The turning cleric...not a build discussion!

[Torilin]

So after tr'ing my cleric into a more uber version, I have been very impressed with the ability to turn undead. I have turned undead all the way through Orchard and the Couple of random undead in the vale on elite. My focus is a healing cleric, but turning undead gives me an ability like no other, and I might add with Radiant Servant it is quite effective.

My biggest beef with turning undead at this point is, no undead to turn, granted future updates may have some high level undead, which brings me to my point.

The only undead I cannot turn are the giant skellies in the sub t because they are deathwarded. For one thing these undead are already dead, how can they be deathwarded? My second point is at end game content I suspect the devs will basically be making all undead creatures with deathward, and my question is why? This unique ability by clerics should not be completely cut out at end game content.

I realize the devs don't want us running around the sub t with disrupters killing all the skellies, but a cleric not being able to turn them, cause of dw? My solution to this is, instead of a blanket dw on these creatures, why not just give them a disruption ward?

Please allow clerics that can turn, turn undead as it is our right as devine adventurers to send these creatures back to death.

[Visty]

if they would want us to kill every mob with just 1 strike, they would give the mobs just only 1 hp

and they can be deathwarded because someone buffed them

and creating an disruption ward is prolly not possible, at least now without massive ressource drain



cast a few heals on them, and they are gone

[AyumiAmakusa]

Have you even stepped in Necropolis?

[Torilin]

Have you even stepped in Necropolis?

, not

Well if u read the post u would see that the orchard is in necropolis, and as a matter of fact, I turn undead in Abbot elite, not sure if there is a higher level quest in necropolis that that, maybe I will have to check.

[grodon9999]

, not

Well if u read the post u would see that the orchard is in necropolis, and as a matter of fact, I turn undead in Abbot elite, not sure if there is a higher level quest in necropolis that that, maybe I will have to check.

What's your CHR?

[AyumiAmakusa]

, not

Well if u read the post u would see that the orchard is in necropolis, and as a matter of fact, I turn undead in Abbot elite, not sure if there is a higher level quest in necropolis that that, maybe I will have to check.

Must've missed the Orchard mention.
Apologies.

[Torilin]

if they would want us to kill every mob with just 1 strike, they would give the mobs just only 1 hp

we one shot creatures all the time, heard of finger of death, destruction, vorrpals, smiters, disrupters and others shall i go on.

cast a few heals on them, and they are gone

its not the point, I can kill all this stuff easily enough, the point is clerics have this unique ability that basically gets shut down at end game.

[Torilin]

What's your CHR?

His name is Unitus, my ddo is a wonderful thing!

[Visty]

we one shot creatures all the time, heard of finger of death, destruction, vorrpals, smiters, disrupters and others shall i go on.

and thats why 85% of the mobs have blanket immunities against those from GH upwards

[Ukenburger]

The only undead I cannot turn are the giant skellies in the sub t because they are deathwarded. For one thing these undead are already dead, how can they be deathwarded? My second point is at end game content I suspect the devs will basically be making all undead creatures with deathward, and my question is why? This unique ability by clerics should not be completely cut out at end game content.

They come with a Caster Level 7 Death Ward. It is a pretty easy one to dispel if you wish to decimate them with Turn Undead.

[shores11]

The only undead I cannot turn are the giant skellies in the sub t because they are deathwarded. For one thing these undead are already dead, how can they be deathwarded? My second point is at end game content I suspect the devs will basically be making all undead creatures with deathward, and my question is why? This unique ability by clerics should not be completely cut out at end game content.

I realize the devs don't want us running around the sub t with disrupters killing all the skellies, but a cleric not being able to turn them, cause of dw? My solution to this is, instead of a blanket dw on these creatures, why not just give them a disruption ward?

Please allow clerics that can turn, turn undead as it is our right as devine adventurers to send these creatures back to death.

I am not sure why your having this problem because I built my cleric to be a healer and a cleric that is specced in turn undead. I can turn the undead in the subterrane fairly easily. Dead ward has nothing to do with turning undead.

[grodon9999]

They come with a Caster Level 7 Death Ward. It is a pretty easy one to dispel if you wish to decimate them with Turn Undead.

Seriously? Didn't know this could even be dispelled, thanks.

I don't mean to take this too far off topic but can the DWard on other mobs be removed with a dispel magic?

[bunitchu]

well, why the heck death ward the undeads?

As far as i know, deathward effects are:
1-protect from neg levels from energy drain and other things;
2-protect from necromancy school spells, such as FoD, WoB, list goes on


but undeads...by race, should have it already, not needing the buff though. Its pretty redundant to give undead something they already have by nature...unless ddo undeads are special and dont have the proper immunities that they should have. And death ward doesnt affect turn undead as far as i remember...or is it another big "woopsie" from the devs?

also, may i add, undeads with their natural deathward effects, still die by implosion...so y the heck does death ward stop it? I remeber laughing when neverwinter nights gave DAH BIG NERF on implosion by making undead immune to it and death ward spell to protect against it, specially because that wasnt there before and then suddenly, they changed it.


some things need to be thought over on this game....but if they do, they are cappable of making undeads immune to implosion already instead of removing implosion from the "protect against it" list from death ward, which i believe would b utterly wrong

[Fenrisulven6]

Please allow clerics that can turn, turn undead as it is our right as devine adventurers to send these creatures back to death.

/signed

Its embarassing that my clerics have to take Halt Undead clickies into Delera's.

[parvo]

/signed

Its embarassing that my clerics have to take Halt Undead clickies into Delera's.

You should be embarassed. Reroll and spec right.

If I read it correctly a reincarnated cleric adds +2 to turning level and they can stack that three times. That's sick. I don't know all the bonuses at end game but a level 20 reincarnated cleric could destroy (not turn which is so often misused term) undead with hit dice = 38+

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264037

[Fenrisulven6]

You should be embarassed. Reroll and spec right.

No. There's nothing wrong with the way my clerics are built.

Its a simple truth that at mid-level, Halt Undead clickies are more efffective than max spec'd turning.

a reincarnated cleric adds +2 to turning level and they can stack that three times.

You even admit its gimped, by implying a cleric needs to reincarnate three times to be effective. For Delera's? Please....



Then you go asking in another thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264037 obviously ignorant of what I'm talking about. The responses are similar to mine:

I made her with a high cha for turning, had the improved turning feat, had multiple improved turning enhancements, and was carrying any and all gear I could to boost it's effectiveness. Even with all this, by mid-level, any time I tried to turn something the same level or even only a couple below mine, I was still unable to do more than scare a group of undead if I was lucky.

Halt undead scrolls can disable all skeletons in the room without a single build point investment.

So have a clue what you're talking about before you tell someone "reroll"



/before you go pound sand, please advise me of good server (other than Thelanis) for Permadeath. I'm ready to try it.

[bunitchu]

well, as for the final quote u posted man, from the guy trying to turn who could only manage to "scare the undeads"...prolly because turn, before radiant servants, could only do that much unless he was twice the level of the undead, which by mid game, is rare...to nearly non existant. because mid game i take to be lvl 8 to 15, and the cleric would need to b 16 to 30(not doable) to actually manage to destroy a undead from mid game.

here is the description of turn undead:

Activate this cleric ability to drive away undead. To turn undead you must make a turning check (roll 1 twenty-sided die + your total Charisma modifier) to determine the Hit Dice of the most powerful undead you can effect. Then you roll 2 six-sided dice + your cleric level + your Charisma modifier to determine the total Hit Dice of creatures in the area that you can turn. Turned undead flee. If you have twice as many levels as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn.

so resuming things, when u tr and gain 2 to ur turn undead checks, its not for the level of the caster, but for the 1d20 + cha bonus to determine the hit dices of what can b turned, so a cleric TRed once, with past life for more effectiveness on turn undead would have:

1d20 + cha mod + 2 for determining whats the max hit dice he can turn
2d6 + cleric level + cha mod + 2 for determine how many creatures will actually b affected by this

but with radiant servant, thats over, because with that PrE u can actually destroy undeads with ur turn attempts instead of scare them, without the need to be twice their level.

so a cleric with a starter of 14 cha, +6 from item, +2 from tome, +item for imp turning(like sacred items)+ acumulative past life feat(lets assume 3 times) can reach 6(cha mod) + 2 +6 = 14 + 1d20...so he can automatically destroy undeads with 15 or less hit dices, and easy enough get to the 20+ hit dice undeads with a big chance of suscess....unless he is really bad at rolling a d20

btw, 1 thing for any devs reading this to consider...the improved turning enhancement:

improved turning enhancement from compendum:
You add +1 to your cleric level when attempting to turn undead.

common...the level of the cleric only implies on the amount of undead he can turn at once, and what undeads he would "destroy" without the rs enhancement....i dont think a lvl 15, with 14 start cha, +2 tome, +6 item cleric will actually pull over 23 undead around him for turning them (23 = 15 from cleric level +2 from rolls of a d6(i assumed worst case scenario of rolling 1 on both) + 6 cha mod), and i dont think that ppl without RS will actually bother using turn undead at all since the effect is beyond crapness unless it can actually destroy them, so how about changing this to +1 to turning attempts to actually help the first roll (1d20 + cha +item), because thats the roll that matters for ppl who actually bother to use turn undead for something other than the aura/burst/DM/list goes on... And b4 anybody says "overkillZOMGclericswillrapeallundeadzzzzz!!!!oneO NEshift!!!!"...so what? That turn only affects undeads and unless they are a majority on end game, what diff does this make?

[Fenrisulven6]

but with radiant servant, thats over, because with that PrE u can actually destroy undeads with ur turn attempts instead of scare them, without the need to be twice their level.

Right, but this only emphasizes how broken Turning is.

At mid-level, the primary benefit of RS is group-burst healing, yet its secondary role (vs undead) is still more effective than Turning.

I use RS but still find Halt Undead clicks more effective. But I just think its counter-intuitive that an arcane spell is more effective vs undead than any spell a cleric has.

[Thechemicals]

I agree that the dead should not benefit from deathward. However, this game is already too easy so an option to bypass deathward so you can one shot the undead with your custom elite turnundead skills is just not going to make this game a challenge.

[Sirea]

His name is Unitus, my ddo is a wonderful thing!

You know in less time than it took you to type that, you could have just typed out his Charisma score and been done with it