Not Tukaw's build

[barryman5000]

Ok, after having this idea for awhile, I found Tukaw's build at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=181901 but he must have warped into the future and stole it from me! But seriously its about the same except I gave up the str for int.

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Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 278
Spell Points: 1570 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 21
Will: 27

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                 10                   10
Dexterity             8                 10                   10
Constitution         16                 18                   20
Intelligence         16                 18                   18
Wisdom                6                  8                    8
Charisma             16                 23                   26

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                  4                    4
Bluff                 3                  8                    8
Concentration         5                 27                   30
Diplomacy             3                  8                    8
Disable Device        7                 27                   28
Haggle                3                  8                    8
Heal                 -2                 -1                   -1
Hide                 -1                  0                    0
Intimidate            3                  8                    8
Jump                  3                  4                    4
Listen                2                  3                    3
Move Silently        -1                  0                    0
Open Lock             3                 19                   20
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                7                  8                    8
Search                7                 27                   28
Spot                  2                  3                    3
Swim                 -1                  0                    0
Tumble                3                  4                    4
Use Magic Device      7                 12                   12

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Health Belt of Spell Resistance (19) \par Deathblock Docent of Invulnerability \par Dexterous Ring \par Clever Ring \par Striding Boots \par Charismatic Cowl of the Archmagi \par Necklace of Haggling \par Cloak of Resistance \par Gloves of Disabling \par Blindness Ward Goggles of Minute Seeing \par Head of Good Fortune \par  \par Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Resistances


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (1): Magic Missle


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (2): Blur


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (3): Acid Blast


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Web
Spell (4): Fire Shield


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+10)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (5): Protection From Elements


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (3): Rage
Spell (4): Force Missles
Spell (5): Mind Fog


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (6): Disintegrate


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Ball Lightning


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (7): Protection From Elements, Mass


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (6): Reconstruct
Spell (7): Greater Teleport


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Energy II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Force I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Force II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Force I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Force II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II

With splashes, you obviously get some awesome saves and evasion. The build is mostly going to be a buff and direct damage build. My MAIN concern is the rogue abilities later in the game. Can you disable traps and open locks with the right equipment if you max out your ranks?

I'm already playing this build and at level 11 right now, he is invincible to everything except melee damage which is awesome. I can run through and disable traps easily on normal difficulties.

Is this a waste of time or what?

[Asketes]

so it's tukaw without the melee lol

hmm

[barryman5000]

so it's tukaw without the melee lol

hmm

It seems that way but wasn't intended.

[Khellendros13]

Each to their own and all...but sorry, I can't agree with swapping str and int.

Just make a Wiz/rogue?

[barryman5000]

Each to their own and all...but sorry, I can't agree with swapping str and int.

Just make a Wiz/rogue?

Then where would I get the nice saves from the pally splash that mixes with my main spell casting attribute?

[Steveohio]

Your main casting attribute is nullified by having too deep a splash. Unless you want to give less than max buffs and sit around until a trap comes about, this is inferior to the tukaw, sorry. Go Wiz/Rog if you want to do what you want. The saves do you no good, because even in a battle of attrition you have no way of killing anything.

[Phidius]

Each to their own and all...but sorry, I can't agree with swapping str and int.

Just make a Wiz/rogue?

Then where would I get the nice saves from the pally splash that mixes with my main spell casting attribute?

40 Int + Insightful Reflexes takes care of the Reflex save. Fortitude and Will can get up in the high 20's, but I don't recall having any problems with Fort/Will. At least, not in PvE - I don't do PvP, which is where high Fort/Will saves come in so handy.

The Wiz/Rog doesn't give up on Strength, though... Str/Con/Int are all it needs. The good thing about the Wiz/Rog is that it doesn't give up as much in the casting department, as it starts with 18 Int and retains level 9 spells.

It's really hard to multiclass Sorcerer - but it comes naturally to Wizards.

[barryman5000]

40 Int + Insightful Reflexes takes care of the Reflex save. Fortitude and Will can get up in the high 20's, but I don't recall having any problems with Fort/Will. At least, not in PvE - I don't do PvP, which is where high Fort/Will saves come in so handy.

The Wiz/Rog doesn't give up on Strength, though... Str/Con/Int are all it needs. The good thing about the Wiz/Rog is that it doesn't give up as much in the casting department, as it starts with 18 Int and retains level 9 spells.

It's really hard to multiclass Sorcerer - but it comes naturally to Wizards.

Thats some really good advice. I guess a wiz/rog might have been a better choice. Gonna keep playing with this character and see how he does. Its kinda nice to run up to a beholder and laugh at his fort saving beams

Things I am missing by not doing rog/wiz so far are:

+2 spell penetration
+2 dc of spells (with heighten)
level 9 spells

I give those up for fort and will saves of which will saves shouldn't be much a problem with a caster.

[Phidius]

Thats some really good advice. I guess a wiz/rog might have been a better choice. Gonna keep playing with this character and see how he does. Its kinda nice to run up to a beholder and laugh at his fort saving beams

Things I am missing by not doing rog/wiz so far are:

+2 spell penetration
+2 dc of spells (with heighten)
level 9 spells

I give those up for fort and will saves of which will saves shouldn't be much a problem with a caster.

Don't forget you're also giving up...

4 free meta-magic feats (Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration/Quicken/Spell Focus: Enchantment, etc...)
Skill points
Spell slots (1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, 1 5th, 2 6th, 2 7th, and 2 8th)
Very tasty passive past life feat if you ever TR
The respect and admiration of your peers


Just kidding on that last one... kinda

You can still laugh at beholders, though.

[DrNuegebauer]

Is this a waste of time or what?

No it's NOT a waste of time. But it's probably not 'optimal' either?

With 16 starting int you'll be able to get every trap in the game. You might have too many ranks in open locks and not enough in UMD (you could swap the 2 and still have plenty of skill for all the locks plus be better off in the UMD stakes).

obviously you're not gonna be a major CC'er - more of a 'damage dealer' - but that's ok.

But you're better off with the STR over the INT - who cares about traps with your reflex save! Plus I can assure you it's a lot more fun dumping a crit firewall and then passing out 100s of damage with your Greatax too!!! (sure as heck beats kneeling beside the trapbox!).

18/2 wiz/rogue is better for the traps - and (as pointed out) you'll have fine saves that way anyhow!

[barryman5000]

So I guess my big question after all the saves talk is, how much does fort saves matter end game? I've been blasted by disintegrate a few times with my pure sorcerer with a +11 fort and usually die. Maybe the dice doesn't like me.

[barryman5000]

So I've been leveling this character up and he is now level 14. Not too bad for party groups but not great at soloing. Considering the way most spells for arcane casters top out at level 15 or so, the damage has been great when fighting a boss.

Found an interesting thing about all the talk about strength. I can still actually hit enemies on hard and eilte about half the time. I know its not endgame but really what casters is gonna try melee at level 20? The saves make me a better fighter some b/c I can run up in the thick of battle and tear up some guys while a caster is flamestriking the party!

Traps and such have been no problems and most parties stare at you when you disable a trap with no problem (VoN 5 on hard, I did the two pathways and b/c of my higher hp had little problems.).

Got a +6 str item and the +2 tome of str so I have a 16 str now and 18 if I cast rage. Being displaced and raged gives me a window of saving sp for now. Saves are all in the 30's.

Current stats with items:

str 16
dex 10
con 26
int 22
wis 10
cha 28

He's got 204 hp not including toughness which I'll get by end game. Cha looks to be about 32 at level 20 using a +6 item and enhancements.

He was a little hard to level and parties sometimes take a while to let you join (if they don't decline) but its a solid build after level 8.

Oh, btw, great pvp build!

[Tak]

I know its not endgame but really what casters is gonna try melee at level 20?

Divine power dude!!! Same BaB as a fighter 20.. So tukaw got better to hit bonus than a fighter 20 with 30 str (got 32str) :P

[ThePrincipal]

I can chime in. I like the 18wiz/2rogue build and wanted to cram in Pally saves so put together a tri class 16/2/2. I'm 9/2/2 right now so I can only comment on early/mid game. I went drow with 11 str, 10 dex, 12 con, 20 int, 13 cha. All lvls up in Int.

Traps - maxed search/dd with gear, max Int, enchancements, and buffs mean I'm rolling +high 40s dd and low 40s search. 10 ranks in OL and Knock wand backup.

Saves - 13 cha lets me take Force of Personality (cha mod to Will) and I took Insightful Reflexes (int mod to Reflex). Cha is 20 (13 +1 pally+6 item) which is +5 all saves. Aura is another +1. +6 Con item for Fort. Heroisim +2 all saves. Rage is +1 Fort. Gearwise I use Voices Trinket +1, Ring of Resis +3 and Parrying Weapon +1 for another +5 total all saves. Reflex save is over 30. Others are mid 20s. Evasion of course. Drow Spell Resistance enchancements (SR 18). Playing at level I make saves on a 2.

Melee - 11 str + 6 item, +1 tome, rogue haste boost, sneak attack, 2x smites, divine power clickies, rage/hero, displacement/blur, stoneskin and greataxe (+3 holy greataxe of parrying is my generic beater). Fight in web or wall of fire for good measure. Ddoor or invisibility if I need to make an escape (usually with a stone or 3 in my bag).

HP - just over 200 with gear. I did take Toughness early. More with rage and false life spell. Took Mental Toughness which will be switched for a second Toughness at higher lvls as well. Third toughness likely.

MetaMagics - Quicken, Empower, and Extend. Will likely drop Extend for Maximize post lvl 16.

Self Heals - 1x Lay on hands for 60 hp for emergencies and Cure Wands. I'm such a nice guy that I carry repair wands for the robots too.

UMD - it's over 20 without gear or buffs. I've scored some nice WF racial gear on the cheap like underwater action poison immunity, and some rogue skills gear. Havent gotten into divine scroll territory yet.

Vs the Sorc build, my build has a lower Cha which means saves will be lower on Fort, about the same on Will (elf), but higher on Reflex (assuming similar gear) than the Sorc. Wiz 16 gives 4 bonus feats and a more aggressive spell curve but less blue bar. Sorc build has more Str but the to-hit is about the same because that build also uses Power Attack. You're trading synergy with Pally Saves for synergy with Rogue Skills. As a dedicated Pugger, the Rogue skills get me into groups which is why I went this route.

PS. For PVP I dont melee. I use a set of Superior Potency/Magi Scepters, turn on the metamagics and blast away.

[Dee_Snider]

Divine power dude!!! Same BaB as a fighter 20.. So tukaw got better to hit bonus than a fighter 20 with 30 str (got 32str) :P

Divine power junkie!