Jumping between DPS/Intimitank?

[MrWizard]

as Mr Wizard pointed out, the posted build was the kensai version, based on my stalwart defender. The stalwart version starts with a 43 intimidate on the planner.

43
+5 cha bonus (+6 item, +2 exceptional item, +2 yugo pot)
+15 skill item
+4 GH
+2 bard song
+6 shroud skill item

= 75 (fixed - oops, math involved)

need to find 4 more. I suppose airship buffs, house pots, and something else i'm missing would do it. It's not pretty, but it can be done.

I think that comes out wrong...more in the 60s at most...not sure how you got 43 in there.

[krud]

the 43 comes from my stalwart 12ftr/6pal/2rog build (not posted).

23 base
4 cha (14 starting cha, +2 pal enhance, +2 tome)
2 bullheaded feat
3 skill focus feat
4 fighter intimIV
2 human dragonmark
1 deneith intim enh
4 stalwart II

The kensai version starts at a 40 (minus 4 for stalwart, plus 2 for kensai, minus 1 for intimIII). I'm guessing that with every possible buff and item applied even the kensai version could reach epic dq intimidate.

[MrWizard]

the 43 comes from my stalwart 12ftr/6pal/2rog build (not posted).

23 base
4 cha (14 starting cha, +2 pal enhance, +2 tome)
2 bullheaded feat
3 skill focus feat
4 fighter intimIV
2 human dragonmark
1 deneith intim enh
4 stalwart II

The kensai version starts at a 40 (minus 4 for stalwart, plus 2 for kensai, minus 1 for intimIII). I'm guessing that with every possible buff and item applied even the kensai version could reach epic dq intimidate.

Okay, makes a bit more sense... did not see some of that in the build.

[OnlineGamer]

I have invested a lot of time recently trying to find an intimidate build that was fun to play.

A few things I discovered during this process:

1. Weapon Finess build - while potentially viable this build was not very fun to play and impacted the ability to do reasonable dps. Personal preference here is cleave and greater cleave. These add significantly to the fun of an intimidate build and anything without these options lacks fun (paralysing 10 mobs at once in Ataraxia is definately fun for everyone).

2. Straight Fighter - while potentially viable a straight fighter build takes a significant amount of damage on fights where reflex saves are required (even if saves are continually made). Since the Stalward Defender tops out at Fighter level 18, you are clearly taunted by the game mechanics to grab two rogue levels for evasion. Monk may be viable but I do not have access to Monk as of yet.

3. Weapons - I much prefer Dwarven axes, however the build is just as much fun with battle axes. If your preference is for exotic weapons, it is reasonable to trade out some of the final feats (mobility and spring attack) for some form of weapon proficiency. This will also improve your dps if you don't run around all the time like I do. My personal preference was to take both mobility and spring attack very early on in the build (within the first 4 levels).

4. Dwarfs - While it is possible to create a workable build, this race in not the optimum race for an intimitank due to the difficulty to reach a high starting charisma. I will be working on one in the near future, but believe the final outcome will be the need for +4 charisma tome and epic (crafted) gear before the build will work reasonably for raids. This build will likely have to leach by faking dps / tanking abilities until it becomes epic.

5. Tomes - no tomes are really needed to start off with. The +1 int tome is really handy, but if one will not be available then you could trade out the starting ability of something else for one more int. Note: It is important to maintain a minimum of 13 for strength, dexterity, constitution and intelligence. There are feats used that require these base numbers. The +2 charisma tome (or better if you have access to them) should be considered mandatory.

6. Build Progression in EPIC - as this build progresses with epic gear that increases your intimidate skills above 81, it becomes possible to trade out intimidation based feats for additional toughness (or other) feats. This involves a cost per feat change, but is reasonable and will increase the builds surviveability.

7. DPS - this build will never be much for dps and killing anything with health regeneration will be a challenge, however it is possible to drop your shield and use a two handed weapon to increase your dps. 100+ crit damage should be possible with good weapons.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             13                 14                   16
Dexterity            14                 16                   17
Constitution         14                 16                   17
Intelligence         13                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             16                 23                   24

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    25
Bluff                 3                     7
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             3                     7
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle                3                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            7                    51
Jump                  5                    16
Listen                3                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                     6
Spot                  3                     3
Swim                  5                    12
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      7                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 10 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Resilience
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation III


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation IV
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[Kinnel01]

Can I assume that lack of comment on my build back at post 14 means there are no glaring holes in the build, assuming wise equipment/enhancement choices?

[krud]

Can I assume that lack of comment on my build back at post 14 means there are no glaring holes in the build, assuming wise equipment/enhancement choices?

initial thoughts: Your ability raises are all over the place. Best to stick with your main stat, which for any fighter will be strength (even on an intimitank). Rely on tomes to boost your minor stats. You will inevitably come across some +1 tomes for your other stats. You can even stick with THF until you come across a +2 dex tome, and put all your level up ability raises into strength.

added - I'm not sure what more you get from 14ftr vs 12ftr/2 something else. There is a reason why 12/6/2 is such a popular split. Don't worry about doing traps if you take rogue levels. No one will expect you to handle traps on a build like that. Just take it for the umd, evasion, and maybe 7 or 8 ranks in open lock. If that still isn't appealing you can always splash 2 monk for evasion and the two bonus feats, Either of those two are of enough benefit to give up the two fighter levels

[OnlineGamer]

initial thoughts: Your ability raises are all over the place. Best to stick with your main stat, which for any fighter will be strength (even on an intimitank). Rely on tomes to boost your minor stats. You will inevitably come across some +1 tomes for your other stats. You can even stick with THF until you come across a +2 dex tome, and put all your level up ability raises into strength.

The main ability on an intimi tank is charisma not strength. Fighters have three action point talents to increase strength if desired, but strength is not something an intimi tank needs nor should be stacking.

[Morlen]

The main ability on an intimitank is charisma not strength. Fighters have three action point talents to increase strength if desired, but strength is not something an intimi tank needs nor should be stacking.

Strength is important against many effects, such as knockdown. Also, there is very little argument for boosting a fighter's charisma as high as your are suggesting without strength. Sure it bolsters your intimidate and UMD scores, but most characters achieve desirable levels in these skills with a MUCH lower charisma. (My dwarf has a base 6 charisma and still has a 40 UMD/70 intimidate.)

If you are skimping so much on your strength it will make you a lackluster intimitank. Sure the intimidating part will come out great, but the tank part will be non-existant. There are not a large amount of quests that require an intimidater, and even fewer that need one with scores so high. Without strength you will be a hamper in groups running any other quest that need DPS (err... EVERY quest.)

I'm not saying that you can't build a pure intimi/wall, I am just pointing out that strength should in no way be a stat left low on a fighter's build. But hey, it's your build so you can do what you want with it. ^_^

Can I assume that lack of comment on my build back at post 14 means there are no glaring holes in the build, assuming wise equipment/enhancement choices?

Some suggestions:

Although you noted a disinterest in using rogue levels for lack of skill points for trap monkey skills, keep in mind that no one would expect you to be able to do those things as an tank with two rogue levels. Don't underestimate the value of two levels for evasion and a higher UMD score. You would lose a feat going this way, but most players would agree that from your build Oversized Two Weapon Fighting is not needed.

As for skills, it may be a good idea to twink your stats slightly to make a 13 intelligence and then get your hands on a +1 int tome by level three. I would then suggest maxing out your intimidate and UMD skills every level, then splitting the remaining points between jump and balance. (Yes balance is a very important skill to have, but I don't believe it needs to be maxed out to be efficient. Someone stop me if I'm wrong here. ^_^) And anyway, your rogue levels will grant you a few extra points in balance as it is not a cross skill for them.

Also, I just noticed that you didn't use UMD at all. Don't underestimate this skill either. You will already be going out of your way to get better charisma skill scores because of intimidate, so you should take advantage of that for UMD. The ability to cast heal scrolls, greater heroism scrolls, and teleport scrolls is increadibly valuable. I know that with paladin levels your ability to self heal will be strong with a few lay on hands and wand whipping/pots, just remember that in a pinch heal scrolls are much quicker when you have to help the party out.

Anyway, those are just a few of my opinions. Just remember: if you do go two levels of rogue, level one should always be rogue. (You get to many skill points at this level as rogue.) The second level of rogue can be taken much later. My advice for skill points on your rogue levels would be to max out UMD first, and max out balance second. Even if you don't end up with enough points to then spend on intimidate, just make sure to spend those extra points to further max intimidate on your next fighter level. This way you don't miss out on capitalizing on your rogue levels for full points of balance.

And again, this is just in my oppinion. There are no blazing flaws in the build as you have posted it, I'm just pointing out a few things I think would be of great benefit. Enjoy leveling YOUR toon, and have fun questing. ^_^

[BoBoDaClown]

The main ability on an intimi tank is charisma not strength. Fighters have three action point talents to increase strength if desired, but strength is not something an intimi tank needs nor should be stacking.

Your main stat is strength.

You'll be fighting far more than you'll be intimidating, and with work you'll be able to intim all mobs without going crazy on the charisma.

[OnlineGamer]

Can I assume that lack of comment on my build back at post 14 means there are no glaring holes in the build, assuming wise equipment/enhancement choices?

I am not one to comment on the actual playability and fun of your build. It seems interesting but not what I would choose for an intimitank. My personal observations based on my ideas of an intimitank and general base starting abilities are:

1. You are taking kensi for tanking which is for dps not tanking and especially not intimi tanking. By skipping the stalward defender you are giving up intimidate boosts which are hard to come by and near impossible to achive pre-raid geared. If you have other toons and the ability to have a crafted greensteal item then you probably dont care but any new intimitank should. If you really want to tank then I think you should focus on tanking feats and ation points since the +4 to strength and con will still work well for dps (as a snail mind you - but heck you can intimidate them to you).

2. You do not want a rogue splash and throw in two extra fighter levels which really have no clear purpose other than to fill the hole. I would suggest you go try to tank some of the mobs and bosses in reavers reach without evasion and then review your decision to drop the rogue levels. I did not want two rogue levels for my fighter .... but I needed them.

3. Your starting and ending base stats do not seem to have a clear plan nor alignment plan, again it seems stats were added to use up the abilities. Starting stats should have a clearly defined starting point based on what you are trying to do. For example, having 8 wisdom on an intimitank and then using the force of personality feat to ensure good wisdom saves. Another example is ensuring you have a base dex of 13 so you can get the dodge feat. Another example would be starting with 13 strength and then increasing it during leveling to ensure the ITWF feat can be obtained (which requires a higher base strength). My point on alignment plan for stats is to ensure they line up on an even number thus fully utilizing the available bonuses. Not every stat needs to end up with an even result since it is possible to plan to add an odd valued exceptional bonus later on, but if you need to burn a stat, make sure its burned making an existing stat become an even value. I am thinking that the randomness looking stat increases are to ensure you can get the feats you want. You should try to plan these correctly from the start so the increases are not necessary and so you can focus on only one attribte being increased.

4. You have several talents in TWF which is clearly for dps only. If you want to tank then drop these and just pick up a two hander slashing weapon. If you throw in some focus feats both your tanking and two hander dps could go up.

5. Your ending intimiate stat is sub-par for high-end (or any other) raiding.

So, if I were looking at using this build I would likely trash the intimitank idea and start thinking hate tank. Intimitanks tend to be weak in the dps area and potentially lacking in the fun department.

[BoBoDaClown]

I am not one to comment on the actual playability and fun of your build. It seems interesting but not what I would choose for an intimitank. My personal observations based on my ideas of an intimitank and general base starting abilities are:

1. You are taking kensi for tanking which is for dps not tanking and especially not intimi tanking. By skipping the stalward defender you are giving up intimidate boosts which are hard to come by and near impossible to achive pre-raid geared. If you have other toons and the ability to have a crafted greensteal item then you probably dont care but any new intimitank should. If you really want to tank then I think you should focus on tanking feats and ation points since the +4 to strength and con will still work well for dps (as a snail mind you - but heck you can intimidate them to you).
Agreed. A lot easier to tank with Stalwart.
2. You do not want a rogue splash and throw in two extra fighter levels which really have no clear purpose other than to fill the hole. I would suggest you go try to tank some of the mobs and bosses in reavers reach without evasion and then review your decision to drop the rogue levels. I did not want two rogue levels for my fighter .... but I needed them.
On this character evasion might be nice - since there are two floating levels. However, it is by no means necessary on a tank. Certainly, grinding for good gear is a must, if evasion isn't present.
3. Your starting and ending base stats do not seem to have a clear plan nor alignment plan, again it seems stats were added to use up the abilities. Starting stats should have a clearly defined starting point based on what you are trying to do. For example, having 8 wisdom on an intimitank and then using the force of personality feat to ensure good wisdom saves.I wouldn't bother with will saves - they don't seem to impact high level play much. In saying that, I have highish saves, so might not realise how fully they benefit me Another example is ensuring you have a base dex of 13 so you can get the dodge feat. Another example would be starting with 13 strength and then increasing it during leveling to ensure the ITWF feat can be obtained (which requires a higher base strength).I assume THF is meant?-typo My point on alignment plan for stats is to ensure they line up on an even number thus fully utilizing the available bonuses. Not every stat needs to end up with an even result since it is possible to plan to add an odd valued exceptional bonus later on, but if you need to burn a stat, make sure its burned making an existing stat become an even value.I find it hard to plan for stats now - with +2 to +4 tomes, expensive enhancements, and plenty of items I am thinking that the randomness looking stat increases are to ensure you can get the feats you want. You should try to plan these correctly from the start so the increases are not necessary and so you can focus on only one attribte being increased.agreed

4. You have several talents in TWF which is clearly for dps only. If you want to tank then drop these and just pick up a two hander slashing weapon. If you throw in some focus feats both your tanking and two hander dps could go up.
TWF rocks on a tank. Every tank should have a serious dps option and most can afford twf since there dex has to be decent anyway. NOthing wrong going THF either - as long as you have a dps option
5. Your ending intimiate stat is sub-par for high-end (or any other) raiding.
I would be inclined to switch the shield mastery feats for skill focus: intim and bull headed, if intim does end up an issue. Certainly, if he ends up high level tanking, he'll probably want stalwart 2.
So, if I were looking at using this build I would likely trash the intimitank idea and start thinking hate tank. Intimitanks tend to be weak in the dps area and potentially lacking in the fun department.Intims maybe 'weaker' than a full blown dps build, but realistically they should be built to offer solid/strong dps as well as their tanking role.

In red

[MrWizard]

The main ability on an intimi tank is charisma not strength. Fighters have three action point talents to increase strength if desired, but strength is not something an intimi tank needs nor should be stacking.

gotta join in the chorus here....that strength upgrade at leveling is very important.

All those pluses to hit make it easier to not miss...missing means your dps is down.
It is hard to get that 'to-hit' up there other than strength and weapons.

min 15 str, 16 would be ideal to start.

An intim needs a good ac and a high DR. A high intim is not that hard to obtain, start at 12 or 13.

That strength also helps against being stunned, tripped, sapped, etc..
That strength also adds to your trip, stun, whatever.

you wish it could be 18, but then you start to gimp as the cost is 6 build points to get it (UNTIL HALF ORC INTIMS COME OUT!!!!!!)

[BoBoDaClown]

I have invested a lot of time recently trying to find an intimidate build that was fun to play.

A few things I discovered during this process:

1. Weapon Finess build - while potentially viable this build was not very fun to play and impacted the ability to do reasonable dps. Personal preference here is cleave and greater cleave. These add significantly to the fun of an intimidate build and anything without these options lacks fun (paralysing 10 mobs at once in Ataraxia is definately fun for everyone).
cleave etc lowers dps. Obviously if you find them 'fun', they are worth keeping.
2. Straight Fighter - while potentially viable a straight fighter build takes a significant amount of damage on fights where reflex saves are required (even if saves are continually made). Since the Stalward Defender tops out at Fighter level 18, you are clearly taunted by the game mechanics to grab two rogue levels for evasion. Monk may be viable but I do not have access to Monk as of yet.
Two rogue/monk levels offers a lot. - armour switching required However, pure fighter also offers the capstone dps increase, which is nice.
3. Weapons - I much prefer Dwarven axes, however the build is just as much fun with battle axes. If your preference is for exotic weapons, it is reasonable to trade out some of the final feats (mobility and spring attack) for some form of weapon proficiency. This will also improve your dps if you don't run around all the time like I do. My personal preference was to take both mobility and spring attack very early on in the build (within the first 4 levels).
If you are dwarf, grab DA. If you are Human, and have the feats, go Khopesh (in fact his original build should do this if it doesn't). Spring attack doesn't give you a lot. For most of the game you'll be hitting on a 2.
4. Dwarfs - While it is possible to create a workable build, this race in not the optimum race for an intimitank due to the difficulty to reach a high starting charisma. I will be working on one in the near future, but believe the final outcome will be the need for +4 charisma tome and epic (crafted) gear before the build will work reasonably for raids. This build will likely have to leach by faking dps / tanking abilities until it becomes epic.
While not ideal, dwarf will be fine. I've made my Halfing at -4 intim work.
5. Tomes - no tomes are really needed to start off with. The +1 int tome is really handy, but if one will not be available then you could trade out the starting ability of something else for one more int. Note: It is important to maintain a minimum of 13 for strength, dexterity, constitution and intelligence. There are feats used that require these base numbers. The +2 charisma tome (or better if you have access to them) should be considered mandatory.

6. Build Progression in EPIC - as this build progresses with epic gear that increases your intimidate skills above 81, it becomes possible to trade out intimidation based feats for additional toughness (or other) feats. This involves a cost per feat change, but is reasonable and will increase the builds surviveability.

7. DPS - this build will never be much for dps and killing anything with health regeneration will be a challenge, however it is possible to drop your shield and use a two handed weapon to increase your dps. 100+ crit damage should be possible with good weapons.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             13                 14                   16
Dexterity            14                 16                   17
Constitution         14                 16                   17
Intelligence         13                 14                   14
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             16                 23                   24

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 4
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    25
Bluff                 3                     7
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             3                     7
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle                3                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            7                    51
Jump                  5                    16
Listen                3                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                     6
Spot                  3                     3
Swim                  5                    12
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      7                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 10 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Resilience
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation III


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation IV
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

My major criticism is that the str is too low and the charisma too high. Definitely do not put level ups into charisma - you'll be fine without it. I would probably start with 12 int and eat a +1/+2, but each to their own.
-Shield bash, movement and cleave feats aren't so hot. Even resilience and FOP I'm not sold on. The THF might be worth a look, or +1 dex (then +2 tome) and the TWF feats, then voila, you have a guy who is just as good as tanking, and has a serious dps option.

Just my thoughts

[BoBoDaClown]

To the OP, your level split might work.

However, you might want to consider a 20 Stalwart, or a 18/2 Stalwart - built for tanking and dps - works fine. You can even build them so you can switch between Stalwart and Kensai as the fancy takes you.

[Morlen]

I just want to remind people on the OP's behalf that he his planning an Intimi/DPS tank that utalizes both the Paladin defender prestige and the Fighter kensai prestige. This is a viable, versitile, and useful build. He seems to want the fighter/pally blend for a unique flavor and fun build.

It just seems to me that advice should stay along the lines of helping out said build.

[BoBoDaClown]

I just want to remind people on the OP's behalf that he his planning an Intimi/DPS tank that utalizes both the Paladin defender prestige and the Fighter kensai prestige. This is a viable, versitile, and useful build. He seems to want the fighter/pally blend for a unique flavor and fun build.

It just seems to me that advice should stay along the lines of helping out said build.

Yeah... I'm sure it works well. I just don't know much about Paladins

So I was letting him know you can get that dps+tank split through more traditional routes.

[krud]

I just want to remind people on the OP's behalf that he his planning an Intimi/DPS tank that utalizes both the Paladin defender prestige and the Fighter kensai prestige. This is a viable, versitile, and useful build. He seems to want the fighter/pally blend for a unique flavor and fun build.

It just seems to me that advice should stay along the lines of helping out said build.

since I have a 12ftr/6pal/2rog twf-intimitank i thought my advice was pretty good. In this particular case I think 12/6/2 has quite a bit more to offer over a 14/6, even if it's just for evasion and/or feats.

As far as making cha your main stat and neglect str, that is terrible advice for a fighter. It will only work if you know for sure who you'll be running with, and can be confident they will pick up the slack from your having horrible dps. I found plenty of occasions where dps was needed over intimidating that neglecting dps on any kind of tank just won't do.

Initial stat allocation is fine. If you don't want to wait until you get a +2 dex tome, then you could start with a 12cha and 16dex, and use a +1 dex tome. Level ups shold still go into strength. You can always do a lesser reincarnate later on after you've accumulated +2 and higher tomes on the character to optimize stat allocation. Try to get power attack earlier (level 15 or so). It will come in handy when you start raiding.

With kensai and no intimidate feats you'll be able to intimidate trash mobs, but will find it harder to intimitank raid bosses. I'm not sure how dwarf size affects intim scores, but you may get a size penalty, which will make raid boss tanking even harder A couple of things you can do to help. Drop shield mastery/imp shield mastery for skill focus intimidate, and bullheaded feat - total of +5 to intimidate. Make sure you pick up the intimidate enhancements too.

2 rog vs 2 mnk - I tried both and personally I like rog for the umd. It makes for a much more self sufficient build, especially when you start casting heal scrolls. With monk you can pick up another point of intimidate with the tenacious badger enhancement. The two feats are nice, but you've got plenty with the 12 ftr. Though, the extra feats may allow you to pick up the shield mastery feats along with the intim feats.

gear. for an evasion tank, mith bp will probably your best bet. Do the hound raid for the BP of destruction, or chain shirt of crippling. People practically give them away, so it shouldn't take long to get those. I have a set of Dragontouched full plate, for those times I don't care about evasion and want the highest AC possible, though I hardly wear it. The 3 less AC doesn't seem to bother me.

[Morlen]

since I have a 12ftr/6pal/2rog twf-intimitank i thought my advice was pretty good. In this particular case I think 12/6/2 has quite a bit more to offer over a 14/6, even if it's just for evasion and/or feats.

Oh I agree with you there. I just saw a few posts of "go 18 fighter, all stalwart" and "don't do both, just focus on one or the other" when the OP distinctly stated his build intentions. These sort of things get under my skin a little, and I get snippy every now and again. No real malice was intended. ^_^

[Kinnel01]

As before, thank you for your input, everyone.

I can definitely see the wisdom in Krud's thought that the first two levels of rogue (since I don't have monks...) will be more useful than the last two levels of fighter.

Also, the logic of adding all STR instead of jumping all over the place with stat adds.

How soon would you all recommend the second level of rogue? Of the two builds in this thread (other than mine), one took L2 at 10, one at 11. Is that so I can drop a bunch of points into UMD and catch it up?

I think I will re-make my build assuming a +2 to all tome at 7, then just play it through and decide if I like the build ~10 dollars worth at level 7.

[unbongwah]

Fighter / paladin tanks are hard to pull off because they're dependent on every stat. Although this build does require +2 tomes to CHA, INT, and DEX, it might be a little easier to pull off. It can switch between Kensai and Stalwart Defender thru an enh reset. Probably needs some optimization, but you should get the general idea.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 384
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             11                    13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    16
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             0                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                4                     5
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            4                    38
Jump                  7                    12
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             6                     8
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device      4                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (swap for Power Attack at higher lvls)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III