Does anyone even try to conserve mana anymore?

[Chette]

My level 20 Cleric is fully heal speced. Over 500 hp and over 2000 sp. She's not the best she could be, and can't keep up with the Favored Souls mana-wise, but I'm pretty happy with her. If I'm playing with a good group I can make it through pretty much any raid in the game without using potions. So why is it that so many healers out there just toss out strings of mass cures (so inefficient!) and then start chugging pots, or worse yet, just stand there with their auras on when they run out?

Mass heal is the most effective heal spell in the game, yes it has a long casting time, but if your party members don't have enough HP to survive the cooldown when you are quicken-chain casting it, they deserve to die. Yes, I throw a few mass-cures if the situation is dire, but not when people are at 90% hp. Please, please think a little more when you are casting. Anybody can sit there and press 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 chug 1-2-3-1-2-3 over and over. Be smarter than that.

/end rant

[Lorien_the_First_One]

While you aren't wrong...can I say I find "anymore" and a 2010 join date amusing.

[PCNONSENSE]

No, sorry, its not a priority.

[KoboldKiller]

While you aren't wrong...can I say I find "anymore" and a 2010 join date amusing.

Come on now you know the old saying "my forum join date doesn't reflect how long I have played".

[ArkoHighStar]

The main reason at least in raids where this type of mass heal scenario is most likely is lag, plain and simple. The amount of lag made it pretty much a necessity in some cases to just spam heals and hope for the best. This does not always equate to having to chug pots., which is really a personal choice of the player. Most raid parties who plan ahead simply chain healers having the sceond only come in when the first is out

[Phorgiven]

WARNING: You have just upset the devs/Turbine! Healers are asked to purchase mana pots through the Turbine store or risk having their account frozen. Chug away healers-we are open 24/7 and accept all forms of major credit cards!

Ph

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Come on now you know the old saying "my forum join date doesn't reflect how long I have played".

True, especially with the influx of Euro players. It just struck me as a funny combo. Maybe I amuse easily

[TFPAQ]

My level 20 Cleric is fully heal speced. Over 500 hp and over 2000 sp. She's not the best she could be ...

I'd be curious to see your build and gearing for this toon...

[Draccus]

I remember an Epic Demon Queen run a few months ago.

It was 11 guildmates and 1 PUG wizard. We fought to the shrine easily enough and the wizard immediately shrined even though he had about half his spell points left. He then started buffing.

The raid leader tried to stop him "No! Save your spell points for the fight. Let someone who hasn't shrined buff."

*gulp*
*gulp*
*gulp*

Full spell points, let's rock!

[Chette]

While you aren't wrong...can I say I find "anymore" and a 2010 join date amusing.

Oh I wasn't by any means trying to sound "old and grissled", anymore in fact refers to the fact that when I was lower level I had to eek out every measly sp I could. Now that I'm playing with the big boys mostly seem to be opinion that infinite resources can solve any problem.

The main reason at least in raids where this type of mass heal scenario is most likely is lag, plain and simple. The amount of lag made it pretty much a necessity in some cases to just spam heals and hope for the best. This does not always equate to having to chug pots., which is really a personal choice of the player. Most raid parties who plan ahead simply chain healers having the sceond only come in when the first is out

I can appreciate this too, but again, chain casting mass heal should be enough, especially if you have two healers who watch each others animations and offset. I am often in raids where the healer doesn't cast heal once, just cure mass light-mod-serious over and over.

I guess I'm just frustrated by the play style because it gives people the impression that clerics have a closet full of pots, and I certainly don't (as Lorien_the_First_One was so keen to observe, I have not been playing terribly long). I chose to conserve my mana because it adds strategy to what many consider to be one of the most boring toons, the heal-bot. Nobody dies on my watch because I'm conserving mana, unless they're a 250 hitpoint rogue. You play smart and I'll play smart, and we'll all enjoy the game a little more

I'd be curious to see your build and gearing for this toon...

My toon is Lailki on Ghallanda so you can myddo her if you want. She doesn't have anything particularly special, just an upgraded ToD ring with exceptional constitution and some corcordant opp goggles.

[grodon9999]

My toon is Lailki on Ghallanda so you can myddo her if you want. She doesn't have anything particularly special, just an upgraded ToD ring with exceptional constitution and some corcordant opp goggles.

I will attest that she is a damned good healer. I know my word ain't worth much but this girl knows what she's doing. She's healed my elite ToD run as well as many epic quests/raids.

I chain-cast mass-heal with a mass-cure-moderate Scroll thrown in while mass-heal is on cool-down. It's enough to handle nearly everything. My cleric has fewer SP than you and I get away with it, I know I have to drink a pot once in a while because I'm a split class but I accept it.

here's the reason why a lot of people don't use quickened mass-heal like you and I do - habbit. Until recently, mass-heal only affected 6 people so you could NOT use it for a raid. That's it, it's that simple.

Remember mass-heal is also a 9th level spell and I don't believe they were even available before mod 9 so the "old grizzled" vets didn't have it for years. Old habbits die hard.

[grodon9999]

I guess I'm just frustrated by the play style because it gives people the impression that clerics have a closet full of pots, and I certainly don't (as Lorien_the_First_One was so keen to observe, I have not been playing terribly long). I chose to conserve my mana because it adds strategy to what many consider to be one of the most boring toons, the heal-bot. Nobody dies on my watch because I'm conserving mana, unless they're a 250 hitpoint rogue. You play smart and I'll play smart, and we'll all enjoy the game a little more

If the cleric needs to chug pots then the raid leader needs a big kick in the junk for not building a group capable of handling the quest. if you don't bring people with enough skill and enough DPS then the raid deserves to wipe. If we carry groups that aren't capable of getting the job done they'll do it again, it's like natural selection. When the weak die, they'll learn from it and get better (hopefully) but if we (healers) carry them through quests they'll never know that they need to improve.

Talk to me about this tonight.

[hecate355]

1: because sometimes its better to overheal little bit rather than clean all that raise, rebuff mess
2: at times there is hard to predict if people live through quickened heal casting delay or not, failure there leads to same problems
3: cause sometimes it really doesent matter, if i see that we have more than enough dps and healing in shroud for example, ill just heal the way that is most relaxing to me. for same reason i dont always play safe when im sure from my experience and by the way quest has progressed that we cant possibly fail due to lack of mana.

simply dont come crying to me about my play style not matching your 'ideal' while we make from shrine to shrine just fine. iv seen quite some cases where clerics try to control everything around them constantly bossing around, do this that way, dont go there do that, who cares if you came to heal, heal; if it sometimes needs slightly faster fingers, the better for you, you dont fall asleep or die to boredom plus you practice some targeting skills for dire times when it really does matter. sped up easy runs can be almost as educational as hard quests being done in slow pace.

problem is that everyone sees things different, the situation that looks reckless and dangerous to some people can be fully acceptable to others who know how to deal with it


saying that the ones who dont live from mass heal to mass heal dont deserve to be alive is true in theory, in practice, you wanna complete quests right? have to strike balance somewhere, i balance it with having only handful of potions, not some 100, having many potions with you will be pure waste, you will start drinking em for 'just in case'

[Chette]

Thanks junk, that means a lot.
I've never had any problems in any of our guild raids, mostly with pugs. I was in, of all things, a normal VoD the other day. A raid where if played smart you should be able to keep most of the party up just with your aura, needing mass heals for the orthons and such. Yet the other healer in there with me was out of mana about 1/3 of the way in. I still had nearly full. They started chugging potions and I felt bad because there wasn't anything I could do. Me healing more wasn't going to stop them from over-healing and burning through their blue bar.

[hecate355]

ohh and by the way im not one of those who chug potions with all kind of having fun and such arguments, i use potions rarely, usually i have some 3-10 with me, however its serious ******** when 200 hp rogue from shroud tells me after we failed that 'clerics should always have some pots'

i was like ***, really? after i found out his hps, 200 hp melee in shroud is bigger mana waste than few mana pots can cover up; chaining emergency aoe cures like crazy just to keep few such ppl on feet, guess at times i have to learn when it is better to let em die, such calculations are however hard to do in heat situation, where would i draw the line...

[BangsLiekWhoa]

I will attest that she is a damned good healer. I know my word ain't worth much but this girl knows what she's doing. She's healed my elite ToD run as well as many epic quests/raids.

I have to second this. I run with her all the time and she is an excellent healer and player in general. When I heal an epic raid or whatever that needs two healers, there is a noticeable difference between a good healer and a bad one. She is a good one.

If the cleric needs to chug pots then the raid leader needs a big kick in the junk for not building a group capable of handling the quest. if you don't bring people with enough skill and enough DPS then the raid deserves to wipe. If we carry groups that aren't capable of getting the job done they'll do it again, it's like natural selection. When the weak die, they'll learn from it and get better (hopefully) but if we (healers) carry them through quests they'll never know that they need to improve.

I only have to chug pots on rare occasions, and mostly when I am having to share healing duty with a gimp healer that insists on burning through their SP as fast as possible and over healing like crazy.

I have a 20 FvS (452HP, 3012SP) and I stick with quickened mass heal alone on raids, unless the damage is coming in really hard and heavy. If that is not enough to keep someone up, they die. Period. I will rez them after the fight, or wait until someone else does. I refuse to waste extra mana on gimp characters as this will only lead to me having to use resources.

I have seen plenty of healers (and other casters as well) blow all their mana like crazy then chug pots like mad just to repeat the process over again. I did a VoD on hard (IIRC) one night and just was amazed at the other healer who would cast over my healing until he was empty then gulp, gulp, gulp and do it again. (Yes, we had discussed me healing first.) That guy must have gone through 25-30 mana pots in one VoD. It seems that this is the mentality of many new players. Sad but true-ah.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Thanks junk, that means a lot.
I've never had any problems in any of our guild raids, mostly with pugs. I was in, of all things, a normal VoD the other day. A raid where if played smart you should be able to keep most of the party up just with your aura, needing mass heals for the orthons and such. Yet the other healer in there with me was out of mana about 1/3 of the way in. I still had nearly full. They started chugging potions and I felt bad because there wasn't anything I could do. Me healing more wasn't going to stop them from over-healing and burning through their blue bar.

Happens to me all the time. You just have to let them go nuts and mind your own business. The worst part is that if you let them and their mana pots heal without helping, they will still have people dieing somehow.

[Chette]

simply dont come crying to me about my play style not matching your 'ideal' while we make from shrine to shrine just fine.

I believe I stated in my original post that I was frustrated with clerics who *couldn't* make it from shrine to shrine just fine while throwing out their mass cures.

[hecate355]

If the cleric needs to chug pots then the raid leader needs a big kick in the junk for not building a group capable of handling the quest. if you don't bring people with enough skill and enough DPS then the raid deserves to wipe. If we carry groups that aren't capable of getting the job done they'll do it again, it's like natural selection. When the weak die, they'll learn from it and get better (hopefully) but if we (healers) carry them through quests they'll never know that they need to improve.

Talk to me about this tonight.

its same concept as making the world better place to live in by your own actions, while i see logics and good reasoning behind what you said, i dont think it will actually work out that way, it simply wouldnt draw critical number of players, to push something like that into motion you need to convince critical number of players to play that way, right now i sadly cant see it happening

its question whether single person action changes the way things work, do we even have an impact on such things?
currently the system tends to be against it

[hecate355]

I believe I stated in my original post that I was frustrated with clerics who *couldn't* make it from shrine to shrine just fine while throwing out their mass cures.

oh sorry, it wasnt directed at you or this discussion specifically, just my mind started to drift and past bad/good experiences showed up