Question on Known Issue/Bug Reporting

[Mister_Peace]

Incorrect. I was climbing all over ladders this weekend with no issue. The only funky ladder I found is one in the public space in House D. And... like a bad person... I didn't /loc it and will now have to go back and find it and /loc it for Keeper >>

Incidentally T, how often do you find that "I looked for that bug and I didn't see it"

@_@

[TiranBlade]

That was one I got the other day, it was completely frustrating. I confess I did not bug it though. And eventually it simply slipped my mind. It was incredibly aggravating. Thank you for getting that one out!, if not again....It wont allow you to climb out of the water either, unless this is WAI players have to swim all the way around to the other chamber to get up, and then run all the way back around.

Well I am planning on running the quest here again soon, I'll get right on the ladder, bump my head so the bug will come out. Hopefully this will be addressed if it is indeed a bug.

[Kromize]

It's very situational.

Take "ladders" for example. We actually had to add a KI to tell people to KEEP reporting them because to a player, this "seems" like a "simple" fix... it's just a ladder right? Little did they know it is something that Keeper has to go to the particular ladder and then hand remove/replant it. They're standing in the Market filing a bug report about a ladder they found two quests ago before they log out for the night. Half the time they didn't even get the quest name right because it was in part 3 of a 4 part quest chain. How does Keeper know where the ladder was?

In other cases, if there is something broken and people deflect to just not playing it rather than telling us about it, then it's likely that issue can end up lower in the hopper because other issues/reports are getting more traffic. When an issue is evenly pitted against another issue, how hard the issue is being "felt" can be a part of whether or not it's on the KI list.

Other times well... we're getting reports, but the reports we get are... lacking in detail. "FIX MOB!" Ok... what about the mob is wrong? There are maaany ways something can be broken, and what seems obvious to you isn't necessarily to the one reading your bug report with no context. You'd be surprised by the number of bug reports we get that lack details because the player assumes the way it is broken makes sense to be described as "FIX MOB" or "QUEST WONT WORK" or "BAD MONSTER."

Every situation is different. Unless you see something saying not to, it's a good idea to file a bug report. (That isn't a license to spam the reporting tool. Only send a second one on the same issue if you found more details than you had the first time that could be enlightening).

Maybe you oughta give people a 100 TP reward for helpful bug reports.

[Keeper]

Hey Keeper, did you by chance get my ladder bug I reported for on the guild airship back when U5 was still on Lamannia?

Yup, I fixed it.

[Strakeln]

That's in contradiction to the rest of your post.

Wrong.

You just got done describing how an obvious bug can be well known for an excessively long time without being fixed; so then how can you accuse QA personnel of not detecting it?

Because I was talking about the players knowing and attempting (but not succeeding) to inform Turbine via the proper channels.

You have no way to know whether they didn't notice it, or the devs simply didn't fix it.

Correct, I have not heard from QA. I do know for a fact that the devs didn't know about it, and furthermore, their internal build didn't show the problem. While it's okay for a dev to be on a different build, if that's QA's excuse for not noticing the problem, then it speaks to all sorts of improper testing procedures (or a lack of procedure).

Really, minimal existence of a feature is something the programmer should've handled himself.

Agreed. At the same time, it's QA's job to find what the programmer missed.

[smatt]

You Have No Way To Know Whether They Didn't Notice It, Or The Devs Simply Didn't Fix It.

This Is The Problem :d

[Riggs]

You done yet, or you still stealth editing? Honestly, how do people take you seriously if you keep changing your post.

Because I made a scathing comment about you calling Tolero the OP - which combined with calling Tolero a HE adds weight to the list of things demonstrating your lack of....something I shouldnt print.

After rereading the post several times I decided it may have just been you cant put a proper sentance together and there was a slim possibility you were just mixing up what Tolero said and referencing the OP in the same line. I took it out rather than get into a big argument about grammar which has no bearing on the bug report issue, and I really have no desire to get into a stupid argument with someone that thinks past is irrelevant to present. Let a lot of criminals go because they didnt commit any crimes TODAY? Good logic there.

But that post of yours is basically a personal slam with again no facts or reasons contained in it. So while a few days late, there it is.

Dont try to argue logic if you dont know what it is first...and you have yet to prove you do.
(**edit ohh look im being tricky!)The fallacy was that the OP, and everyone else's responses stating bugs dont get fixed even when they have reported them - accurately. The strawman was saying bugs dont get fixed because Turbine ONLY gets bad bug reports. If that isnt clear enough then nothing is.(end of edit)

/derail off.

I would like to repeat what some others said - any dev response is almost always good news. (Almost), Thanks Keeper for posting stuff and Tolero for at least taking all the grief from us.

But still it would be a MASSIVE boost to player goodwill to actually see a list of:
Bugs but dont need more info,
Bugs, need more info please submit reports,
Issues that may or may not be bugs, but has been reported as not working as intended by multiple players and so is on the list until proven intended or getting some dev checking on it.

Many players would put a lot of time into testing and sending in accurate reports if there was some kind of good feedback, and a public list showing issues players have known about for weeks, months, or sometimes years.

[parvo]

What are you trying to do?

Every time I fill out a bug report, I get a confirmation e-mail from Turbine. Hen is right. If you're not getting the confirm, they probably don't have your e-mail right in that database. It's probably a bug

[KannyaAryien]

To be honest, if there was a standardized list of bugs, even just general info like "mob/ladder/etc. x in quest y occasionally bugs, need more info", I would look through that and go hunt down those bugs. We, as the player base, can gather oodles of information for the devs, especially if we have somewhere to start.

So, I humbly entreat those in power, and I don't mean the hamsters, to throw us a bone. If the game's broken in a few places, we are your best bet for gathering info. And if we have some basic information, we can find all manner of ingenious ways to try to recreate the problem. It's what we do best.

But for the record, loved seeing all the responses from Tolero and Keeper. Makes me a happy person.

[MrkGrismer]

To see the amount of back-and-forth on this thread I have to wonder if perhaps a FORUM entitled Bugs and Known Issues in which devs could sticky threads in which they wanted additional information/feedback from players and players could post questions/bug reports (in addition to using the in-game bug reporting tool, since it includes location information) would be useful.

It seems to me that in instances where the players get involved the amount of information on a particular bug quickly accumulates, I am noting specifically the DPS/Bandwidth Cap bug test that was conducted on Lam with accompanying thread in the Lam forum.

[Thechemicals]

Yup, I fixed it.

Fixed it nice. Why is he asking about it then?

[AyumiAmakusa]

To see the amount of back-and-forth on this thread I have to wonder if perhaps a FORUM entitled Bugs and Known Issues in which devs could sticky threads in which they wanted additional information/feedback from players and players could post questions/bug reports (in addition to using the in-game bug reporting tool, since it includes location information) would be useful.

It seems to me that in instances where the players get involved the amount of information on a particular bug quickly accumulates, I am noting specifically the DPS/Bandwidth Cap bug test that was conducted on Lam with accompanying thread in the Lam forum.

I think we call that 'The House of Errors'

[MrkGrismer]

I think we call that 'The House of Errors'

I don't see that on the forum list: http://forums.ddo.com/index.php

You mean this? http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175017&page=3

Not exactly what I meant. A single thread is not so good as all sorts of issues get lumped onto it. A single forum would be better because then each individual issue could have its own thread, thus making it easier to discuss individual issues.

[eulogy098]

This thread is so absurd it spins my head.

So many responses to the very insignificant ladder bugs and zero responses to any of the more important ones. Like, you know THE SUULOMADES TOD CHEST MENTIONED IN THE OP or any of the broken game mechanics like WARFORGED GREAT WEAPON APTITUDE ((http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264963)) or totally broken since day 1 capstones ((barbarian)0 effect to glancing blows).

There are tons of threads on this stuff with extreme levels of testing and details, and they all go totally unanswered. There are countless bug reports done on it, and still not even a "we know about it, keep testing it and reporting". Mention a stupid ladder that is easily bypassed by pressing "W" twice, and these guys jump all over it like it's their prom date.

This is the single biggest problem with DDO

[Mister_Peace]

So many responses to the very insignificant ladder bugs and zero responses to any of the more important ones. Like, you know THE SUULOMADES TOD CHEST MENTIONED IN THE OP or any of the broken game mechanics like WARFORGED GREAT WEAPON APTITUDE ((http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264963)) or totally broken since day 1 capstones ((barbarian)0 effect to glancing blows).

Let's talk about this

This is the single biggest problem with DDO

not this

[cdbd3rd]

.... Keeper can spank me if I'm giving erroneous ladder anatomy.

Dunno how I stumbled onto this little gem today, but I don't suppose we can add that to the party festivities next year, hmmm?