Max Dextery as a Monk - Suggestions?

[Mobeius]

Its just so hard lol, they are viable dont get me wrong I just find the benefits of STR to outway the benifits of Dex/Wis 2 fold. But at the OP's request that is the most I will say.

Agreed, thats why i said 16 for max dex.

[Zippo]

Dextery

You keep talking about Dexter, so what kind of Dexter are you looking for?




Mad serial killer type Dexter or....





Mad scientist cartoon Dexter?

[Odin's_Hugin]

Well, I cant live without my amazing footspeed and haste-like combat.

I also hate WF's or Dwarves, or Half-Orcs, which would give me Str.

I like to be agile, stunning and evasive: as I think a monk should be. I dont want a barbarian-like monk with a few differences here and there.


Either way... you guys seems to value CON a lot. I wonder why is that.

[butlerfamilywa]

1d8 hitpoints per level, 160 at level 20 + Con modifier, ect

+20 hps per 2 points into con. Simple enough.

[Syntax42]

Ewww Dex based... shudder...

This debate has been done before. In end-game gear, it came down to a few points of damage, compared to a few AC and to-hit. The damage difference was almost negligible because of the elemental sources of damage coming from ToD rings and good handwraps.

While leveling, though, a dex/wis monk has a few advantages over str/con. First, their AC should be easier to reach a useful amount. Second, their DC for stunning fist will allow them to do more damage than a strength monk could. Finally, their reflex save will be high enough to avoid most traps while leveling.


Strength doesn't have to be on a WF or dwarf. Dark and touch of death does not have to be on a strength monk.

[Sylvenon]

Dark and touch of death does not have to be on a strength monk.

Could not agree more. My little Halfling, Dex/Wis Dark Monk pops of Touch of Death every 15 sec just fine on bosses by switching to Fire Stance with Haste..and has Ki enough to spare that Storm Strike I-IV and Fist of Darkness are cycled repeatedly while waiting for the Touch of Death timer. The rest of the time, it's Grand Master Wind Stance, and a 40 DC on Stunning Fist...

I might roll a Str Monk just to see what all the noise is about though.

[Hydro]

STR Monk:

More DPS (Especially Fortified Raid Bosses)
More HP
Extra Feat
Higher to Hit (self buffed)
+2 To Overrun DC's (Find me a Dex Monk that can stand toe to toe with Queen Lailat)
+1 To Fortitude Saves (Great for Epic Beholders)

STR Monk in Fire Stance with Jidz bracers:

25% more healing amp


DEX Monk:

Decent AC while leveling, and good endgame AC if you sacrifice some HP and DPS.
Stunning Fist vs. Stunning Blow (Shorter Cooldown)

[Mobeius]

Dex monk is more than likely a halfling with the SA racial line as well and epic raid bosses fort will be in place as well.

[bandyman1]

STR Monk:

More DPS (Especially Fortified Raid Bosses)
More HP
Extra Feat
Higher to Hit (self buffed) Not so sure about this one
+2 To Overrun DC's (Find me a Dex Monk that can stand toe to toe with Queen Lailat)
+1 To Fortitude Saves (Great for Epic Beholders)

STR Monk in Fire Stance with Jidz bracers:

25% more healing amp


DEX Monk:

Decent AC while leveling, and good endgame AC if you sacrifice some HP and DPS.
Stunning Fist vs. Stunning Blow (Shorter Cooldown)
Higher DCs on specials
Much more viable reflex saves
Higher DPS vs. non-fort mobs

Fixed, and:

Look man; We get that you perfer Str-based monk. There's nothing wrong with that.

But there's nothing wrong with a Dex/Wis monk either.

[Hydro]

Fixed, and:

Look man; We get that you perfer Str-based monk. There's nothing wrong with that.

But there's nothing wrong with a Dex/Wis monk either.

Here we go again...

Halfling STR Monk

STR Monk:

16 Starting STR + 5 Level Ups + 4 Fire Stance + 7 Item + 3 Tome + 3 Exceptional =

38 STR = 14 to hit

20 Centered BAB
14 STR Bonus
01 Halfling
05 Weapon
-5 Power Attack
______________
35 To Hit
+
04 Greater Hero
01 Rage
01 Yugloth Pot
01 Single Madstone
________________
42 To Hit Self Buffed
+
16 Sneak Attacking
_________________
58 To Hit With Sneak Attack
+
01 Double Madstone
03 Titans Grip
__________________
62 To Hit Situational With SA

Dex Monk:

20 Base DEX + 5 Level Ups + 4 Wind Stance + 7 Item + 3 Tome + 1 Exceptional + 2 Halfling =

42 Dex = 16 to hit

20 Centered BAB
16 Dex Bonus
01 Halfling
05 Weapon
-5 Power Attack
______________
37 To Hit
+
04 Greater Hero
_______________
41 to Hit Self Buffed
+
16 Sneak Attacking
_________________
57 to hit with Sneak Attack


All those number assume the Dex based halfling has the enhancement points to spend for racial Dex enhancements and is willing to put the points in to start with a 20 dex, which most dont. Also the STR build has an extra feat that he could spend on Weapon Focus if he needed.

Now if we wanted to get really technical I could also mention how the Dex based monk will be forced into the Oremi's set for the ki generation while a STR fire monk can use the Shintao set which is a further +2 to hit and damage.

Dex Based Monk Caps at 57 To hit with sneak attack..

Str Based Monk sits at 58 to hit with sneak attack, easily could get another +3 with Shintao Cord and Weapon Focus Blunt, along with another +4 situational to hit. For a situationally possible 65 to hit.

And yes both specs require gear and consumables for the STR based monk, but I do not give advice for those who are not willing to maximize their character...

[rimble]

Here we go again...

Halfling STR Monk

STR Monk:

16 Starting STR

Dex Monk:

18 Base DEX

Didn't bother reading beyond this biased unequal start. Doesn't help that I'm tired of it.

[Hydro]

Didn't bother reading beyond this biased unequal start. Doesn't help that I'm tired of it.

There numbers are updated with 20 dex which no halfling monk I have ever heard of starts with. Dont quote me and spread misinformation if you are not going to at least read my post...

Even with a 20 starting dex the STR monk still comes ahead by a good margin, so try again.

[rimble]

Even with a 20 starting dex the STR monk still comes ahead by a good margin, so try again.

I've had a Str Halfling and a Dex Halfling. I prefer the Str. I'm not trying to refute anything, rather guide you towards making a fair comparison--like the obvious conclusion that Str CAN be equal to Dex after a few Str-specific buffs that Dex can't benefit from (+3 Exc Str vs +1 Exc Dex, want to explain that one too? I'm not saying you can't, but it helps if you do.)

And even though I personally prefer a Str Halfling, I'm still capable of contributing towards the OPs request. Consider trying that some time. It's an open forum, post whatever you want, but I'm just tired of people that JUST CAN'T STAND if someone else plays a way they consider suboptimal. Let it go. I'm done side-tracking on this one.


I think I still stand by the stat array I posted earlier. Seems good to me. As for Con...well, I went with 15 and +3 tome for the Tier IV Earth Strikes. On most builds I like a 14 minimum for hit points, but on a Monk it's actually more to get those strikes. Having those stat requirements on the stances kinda changes things up for Monks...makes you reconsider some min-maxing depending on the stances you want...you might even spread a level up point or two around to meet them, rather than focusing on one like usual.

[Hydro]

I've had a Str Halfling and a Dex Halfling. I prefer the Str. I'm not trying to refute anything, rather guide you towards making a fair comparison--like the obvious conclusion that Str CAN be equal to Dex after a few Str-specific buffs that Dex can't benefit from (+3 Exc Str vs +1 Exc Dex, want to explain that one too? I'm not saying you can't, but it helps if you do.)

And even though I personally prefer a Str Halfling, I'm still capable of contributing towards the OPs request. Consider trying that some time. It's an open forum, post whatever you want, but I'm just tired of people that JUST CAN'T STAND if someone else plays a way they consider suboptimal. Let it go.

Epic Cloak of the Roc +2 Exceptional STR, My monk has one... No place to get +2 Exceptional to DEX currently...

DEX can and will never be equal to STR since you will always loose a fair amount of damage and a feat going DEX.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Epic Cloak of the Roc +2 Exceptional STR, My monk has one... No place to get +2 Exceptional to DEX currently...

DEX can and will never be equal to STR since you will always loose a fair amount of damage and a feat going DEX.

And the dex monk will 3x outrun you and hit anything 3 times while you hit 1.

The purpose of the topic wasnt to debate about monk lines. I prefer DEX

It was only to question how much Dex is necessary to make a Dex/Wis monk well balanced.

[Hydro]

And the dex monk will 3x outrun you and hit anything 3 times while you hit 1.

The purpose of the topic wasnt to debate about monk lines. I prefer DEX

It was only to question how much Dex is necessary to make a Dex/Wis monk well balanced.

Huh wind stance monks run no faster then a Fire monk with haste and they potentially have a slightly lower to hit. Never seen someone make up stuff just cause they cant accept STR based monks are superior in almost every way aspect. But hey you have fun believeing your imaginary rules, personally I respect both monk builds but I cant deny STR based superiority.

If you want to make a Dex monk start with an 18-20 dex with all level ups in it if you are planning on running epics. If you dont plan on running epics then to hit should never be an issue.

[Odin's_Hugin]

Huh wind stance monks run no faster then a Fire monk with haste and they potentially have a slightly lower to hit. Never seen someone make up stuff just cause they cant accept STR based monks are superior in almost every way aspect. But hey you have fun believeing your imaginary rules, personally I respect both monk builds but I cant deny STR based superiority.

If you want to make a Dex monk start with an 18-20 dex with all level ups in it if you are planning on running epics. If you dont plan on running epics then to hit should never be an issue.

I didnt say "to-hit", did I? I said Wind monks hit more times per time frame, because they attack faster. So while a non-wind makes X attacks in Y seconds, a wind monk gives X + Z attacks in the same Y seconds.

And give the wind and the fire monk Haste and let's see who runs faster.

[ProdigalGuru]

Void Strikes line requires very balanced stats.

[Mobeius]

And give the wind and the fire monk Haste and let's see who runs faster.

If they are the same level with same stride % it will be the same, however Earth monks do move slower. Im not sure were you are getting this.

FYI Windstance primarily just allows a greater percentage of off hand strikes now, its not a haste buff anymore.

[Hydro]

I didnt say "to-hit", did I? I said Wind monks hit more times per time frame, because they attack faster. So while a non-wind makes X attacks in Y seconds, a wind monk gives X + Z attacks in the same Y seconds.

And give the wind and the fire monk Haste and let's see who runs faster.

Wow you really are clueless...

Wind Stances increase in attack speed does not stack with haste, so in a group situation a Wind Stance Monk and a Fire Stance Monk get the exact same number of base attacks. Wind stance does give the added benefit of a 10% Double Strike Proc on your main hand only.

The double strike proc is nice but for a STR based monk the extra to 2 to hit and damage can mean the difference between hitting on a 2 vs. a 4 in an epic dungeon. If you never plan on running epics or use dex as your to hit stat then Wind Stance is the superior stat.

Fire Stance does have lots of added benefits which is why I highly reccomend it for STR based monks especially for those wanting to run epics. Not only does Fire Stance give +2 to damage, it gives +2 to hit if STR is your main stat, it gives you great ki regen which frees up your neck slot from using Oremi's, it give 20 more hp (vs. Wind), +1 to Fort Saves (vs. Wind), and with the right gear it also gives an additional stacking 25% healing amp.

The monk increased movement ability is base line and does not require a wind or fire stance to use, but as the poster said above me earth stance will slow you down. Earth stance is only used for tanking raid bosses (yes my monk tanks all raid bosses even Horoth) only and for most monks the only reason to max earth path is for the Earth Strikes which happen to be your highest DPS strikes int he games.

Sounds like you might be a bit rusty on your monk knowledge so I would reccomend reading my "Metaru" monk guide. I understand that my build might not be what you are looking for but there is a ton of good information and monk advice in there that might help you make a decision.

My Build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340