The Dark Dragon Mark

[Karavek]

I like alot who enjoy using the drow race especially from a conceptual standpoint have long yearned for some boost to our beloved race.

We who use them and a 32 point elf know the real world facts and see how much drow are losing out. Especially when one looks at the power of Dragon Marks. Not everyone is a fan of the various lines especially for feat intensive builds.

Some that have more direct combat advantages like an elves displacment cant be ignored however and when added to a 32 point build show a ability most drow yearn to demonstrate.

What I propose is not giving drow more stat points. Instead for thier 32 point equivalent I propose dragon mark drow. Something that from lore has long been lost from the world. The Mark of Death!

I imagine a potent and deadly dragon mark line starting with an ability that lvl drains 1d4 lvls per 4 character lvls. The next ability would be phantasmal killer. and then something more potent like disintigrate.

That is just a idea of the top of my tired head for what the dragonmark line could do. Maybe instead they could be inherent effects, or ones that draw off ki and grant some natural monk style unarmed combat. After all drow seem born to take the ninja spy monk line. so if maybe you plana 7/13 ftr kensai monk ninja spy youd get more synergy.

Anyways my fellow drow fans feel free to shout out some ideas maybe the Makers will hear us and listen.

[TreknaQudane]

I like alot who enjoy using the drow race especially from a conceptual standpoint have long yearned for some boost to our beloved race.

We who use them and a 32 point elf know the real world facts and see how much drow are losing out. Especially when one looks at the power of Dragon Marks. Not everyone is a fan of the various lines especially for feat intensive builds.

Some that have more direct combat advantages like an elves displacment cant be ignored however and when added to a 32 point build show a ability most drow yearn to demonstrate.

What I propose is not giving drow more stat points. Instead for thier 32 point equivalent I propose dragon mark drow. Something that from lore has long been lost from the world. The Mark of Death!

I imagine a potent and deadly dragon mark line starting with an ability that lvl drains 1d4 lvls per 4 character lvls. The next ability would be phantasmal killer. and then something more potent like disintigrate.

That is just a idea of the top of my tired head for what the dragonmark line could do. Maybe instead they could be inherent effects, or ones that draw off ki and grant some natural monk style unarmed combat. After all drow seem born to take the ninja spy monk line. so if maybe you plana 7/13 ftr kensai monk ninja spy youd get more synergy.

Anyways my fellow drow fans feel free to shout out some ideas maybe the Makers will hear us and listen.

No

[Karavek]

No

very constructive. *Coutrollgh*

[mehlinda]

No

You never mince words do you bro ???

[TreknaQudane]

You never mince words do you bro ???

Not when it's a bad idea with no supporting evidence from the Campaign Setting used by the game.

[Karavek]

Not when it's a bad idea with no supporting evidence from the Campaign Setting used by the game.

yeah that is what most call trolling last I checked. If you come to a thread just to post something that lacks any substance and seems like its there only to cause conflict is what I call trolling. We are not on the table top nor confined by what is printed in some book, those are a basis even for players at the table as every DM is free to modify any aspect as they may see fit.

Its an idea simply suggested to inspire creative discussion. You seem to not have any interest in doing that and I hope you have the sense to stay in forums you actually enjoy giving constructive ideas to.

I mean really calling an idea bad simply on your say so must make you feel godly. Anyone can do it though, here is an example of what it may sound like. Your parents had a bad idea when they decided not to abort a certain pregnancy that resulted in my being needlessly insulted by some uncivil waste of life.

Your also proving why so many stick to small groups of RL friends in this game, as the general population has been full of many such since day one and most seem to be the most rabid of players. Not at all uncommon for smaller MMO especially.

and to the admin yep I know harsh but he started it. Feel free to close the thread whenever.(goes to buy another 5000 turbine points to stay in good standing with the company) Turbine is alot like the church and my character and my soul are thankful for both

[Memnir]

A bad idea that diverges from the lore of the setting - not to mention grossly overpowered.


/no thanks

[Heronous]

No

He really said it al.

[Entelech]

Actually, upon a bit more reflection, I know what I would like to see for Drow.

Right now, each race can use Enhancements to get +2 to a stat. Or (in the case of Humans) a +1 to 2 different stats.

Drow can take a +2 to Dex.

Change it so they can choose a +2 to Dex, +2 to Charisma, or +2 to Intelligence.

The first tier works like the Human stats: pick one to bump. Then the second tier adds to the same stat instead of to any different one like Humans.

[Doganpc]

Actually, upon a bit more reflection, I know what I would like to see for Drow.

Right now, each race can use Enhancements to get +2 to a stat. Or (in the case of Humans) a +1 to 2 different stats.

Drow can take a +2 to Dex.

Change it so they can choose a +2 to Dex, +2 to Charisma, or +2 to Intelligence.

The first tier works like the Human stats: pick one to bump. Then the second tier adds to the same stat instead of to any different one like Humans.

The more I think about the less I think needs to be done. While it would be nice to drop a +2 into any of those 3 stats (can see the flood of Drow Sorcerors now) I think all they really need is for spell resistance to be relevant. I don't expect Drow to be as good as warforged ($) I don't epect them to be as good as any new race we get ($), but I would like for the one thing that really makes them stand out to be meaningful and worth playing. It might mean we see a mild shift from Drow Sorcerors to Paladins or Rogues as their ability to outright resist spells backed up by saving against them (or is it the other way around?) would be appealing despite the smaller HP bar.

Stacking Spell Resistance. Drow get a new base of 13 and enhancements to bump that up to 20. The catch is that the enhancements, enhance the effect, +2, +3, +5, +7 racial bonus to spell resistance. Which could combine with an Item or the cleric spell (those and the drows base of 13 would be the same type and not stack). So a level 20 cleric casting spell resistance on a Drow grants, 32+(2,3,5,7) however when the party gets dispelled (or die) the Drow gets a base of 13+(2,3,5,7). It won't be great, but it sure as kibbles be better than the other races and hopefully useful on all but epic.

Dogan
Just a misinformed idea... thanks for reading.

[Entelech]

In PnP, Spell Resistance normally scales with Hit Dice.

If Drow got 8 + Character level SR, with enhancements to bring it to 10+Level and 12+Level, that would be helpful.

[Dawnsfire]

House Vol
Mark of Death. 3300 or more years old. Extinct.
Race: Elf.
One of the first dragonmarks to manifest, the Mark of Death was also the first dragonmark lost. The lich Erandis d'Vol is the last known bearer of the mark, but its powers have become dormant since she is no longer technically alive. Several times it has allegedly re-surfaced but they were either all hoaxes or Aberrant Dragonmarks. In a novel set in Eberron, a young elf named Espre is believed to bear the Mark of Death, and d'Vol's forces pursue her. d'Vol's priests claim Espre is a descendant of House Vol and bears the actual Mark of Death, although it's possible it is an Aberrant Dragonmark[2].
Dragonmark Abilities: literally the power over death itself. Depending upon the size of the mark, a bearer of the Mark of Death can kill either through physical contact or, if the mark is large enough, by sight or even simply through thinking of the target.

It looks like it is an Elven Mark to me and far too powerful to boot...

[Doganpc]

Fiction has already established that the Mark of Death was removed. The only being that would possess any semblance of it is a Lich iirc. While a Lich is powerful, i'm not sure if it can have a bloodline to pass the mark. What I think would be fun that you could give to Drow and Half-Orc is the Aberrant marks. Have them work like a Potion of Wonder (maybe skewed to being a self cast only spell) at various caster levels. Don't know for how long that would be fun (do I get True Seeing or +4STR when I already have +6 item), but it wouldn't be overly powerful (well okay occasionally it would). Probably get just as much use as the less utilitarian Dragonmarks too.

Dogan
Fiction is more believable.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

What I think would be fun that you could give to Drow and Half-Orc is the Aberrant marks.

Half-orcs get the Mark of Finding, along with humans.

Although, I would not be opposed to Aberrant Marks showing up in the game, and being available to all non-warforged.
Potion of Wonder-type abilities sounds fun, but the real aberrant marks tend to replicate a 1st level offensive spell, and only have 1 tier. So if you really want to spend a feat on a 5/day Burning Hands clicky (albeit one that scales with level) I'm all for that (I'm sure we could figure out some better alternatives.)
On the cool side, they could be red in color instead of blue.

[Karavek]

Fiction has already established that the Mark of Death was removed. The only being that would possess any semblance of it is a Lich iirc. While a Lich is powerful, i'm not sure if it can have a bloodline to pass the mark. What I think would be fun that you could give to Drow and Half-Orc is the Aberrant marks. Have them work like a Potion of Wonder (maybe skewed to being a self cast only spell) at various caster levels. Don't know for how long that would be fun (do I get True Seeing or +4STR when I already have +6 item), but it wouldn't be overly powerful (well okay occasionally it would). Probably get just as much use as the less utilitarian Dragonmarks too.

Dogan
Fiction is more believable.

Frankly I dont give two coppers about the lore this game is far from lore friendly at least by my standard. I am simply trying to put forth a suitable reward for drow players who unlock 32 point build favor( I am not suggesting it ever be something buyable on DDO store nor unlocked if you buy 32 points for account.) I simply think it would be interesting and fun. I mean for fictions sake would it be so hard to have it be a say lich npc you meet who awakens the lost power of the drow bloodline. ETC....

there for your lore love we have a how that makes as much sense as anything ever needs to. I mean I never need on I use the classic "A wizard did it" logic for D&D. Once you have that then anything goes which is the way it should be for the sake of fun.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Frankly I dont give two coppers about the lore this game is far from lore friendly at least by my standard.

With few exceptions (The Black Abbot attempting to achieve godhood is questionable in a world where there's no proof of gods... aside from divine power that even those not worshiping a god can acquire.), the game stays fairly close to the lore of Eberron. Of course, not that you care, as you said. Just because you, personally, do not care nor desire for any background or explanation doesn't mean that there aren't people that do.

If Drow should have access to any Dragonmark (which by lore they should not, as only the races on Khorvaire, and only a handful of lineages within a handful of races at that, have the potential for Dragonmarks), it would be Aberrant Dragonmarks, as I mentioned in my prior post in this thread.


But lets cut all this aside.
In reality, you feel that Drow are underpowered, at least when compared to a 32pt build of another race. And you want them buffed.
If you had come and said this to begin with, you'd likely get people to agree. After all, their Spell Resistance is laughable, costly to improve, and remains laughable even at max, and they lack any of the innate magical abilities that are occasionally associated with Drow (and by standard D&D3.5 rules, they should have).
You could likely find other threads on this subject, as well.

Just adding a Dragonmark option isn't going to balance them. If Dragonmarks were all that, we'd see a lot more players with them. (I'm a fan of Dragonmarks, personally, but they're very hard to work into most characters, if at all, and in the high-magic lootfest known as DDO the magic granted by them is not as powerful as it would be in tabletop.)

[Karavek]

With few exceptions (The Black Abbot attempting to achieve godhood is questionable in a world where there's no proof of gods... aside from divine power that even those not worshiping a god can acquire.), the game stays fairly close to the lore of Eberron. Of course, not that you care, as you said. Just because you, personally, do not care nor desire for any background or explanation doesn't mean that there aren't people that do.

If Drow should have access to any Dragonmark (which by lore they should not, as only the races on Khorvaire, and only a handful of lineages within a handful of races at that, have the potential for Dragonmarks), it would be Aberrant Dragonmarks, as I mentioned in my prior post in this thread.


But lets cut all this aside.
In reality, you feel that Drow are underpowered, at least when compared to a 32pt build of another race. And you want them buffed.
If you had come and said this to begin with, you'd likely get people to agree. After all, their Spell Resistance is laughable, costly to improve, and remains laughable even at max, and they lack any of the innate magical abilities that are occasionally associated with Drow (and by standard D&D3.5 rules, they should have).
You could likely find other threads on this subject, as well.

Just adding a Dragonmark option isn't going to balance them. If Dragonmarks were all that, we'd see a lot more players with them. (I'm a fan of Dragonmarks, personally, but they're very hard to work into most characters, if at all, and in the high-magic lootfest known as DDO the magic granted by them is not as powerful as it would be in tabletop.)

The way you talk it sounds like your trying to infer I had been trying to do something like con people into giving drow an upgrade.

I am rather confused why your even in this section of the forums as you dont seem to be very pro drow. I dont go to the dwarf forums much cus I dont like them or play them and care not one way or another about them.

I am here on the drow forums because DUH I am wanting to see them grow and develop. I wasnt after a simple buff but rather some reward for drow players who achieve unlocking 32 point build favor on thier server. Every other race played looks forward to the day of becoming a 32 point build, then ofcourse the TR cycles.

Drow dont have much lore precedent for the mark because from what little I know about the setting( one I admit freely to be my least favored of all published D&D settings and hence one I have only played in a few times as if that is the setting being played I am happy to go hit a magic group for that game night then waste my time in a world with talking toasters.), the Mark of Death has been kept intentionally vague and mysterious.

Any good DM though could take that most blatant of open ended info and weave it into a dozen adventure hooks and personalized material for the setting. I see no reason for the MMO to stick within what is written in the books it can be free to grow beyond those limits into anything turbine chooses to give us. We are all free to ask.

But hey here is an alterante vs the mark, howabout drow half dragons yeah at 1750 they get stage 1 half dragon, TR1 ads the 2nd stage, TR2 the 3rd stage, and TR3 for the final. I imagine it 4 stages each with the +2 to strength, kind of like a modified vs of the red dragon disciple prestige class.

If anyone was going to have the sense to breed with a dragon and if a dragon was going to breed with anyone it woulf probably be Drow the giants greatest foe and victim.

and they could get cool dragon wings to

[Dylos_Moon]

The Black Abbot attempting to achieve godhood is questionable in a world where there's no proof of gods... aside from divine power that even those not worshiping a god can acquire.

I actually view this as the Black Abbot attempting to overtake the Blood of Vol, and take Erindis d'Vol's "Godhood" from her. This view is supported by the necropolis series - especially the Emerald Claw's involvement in such.

However, in the end, The Black Abbot lacks several things Erandis has, including the Mark of Death - which she can no longer use for 2 reasons, 1. dragonmarks no longer function when the bearer of the mark becomes undead, and 2. Erandis d'Vol is no longer in her original skin, her mark of death has been separated from her body and is now kept as a sign of what she once was.

Leaving that aside, lets switch to the matter the OP was discussing, the Mark of Death manifesting on Drow. Any bearer of the Mark of Death would quickly find themselves hunted, by the Dragons of Argonnesson, by the Emerald Claw, and by the Blood of Vol. The dragons would want to kill the bearer of the mark, without even verifying that it is indeed the Mark of Death and not an Aberrant Dragonmark, and Erandis' lackies would seek to use the bearer of the mark for Lady Vol - either for revenge on the dragons of argonnesson and the elves, or to potentially bring Erandis d'Vol back to the living.

And this is ignoring the insane power which the Mark of Death processes. Espre from the Lost Mark Trilogy bore the Mark of Death, that or she had the most powerful Aberrant Mark known to all of Eberron, when it first manifested, she almost slew a dragon by touch alone - and she's not even a level 1 character, she is simply a plot device! The Mark of Death only remains as a plot device, it is not intended for player characters, ever.

[Karavek]

It looks like it is an Elven Mark to me and far too powerful to boot...

To powerful? for a drow character who reaches 1750 favor? Id imagine the power to cast a spell like phantasmal killer a few times a day by then wouldnt be that extreme.

Keep in mind a dragon mark that lets players do something like dimension door. You know they removed scrolls of that spell from vendors because it is incredibly powerful. It is kept in the hands of spell casters except in the case of anyone who wants to invest a few feats. Which for me is usually worth it.

Yeah teleporting dimension dooring monks FTW!

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Dylos: Thanks for your interpretation of the Necropolis series. Either I've missed lore, or it's not in game (I know they used to post a lot on the website pre-update) that explains more of what's going on though, although I get enough of the gist to enjoy it.

OP: I'm not anti-drow, I'm just anti-horrible ideas. Not trying to be mean here, but going around suggesting ideas you know won't be accepted isn't the way to get anyone to agree with you. Half-dragon drow? That'd get them killed as fast or faster than if they had the Mark of Death.