

Can anyone confirm Assassin III works with thrown weapons within sneak attack range?

The active part of assasinate does not work with a thrower... however sneak-attack does... am still attempting to get a single insta-kill blow with one (not easy when alone and having to be within 30', have a lot more in diplo than bluff). Seems a bit rough testing this way ... I been using a radiance melee weapon in vale to blind the mob first then switching to a throwing dagger - not so good because the mob are squishy there to begin with... over 100 mob so far but no insta deaths so far but then again these things are squish and priming them with a radiance rapier first does not leave me much space to roll 20's in on the thrower.

A few notes on rogue which make this situational and game play style becomes somewhat a pain... first SA is within 30' - not a very great distance... second throwers range far exceed spell casting range (is equal to that of bow range actually - **** we throw bloody far). As such one must judge very well what they may be doing with a rogue thrower spec - requires a lot of attention on the distance you wish to be in as is a very tight circle. SA is very nice in this area as am getting the normal 90ish average off a thrower but the space (or lack of) required for a thrown weapon kind of plays against you.

[Aschbart]

Has anyone considered a halfling Frenzied Berserker? I somehow doubt such a build could reach the same damage output as a Kensai build due to lack of feats, but it would be hilarious: a halfling with bubbling foam on her mouth, hurting herself (Death Frenzy) everytime she throws big axes at her opponents - or better yet, right through her opponents (Improved Precise shot).

[Angelus_dead]

a halfling with bubbling foam on her mouth, hurting herself (Death Frenzy) everytime she throws big axes at her opponents - or better yet, right through her opponents (Improved Precise shot).

Extra damage dice from Vicious does not occur with ranged weapons. The key weakness of the Barbarian thrower compared to Kensei is the lack of a +1 crit range effect.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Tempest goes away with a thrown weapon in any hand.

The active part of assasinate does not work with a thrower... however sneak-attack does...

A few notes on rogue which make this situational and game play style becomes somewhat a pain... first SA is within 30' - not a very great distance... second throwers range far exceed spell casting range (is equal to that of bow range actually - **** we throw bloody far). As such one must judge very well what they may be doing with a rogue thrower spec - requires a lot of attention on the distance you wish to be in as is a very tight circle. SA is very nice in this area as am getting the normal 90ish average off a thrower but the space (or lack of) required for a thrown weapon kind of plays against you.

Thank you for taking the time to investigate this further, it's been hard to find someone willing to take the time and I don't have much time to do it myself and most of my toons are not designed for testing within the realm of what we've been discussing here.

Having a lvl 20 fighter specd for thrown I've been through it all... soloing with a thrown is pretty challenging, but not to bad if you don't mind the extra time, but if you are soloing you MUST have improved precise shot to bring down groups of mobs faster, I couldn't imagine doing it without it. Also if you have vertigo and can't handle spinning/kiting things, then this certainly is not for you.

Having been using a backstabbing weapon I found in most cases the range of BS doesn't affect much as the mob is usually in range for BS pretty quickly, and if not, his friends will be shortly. The circle is fairly large and once practised extensively.

If you can find a good group that is open minded you can get stuff done quicker but as you advance you will find more and more groups that question your choice. I eventually just started asking with a tell before applying for a group. My guild is also accepting of unique, less than optimal builds.

[DevilButcher]

Pick Dwarf as your Race or have a high enough UMD for this. Think it's the best thing you got to chuck at someone you don't like and seems not too hard to find in AH:

Dwarven Thrower
Throwing Axe
Minimum Level: 6

Damage: (4-9) 1d6 + 3 Slash, Magic
Extra damage vs non-Giants: This weapon deals an additional 1 to 8 damage against non-Giants.

Critical Roll: (5%/12-27) 20 / x3

Extra damage vs Giants: This weapon deals an additional 2 to 16 damage against Giants.

Returning: This missile will return to the player.
Weight: 2 lbs

That seem good to me for a throwing wep 1d6 + 1d8 + 3 and a x3 crit roll, only catch is you need to have a beard