This is RIDICULOUS

[Kakashi67]

Man I knew Nazism had to show up here some time .... lol

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Missing_Minds]

The op makes one post then ignores the thread and..... it goes on for 7 pages?

Sounds like we are trying to mimic those self healing bosses.

[knightgf]

Personally I think this game is being ruined by making things to darn easy to accomadate the 8yr olds and such that dont spend the time to learn the basics, understand quests or consider balancing their groups according to the quest needs. Their way is to simply come on here and vent their unhappiness that its too tuff, give me endless resources to help me or a nerf to overcome it like maybe in STK... ooh the flame room is way to hard can u put another trap box before the flames so we can run thro easy to the boss who by the way is too tuff as well can u knock out his DR so we dont need a tactic to overcome him.

Making the game so easy that you dont need to think is what reduces the lifespan of this game, because completion will be done so quickly that players will simply walk away and move onto another.

It surprises me how players still complain how hard a quest is even though they have all sorts of access to easy buttons...they can use self-rezzes, unlock stuff without a rogue or caster, they can buy a whole stack of major mana pots, or cure critical wounds pots, or hell, they can even buy a blasted rest shrine from the DDO store for crying out loud! Compared to today, the level of difficulty back then was VERY different, because there were not all these goodies you could buy from the DDO store let alone in-game. At least it wasn't impossible though, it just took gear and skill to make it through...

I guess the only easy buttons they're missing are the ones that kill mobs instantly without any saves and can bypass any bosses immunities and all that good stuff...if Turbine is serious about their easy buttons, the day we see that in the store is the day a lot of people will get upset and possibly quit...

[Barhai]

That boss is trivial with the right weapons.

His immunities are standard for all red-named monsters and those spells you listed are definitely not the only ways to take him down effectively. The right DR-bypassing weapons and average DPS are all that is needed.

His DR is evil+cold iron. The only weapon in the game that beat his DR is a MinII weapon. Since you need to do devils to flag for the shroud where you'll get the minII weapon... You cannot bypass his DR when doing the quest for the first time.

[Barhai]

A problem I have noted is that on casual, when soloing. Quite a few boss fight seems to be bugged and do not have the proper CR version of the boss fight. I have seen it in Devils and also in Demon's den.

[Visty]

His DR is evil+cold iron. The only weapon in the game that beat his DR is a MinII weapon. Since you need to do devils to flag for the shroud where you'll get the minII weapon... You cannot bypass his DR when doing the quest for the first time.

a metalline dreamedge can

also you could have one of the very rare unholy coldiron weapons

[SINIBYTE]

Man I knew Nazism had to show up here some time .... lol

Godwin's law

Mike Godwin, formulator of the "law".Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably wind up being about Hitler and the Nazis.

[Barhai]

a metalline dreamedge can

also you could have one of the very rare unholy coldiron weapons

So a weapon that drops in a L18 (19?) quest (and good luck getting the metalline one, I haven't seen it out of 12 dream edge drop, pretty sure the metalline version only drops on hard-elite) to do a l16 quest...
Or a weapon so rare it is almost mythical (I bet there's less than one per server).

I say not well thought out quest.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Gave up after three pages of skimming.

Never figured out which boss was the OP complaining about.

Can't do anything about it.

Moral of the story: put the name of the quest in the topic of your post.

[systemstate]

Haha, six pages of posts in and the OP hasn't replied once.

Um.... why did I get neg rep for this?

EDIT: Lol, I was kinda hoping my first ever neg rep would have been for something a little more meaningful. This feels more like a stray bullet from some random drive by shooting.

[TheBroken_JPK]

I'm really trying to figure out what quest this is. I can only think of HIPS, or maybe the miniboss in devil's who does 0 dps, but has a trillion HPs and heals himself. Even the HIPS guy has low DPS, since he is constantly healing himself.

If he heals himself for 300 HP, and you have 2 hezrou that shouldn't be a problem should it? That means you're around level 17, right? 300HP at level 17 is quite literally nothing. How do you know he heals himself for 300? Is this in the combat log(I've never bothered to look).

Is this a lower level quest where 300HP matters? I can't think of any lower level quest where the boss heals himself.

I wish the OP would answer this, lol.

[theb]

Gave up after three pages of skimming.

Never figured out which boss was the OP complaining about.

Can't do anything about it.

Moral of the story: put the name of the quest in the topic of your post.

You missed the good stuff then.

I believe a consensus was reached to make Running with the Devils harder, particularly the trash mobs on normal through elite. Taeron Rimond could use more powerful offensive abilities so that battle doesn't end in a stalemate.

Also, casual mode is currently too hard for some people. Rimond should have a wide selection of candy and flowers to give to passing PC's available upon request and not assume everyone is satisfied with the chocolate hearts and garlands of roses he currently foists upon them.

Or perhaps casual difficulty is too hard for some people to find, in which case an instructional Korthos mini-quest telling them where it is and informing them they aren't entitled to solo every quest on elite with every build would be helpful.

[Alanim]

Gave up after three pages of skimming.

Never figured out which boss was the OP complaining about.

Can't do anything about it.

Moral of the story: put the name of the quest in the topic of your post.

there is only one boss I know of that could be this...

The Eladrin boss at "Running with the devils" He's pretty tough, and the only way to bypass his DR is with greensteel. he also heals endlessly.

I don't think there is any other boss that heals like that :P

[theb]

"Grouping in MMOs is 1d6 players pretending to like each other long enough to start drama over loot."

What does 1d6 mean?

[jjflanigan]

there is only one boss I know of that could be this...

The Eladrin boss at "Running with the devils" He's pretty tough, and the only way to bypass his DR is with greensteel. he also heals endlessly.

I don't think there is any other boss that heals like that :P

I was soloing this on my arcane archer ranger and only managed to kill him because I got 4 20s in rapid succession with the slayer imbue. Otherwise I never would have been able to take him down.

[sirgog]

You missed the good stuff then.

I believe a consensus was reached to make Running with the Devils harder, particularly the trash mobs on normal through elite. Palin Vance could use more powerful offensive abilities so that battle doesn't end in a stalemate.

Also, casual mode is currently too hard for some people. Vance should have a wide selection of candy and flowers to give to passing PC's available upon request and not assume everyone is satisfied with the chocolate hearts and garlands of roses he currently foists upon them.

Or perhaps casual difficulty is too hard for some people to find, in which case an instructional Korthos mini-quest telling them where it is and informing them they aren't entitled to solo every quest on elite with every build would be helpful.

Taeron Riemon is who you are thinking of (Palin Valance is the orange-named Eladrin Paladin halfway through, he selfheals too, but can be killed many ways other than high DPS)/

[theb]

Taeron Riemon is who you are thinking of (Palin Valance is the orange-named Eladrin Paladin halfway through, he selfheals too, but can be killed many ways other than high DPS)/

Oops. Noted.

[William_the_Bat]

You do have to wonder how DDO could detect and end a stalemate.

First, it would have to figure out that it really is a stalemate and you aren't just perched somewhere to try to game the "stalemate detection".

Second, it would have to have an event that can break the stalemate.. maybe the boss calls for reinforcements (capable of kicking your butt), or maybe he runs out of SP, or maybe he goes on some sort of all-out offensive mode where he does nothing but spam searing light until you or he is dead.

Of course, all that takes work.. there's a real question of is it worth that much effort to fix Devils and the handful of other quests with infinitely-healing bosses?

If it bothered me all that much, I'd just go solo devils then put in a bug report ticket when the stalemate becomes apparent. Strangely enough, despite my playing devil's advocate here (bwah ha), it doesn't bother me quite that much.

[Raveneia]

Hello OP where art thou?

I find it weird no more posts from them...

[stainer]

I am a relatively new player(almost a year) and this is my first post on these forums. Normally I'm content to lurk and eat popcorn, but the OP and subsequent posts raise issues that are relavent to others often discussed here and I have decided, for better or worse, to wade into the morass...

DISCLAIMER: I POST WALLS OF TEXT. IF WALLS OF TEXT ARE UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU OR YOU ARE ATTENTION SPAN CHALLENGED PLEASE DISCONTINUE READING NOW AND AVOID ANY FUTURE POSTS MADE BY ME SINCE THEY WILL MOST LIKELY BE WALLS OF TEXT. THANK YOU.

First, let me give props to the DDO vets. I know you guys know what you're doing and play the game well. You have been here in some cases from the start and had to learn about the game through trial and error, have had to suffer through some less than pleasant game changes and are now dealing with an influx of players who are in many cases clueless to all of that and to how the game is played successfully, all while paying $15 or more a month and sometimes feeling no love from Turbine in return for it. The majority of the veteran players I have met have been pretty decent to me by showing patience and a willingness to tolerate less than perfection, thank you for that.

Next, props to Turbine. I commend your efforts to keep this game alive by introducing the "free to play" system which is what convinced me to start playing. I have been and will continue to be critical of some of your efforts for no other reason than to attempt to influence the ongoing development of DDO in a positive manner for your company *and* the players, since that is the only way the game will survive. Thanks for your understanding of this.

I immediately thought of Running With The Devils(RWTD) when I read the OP. There of course are other quests that the OP might be referencing but RWTD is an excellent representative quest to focus on.

RWTD is a raid flagging quest and moreover the loot from it is required to craft greensteel items. Some of the responses to the OP indicated that the quester should just show up to the quest with "plenty of DPS" and its problem solved GG BB. That is way easier said than done. To achieve the required melee damage output for that Eladrin boss pretty much requires greensteel weapons or at least outsider bane weapons and/or DR breakers(which are not at all easy to find on the AH let alone at an affordable price for a newer player, and can not realistically be expected to come out of a chest). So my question is this:

How can a new player be realistically expected to acquire a tier 3 crafted greensteel weapon to defeat that boss when they need to complete that quest to get the greensteel weapon to defeat that boss?

Now I anticipate that most if not all the vets will be thinking something like "well one just needs to get into a good group or join a good guild to do that quest" but this logic only works if the following are true:

A. The quester is okay with grouping and zerging the quest, especially for the first time, which I submit just takes all of the adventure out of it and immediately turns questing into a mechanical exercise which after 10 times of running might be acceptable but rarely, if ever, is the first time to many players including myself.

B. The quester will be accepted into a *competent* group or guild by the MyDDO elitist crowd(you know who you are) which seems to reject out of hand anyone who does not possess 4 years worth of gear and has anything less than a "perfect" build. I mention it because this behavior is becoming more frequent.

C. The quester is not a solo player. Some people prefer to play the game alone to varying degrees for a variety of reasons. This is not unreasonable. MMO is a description of the game in a macro sense not a definition of the game in a micro sense. In addition, what is often referred to as an "easy button" is to many solo and new players a "possible button".

I have personally experienced the problem with that Eladrin boss in RWTD on casual with a level 20 tempest ranger using the best weapons that I could get at the time. I cycled through all of my weapon combos to fight him
and he just kept healing himself before I could kill him. I was not in any real danger of dying until after I ran out of all healing resources including a cleric hireling. I just couldn't kill that boss with any of my 30 bastard swords several of which were 2nd tier GS. That character was my first in DDO and is not a min/max build(which I detest, but have since found to be necessary for end game play just so I can get into raids).

So to sum things up, the situation for new players is most often times as follows:

1. Sub-optimal gear
2. Sub-optimal build
3. Sub-optimal group

That is not to be read as:

1. Junk gear
2. 6con failure build
3. 6 level 13 elf barbarian group

Nor is it:

1. Tier 3 greensteel weapons, 3 Tier 3 greensteel items, litany, torc, bloodstone etc.
2. Exploiter, Monster, Egomaniac builds etc.
3. 6 TR'd level 20s(fighter, ranger, healer, arcane, bard and rogue)

So the question is this:

What is reasonable for a group of new players to expect from the end of a quest after successfully completing 95% of said quest?

The answer is:

They should be able to expect to complete the quest.

and more importantly:

What is reasonable behavior to expect from new players who find it impossible to complete quests that they should reasonably be able to expect to complete?

The answer is:

One can expect some or all of those players to quit playing the game.

Posting smarmy, flippant or simplistic suggestions will not keep those players playing, and more importantly for both Turbine and the veterans, paying for, the game. To rephrase it in clear and certain terms:

If the new players leave, your game will die.

Take some time to ruminate and soak that fact up. This is not your game. This is not my game. This isn't even Turbines game in a non-legal sense. This is our game. All of us who maintain it, play it, and particularly all of us who pay for it to whatever degree, and we all need each other if we are going to keep maintaining it and playing it. Anything less than specific helpful responses to the OP, and any similar posts, works to the detriment of us all.

In that light I offer this suggestion to the OP: Submit a bug report to Turbine regarding the boss in the quest to which you are referring and know that at least one other player feels your pain.

No.