Rogue/Wiz Build Advise

[LaryTrueman]

Hey Guys, I'm trying to build a Wizard that starts out with 1 or 2 rogue levels in order to be able to find+disarm traps... now I'm wondering should I take 2 levels of rogue for evasion or just one level for a more powerful wizard and earlier access to crucial spells?
How important is this one wizard level throughout the later game compared to evasion? Since this one level of rogue will give me only some extra skill points I won't be able to max out as a wiz and the ability of using the dex 1 enhancement.

Thanks in Advance,
Lary

[PopeJual]

Evasion is outstanding and very useful throughout all of the game if you have a nice reflex save.

Getting those spells earlier is a very big deal, though... especially with Wall of Fire.

I'd suggest taking 1 level of Rogue, wait till Firewall and then take your second level of Rogue (or just keep putting it off for as long as you can stand not having evasion).

there are a few very nice basic Rogue2/Wizard 18 builds on the Wizard forum.

[blitzschlag]

Hey Guys, I'm trying to build a Wizard that starts out with 1 or 2 rogue levels in order to be able to find+disarm traps... now I'm wondering should I take 2 levels of rogue for evasion or just one level for a more powerful wizard and earlier access to crucial spells?
How important is this one wizard level throughout the later game compared to evasion? Since this one level of rogue will give me only some extra skill points I won't be able to max out as a wiz and the ability of using the dex 1 enhancement.

Thanks in Advance,
Lary

2 levels of rogue (1st lvl and maybe around 9 or 11)
low dex
high con
max int
some points in str if you have leftovers
insightful reflexes feat

max
concentration 1point/level
umd 2 points/level
search 2 points/level
disable device 2 points/level
balance some odd points here
open lock some odd points here too.

[LaryTrueman]

I see... good idea with the later 2nd level and the insightful reflexes!

Thank you two!
Gonna try this out

[Otherworld]

2 rogue levels definitely. The 2nd lvl of rogue gives more than your 19th lvl of wizard.

Wiz18/Rog2 is a tried build and works well, certainly if you're wf.

The dex1 enchancement, I personally wouldn't take as ap is pretty tight.

Also, be sure to get insightful reflexes as then your saves are high enough for evasion to be useful.

EDIT: Others beat me to it. Too slow.

[Darkrok]

I personally prefer rogue 2 at character level 9. You've just gotten firewall and you can spend a feat at that level. That's when I take rogue 2 AND insightful reflexes as the reflex save without evasion or the evasion without the reflex save are both lackluster. Might as well grab both at the same time.

[Entelech]

(1) You're going to be tight on feats. It might be a good idea to plan out your build in detail now, so you don't end up making a mistake or missing a prerequisite early on.

(2) Odds are that, no matter how many feats you burn, your melee capability will be nonexistant at anywhere above level 12 if you go Rog 2 Wiz 18. You'll want to focus on spellcasting, or possibly Arcane Archer if you're an Elf. Given this focus on spellcasting, what are your "must-have" spellcasting feats? Will you go with Pale Master or not? The time to start thinking about this is now, before you roll the character.

(3) Do you want to invest the two feats to get Trapmaking and its' prerequisite? You'll have enough Wizard levels to collect your own soul gems to make the traps, which puts you ahead of a pure Rogue in one respect.

(4) What about other Rogue skills? Diplomacy and Haggle are both skills that would be quite handy for an aspiring Wizard, and Hide and Move Silently can be devastatingly effective in concert with summoned allies. And then, of course, there's use Magic Device... Which ones do you want to keep at useful levels? Heck, just getting a decent Balance or Jump skill is a survival aid.

[PopeJual]

(1) You're going to be tight on feats. It might be a good idea to plan out your build in detail now, so you don't end up making a mistake or missing a prerequisite early on.

(2) Odds are that, no matter how many feats you burn, your melee capability will be nonexistant at anywhere above level 12 if you go Rog 2 Wiz 18. You'll want to focus on spellcasting, or possibly Arcane Archer if you're an Elf. Given this focus on spellcasting, what are your "must-have" spellcasting feats? Will you go with Pale Master or not? The time to start thinking about this is now, before you roll the character.

I just started using a Vorpal sword and a Divine Power clicky and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It lets me save my spell points for real fights and I can still contribue to a party/take care of myself against trash.

(3) Do you want to invest the two feats to get Trapmaking and its' prerequisite?

Answer: No, you do not. 50d6 might sound like a lot of damage, but it isn't. One spell should be doing more damage than that on its own by the time you get to the level where you could potentially produce a 50d6 trap. Stick to Wall of Fire, Polar Ray, Mass Hold Person/Monster, etc. and leave the trap making to people who enjoy spending 4 hours putting together a trap or grenade that will shave 5 seconds of a quest that they can already complete without the trap/grenade.

(4) What about other Rogue skills? Diplomacy and Haggle are both skills that would be quite handy for an aspiring Wizard, and Hide and Move Silently can be devastatingly effective in concert with summoned allies. And then, of course, there's use Magic Device... Which ones do you want to keep at useful levels? Heck, just getting a decent Balance or Jump skill is a survival aid.

Skills listed in order of importance to my play style:
Concentration
Use Magic Device
Search
Use Magic Device
Disable Device
Use Magic Device
Open Locks (only need to keep 1/2 ranks in this at most)
Use Magic Device
Balance
Use Magic Device
Move Silently
Use Magic Device
Hide
Use Magic Device
and, of course...
Use Magic Device

[hermespan]

Evasion is outstanding and very useful throughout all of the game if you have a nice reflex save.

Getting those spells earlier is a very big deal, though... especially with Wall of Fire.

I'd suggest taking 1 level of Rogue, wait till Firewall and then take your second level of Rogue (or just keep putting it off for as long as you can stand not having evasion).

there are a few very nice basic Rogue2/Wizard 18 builds on the Wizard forum.

As a wizard you have great resists (spells). You don't need evasion much because you'll be disarming the traps and you have the forementioned resists, though it won't help you with force traps that can't be disabled (like in The Pit) and water blade traps (GH quest water traps and traps in hiding in plain sight). You can get through these with hitpoints and potions (which can be drunk under water)

These are rare enough not to care about, especially if you do what you should and take some con to get decent hit points. Once you get GH, keep yourself GH'd to improve your saves with traps.

I'd just roll with 1 level of rogue and take the extra spellpoints you'll get with the added level of wizard.

Most of the stuff you'd need evasion for you'll be fine with, without evasion. If it's not working out for you, you can take the second level of rogue at level 20 or any time before. I'd go to 1/9 get firewall and if you feel like you need evasion, take the second level of rogue at level 11. Remember to not take rogue skills for a number of levels before (depending on how many skillpoints you get per rogue level) so you can use your skillpoints efficiently. Put them into jump, balance and concentration during this time.

Make him warforged and you'll have a winner (self heals without umd using reconstruct and hold-person/fear immunity):
Warforged are naturally immune to sleep, energy drain, nausea, sickness, exhaustion, poison, disease, and paralysis effects.

A held or otherwise immobilized wizard is a dead wizard. A fleshie wizard without gear is hard to solo sometimes because you'll get held.

WF Wiz are super against beholders as a caster (about all they can do to you is disintegrate and throw you around), immune to troglodyte slowdown. You are still vulnerable to web and some other stuff so try to get the Kundarak Delver's boots (full time FoM). I have them on my caster and they rock.

Just my HO based on my experience with rogue multiclass and with my warforged wizard. I have absolutely no *need* for UMD on him, though it would be nice to have taken a level of rogue and UMD so I could res dead teammates, and use restricted items. I don't miss it much. If I had taken a level of rogue on my wizard (which I didn't because I want the capstone) I'd have definitely developed UMD.

Make sure you don't want the wizard capstone before you do this multiclass. a 1/19 R/W is a supreme soloer once he gets firewall. You will own Menechtarun and other mid-high level outdoor areas, as well as some of the quests. You may just want to take a warforged tank henchie to keep stuff busy while you kill it. You'll be able to keep him up that way with repair/reconstruct :-p