Tower of Despair

[Daggertooth]

Greetings,

Looking for lvl 18-20's who have not run Tower of Despair (with any character).

Not "not on this toon"... get lost, thank you.

Please PM me or shoot me an in game mail. Hopefully we can coordinate a time to check this raid out without having it ruined by you know who.

[Renegade66]

Are you looking to run it cold without any idea going in, or are you just wanting a slow paced run with a guide that will let you do your thing yet not let you wipe blindly?

If the latter, I'd be happy to volunteer to be your guide.

[AyumiAmakusa]

I think I understand what the OP is trying to do. He wants the group to go into a quest completely blind so that he can feel the thrill of discovering a new quest (I'd advise against ToD but w/e).

[Quikster]

Why not just send out a bunch of blind invites?

[Goldeneye]

Remind all the Melees to keep there Madstone boots on at all time. The rage helps you win faster.

[Phidius]

Uphill battle, I think... if you want to experience a high-end raid for the first time, you only have a couple options.

1. Be in the initial rush to beat the raid
2. Solo/Duo
3. Build a group of like-minded individuals who weren't around/ready/interested when the raid came out.

Sounds like you're trying #3. It usually works best if you can build a solid core first, so good luck.

[bobbryan2]

I find it's hard to find a bunch of first timers to do a raid a year after release.

It's not that there's not a lot of people who haven't run ToD. But all the people that have the desire and ability to do those raids have done them at some point.

[Daggertooth]

Well I forgot all about this... yes I would love to run it with anyone who either hasn't run it or doesn't mind blowing it so that we can have a shot at it i.e. without knowing anything beforehand.


Yeah I have possibly logged the most hours out of all of us but I take no interest in getting to things first when they come out... its usually quite a while before I get around to it.

And regarding everything else.. you are all too kind... Truly! And I'd like to thank the Academy... for without them.. what do we really have?

[thoryndar]

I think it's a great idea, and i'll give you props for trying to institute this.

However:

If you are of the level to get into ToD, have the flagging pre-requistes completed, and boots? Chances are you have already gone in.

Why else would you have spent the time flagging if your ultimate goal was not to enter?

/ponder

[Phidius]

...

Why else would you have spent the time flagging if your ultimate goal was not to enter?

...

Large Ingredients
Very tasty belts
Sins of Attrition/Bastion of Power/New Invasion are very, very addictive (at least for me) - not a big fan of Genesis Point, probably because of the maze. I don't trust hirelings or PUGgers

[Levonestral]

When someone asks you if you've done the quest.. what in God's green Earth does 'not on this toon' have to do with it'?

Actually, what doesn't it have to do with it ?

Every build and character (unless you're stuck in a build rut) comes with their own strengths and weaknesses and doing a raid or quest with that build compared to others, will result in a different perspective.

Maybe someone has only had their caster in there and wants to try melee? Maybe they've only ever healed and want to kite? Maybe they've only ever hate/intim and want to see everything from another view of the room ?

Wow, ignoring everything else I've seen you post, for you to sit there and say that is just shameful and close minded.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

Actually, what doesn't it have to do with it ?

Every build and character (unless you're stuck in a build rut) comes with their own strengths and weaknesses and doing a raid or quest with that build compared to others, will result in a different perspective.

Maybe someone has only had their caster in there and wants to try melee? Maybe they've only ever healed and want to kite? Maybe they've only ever hate/intim and want to see everything from another view of the room ?

Wow, ignoring everything else I've seen you post, for you to sit there and say that is just shameful and close minded.

Heck, sometimes it's different even on the same toon, if the person with the star simply asks you to do a different job this go...


Too bad ye're givin' up Dagger...was gonna ask if ye'd mind havin one of my toons run with ye...it would be one of those "not on this toon" moments, but I could just sit in the back and follow, or check out the scenery while you figure out the quest. After reading the thread that was posted yesterday regarding this raid, it might be interesting to see someone new's take on the quest...and if I die, oh well...all in the name of science!

Besides...who could pass up a chance to run with the greatest player in teh game???

[Daggertooth]

Actually, what doesn't it have to do with it ?

Every build and character (unless you're stuck in a build rut) comes with their own strengths and weaknesses and doing a raid or quest with that build compared to others, will result in a different perspective.

Maybe someone has only had their caster in there and wants to try melee? Maybe they've only ever healed and want to kite? Maybe they've only ever hate/intim and want to see everything from another view of the room ?

Wow, ignoring everything else I've seen you post, for you to sit there and say that is just shameful and close minded.

I think the same applies to you (being close minded). When I ask if someone has done the quest I want to know if this is their first time in there..Period (.) I want to know if we are on the same page when we go in. Either that or I want to know if they have some semblance of an idea of roleplaying enough to be able to be quiet and give me a chance to have a look around and take a shot at figuring out whatever needs to be figured out without gracing me with 'the kindness' of explaining to me why this is and why that is'.

I have a -very- hard time understanding the logic of your 'kindness' in 'explaining' to new players what your doing and why your doing it. If you want to do that.. fine. But don't confuse it with 'kindness'. If you want to actually exhibit some semblance of kindness, you tell them, 'good luck, bro.. I'm right behind ya.. I've got my bow/sword/healing scrolls (whatever) ready'. ... You don't tell them that their first time in a dungeon isn't worth a few in-game resources.

Not sure how what you do equates to 'kindness' in your eyes. To me it sounds like some mutation/sick spawn of the cell phone /'can you hear me now?' era.

[Daggertooth]

Heck, sometimes it's different even on the same toon, if the person with the star simply asks you to do a different job this go...


Too bad ye're givin' up Dagger...was gonna ask if ye'd mind havin one of my toons run with ye...it would be one of those "not on this toon" moments, but I could just sit in the back and follow, or check out the scenery while you figure out the quest. After reading the thread that was posted yesterday regarding this raid, it might be interesting to see someone new's take on the quest...and if I die, oh well...all in the name of science!

s.

Besides...who could pass up a chance to run with the greatest player in teh game???

Ok now we are two.

Look don't get me wrong. I value everyone and their 'experience'. I very much enjoy the healthy competition and the camaraderie. In all seriousness, for the last four years a good portion of my life has been spent playing on this server. Even not knowing who anyone is and no one knowing who I am, I consider you all a part of my extended family of sorts.. or at least 'friends in spirit'.

But maybe like sibling rivalry, as I've said, I heartily disagree with your approach to certain things. Hey once the blood starts flowing and everyone is on the same page, I have no issues whatsoever and value our time together (alot).

But as soon as there is someone who has not experienced whatever it is we're doing, whether they are a new player or a 4 year vet.. our view change like night and day.

Is my time valuable? I like to think as valuable as anyone elses. But I think the diference between myself and alot of others is that I've learned to get great enjoyment out of watching others experience things for the first time and acting like its my first time there as well. Will I still strive for the most kills? Of course, but through the eyes of a character who has never been there. I'll even trigger traps... and get everyone killed if I think it will add to the believability of the game, because to me, there is nothing more important.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

I think the same applies to you (being close minded). When I ask if someone has done the quest I want to know if this is their first time in there..Period (.) I want to know if we are on the same page when we go in. Either that or I want to know if they have some semblance of an idea of roleplaying enough to be able to be quiet and give me a chance to have a look around and take a shot at figuring out whatever needs to be figured out without gracing me with 'the kindness' of explaining to me why this is and why that is'.

I have a -very- hard time understanding the logic of your 'kindness' in 'explaining' to new players what your doing and why your doing it. If you want to do that.. fine. But don't confuse it with 'kindness'. If you want to actually exhibit some semblance of kindness, you tell them, 'good luck, bro.. I'm right behind ya.. I've got my bow/sword/healing scrolls (whatever) ready'. ... You don't tell them that their first time in a dungeon isn't worth a few in-game resources.

Not sure how what you do equates to 'kindness' in your eyes. To me it sounds like some mutation/sick spawn of the cell phone /'can you hear me now?' era.

Ok, dude...I am serious about giving you a hand running Tower, without spoiling anything, and without jumping in and trying to do things the way I know how to, so that you, and others, can have a good time learning it your first time...but this attitude really has to stop.

For one thing, Levonestral is one of the LEAST closed-minded people you will find in this game. He is perfectly happy letting new players and less experienced players learn on their own, if that is their wish, or if he believes that is the best way for them to learn. He is also more than happy to explain even the most idiotic questions when asked, and he is more than willing to give new things a try, both for fun and to learn. (that 4-man shroud we tried the other day was some of the most fun I've had, and even though we didn't succeed, we still learned from it)

Now, when he takes a new person through Tower, yes, he typically explains to them what to do at each step, but that is because the new person is part of a full group of people who want to get through the raid without wiping, and we all want everyone on the same page. To NOT do that in that situation would be to deny everyone else in the raid the chance to run it the way they want. That also includes taking them to the places where they can watch the RP scenes unfold, and pointing out the funny flavor text, so that the new players are not just caught up in the banality of another raid run. Now, if they did NOT want to learn about the raid in that way, all they need to do is tell him, and he will either point them in your direction, or (knowing him), he may even try to put together a run with the main objective being not to spoil the raid, as you are wishing to do. That is the type of person Levonestral is.

See, closed-minded is FAR from what Levonestral, or ANY of the officers of The Madborn are. They are willing to help out in whatever way necessary. They do not care if they wipe, if you want to try out new things...they don't care about wacky new builds, though they will offer advice when it is requested, and they are willing to run quests in any way that makes it fun for the people in the group. No, closed minded is when you assume there is only ONE way to do things, or when you assume things are always Black or White with nothing in between, which is 100% the attitude you are constantly representing on these forums.


So, if you want another body for your tower run, who will NOT spoil things for you, I am more than willing to do things your way, take a step back, and try to do things differently. I am willing to help out without jumping in, taking charge, or stopping you from RPing your way through it. I will find it interesting to see a different way through, and if we complete, and you and others have fun, I will be happy to have helped. I am part of The Madborn...that's how we do things. Just please, at this point, you have nothing to gain by disrespecting Levonestral, or Ironforge_Clan, or any of the others at this point. If what you want to do is truly run a Tower and learn as you go, then send me a PM when you want to do it, and do your best to try to find others to come...just don't be surprised when you find very few takers.

Oh, and I will give it a go nonetheless, because I do not fear failing, especially if I learn something along the way, but I can tell you in all seriousness that based upon my experience, and knowing the limitations of my exploiter (whom I would be bringing), I do not believe it could be 2-manned with just us...I would advise getting at least a handful more to give us a better shot, regardless of how you run it.





EDIT: If you and Ironforge_Clan want to continue your back-and-forth, feel free without any hard feelings from me...I just realized that doesn't bother me, and I wouldn't want to spoil the fun.

[Levonestral]

I think the same applies to you (being close minded). When I ask if someone has done the quest I want to know if this is their first time in there..Period (.) I want to know if we are on the same page when we go in. Either that or I want to know if they have some semblance of an idea of roleplaying enough to be able to be quiet and give me a chance to have a look around and take a shot at figuring out whatever needs to be figured out without gracing me with 'the kindness' of explaining to me why this is and why that is'.

If my allowing people to try out new builds in new situations make me close-minded, then yes, I'll agree with you. Otherwise, the rest of the above banter makes no sense in the context of you quoting me. How exactly am I close-minded again for my statement?

I simply stated my opinion against your view of not letting people to bring different characters to a raid that they've never had in there before as part of the effort to create the "unknown" feeling. I never once said you couldn't look for people who have never done it at all. Again, how does any of that make ME close-minded ?

I have a -very- hard time understanding the logic of your 'kindness' in 'explaining' to new players what your doing and why your doing it. If you want to do that.. fine. But don't confuse it with 'kindness'. If you want to actually exhibit some semblance of kindness, you tell them, 'good luck, bro.. I'm right behind ya.. I've got my bow/sword/healing scrolls (whatever) ready'. ... You don't tell them that their first time in a dungeon isn't worth a few in-game resources.

Not sure how what you do equates to 'kindness' in your eyes. To me it sounds like some mutation/sick spawn of the cell phone /'can you hear me now?' era.

Dude.....chill....seriously, you're not helping your case any.

I'm assuming that you are bringing this up in the context of another conversation with somebody else since I never made any suggestion towards any reference to "kindness" in my only post.

However, since you've now got my full attention, let me explain a little something to you....

There are lot of people in this game that are more than willing to help out to create the perfect "We've never been here, lets see what happens" scenario and will be there to watch you're back to make sure the raid is at least fun for everyone involved, including potential party wipes for mistakes made, by keeping it a relaxed environment. Many of us have done it often enough for friends and guildies that we are actually quite good at it

You just have to stop being difficult and disruptive long enough for us to want to actually to do this for you. Which, based on everything so far, isn't likely to happen since you're doing a great job at burning the bridges so far

[Bilger]

I think the same applies to you (being close minded). When I ask if someone has done the quest I want to know if this is their first time in there..Period (.) I want to know if we are on the same page when we go in. Either that or I want to know if they have some semblance of an idea of roleplaying enough to be able to be quiet and give me a chance to have a look around and take a shot at figuring out whatever needs to be figured out without gracing me with 'the kindness' of explaining to me why this is and why that is'.

I have a -very- hard time understanding the logic of your 'kindness' in 'explaining' to new players what your doing and why your doing it. If you want to do that.. fine. But don't confuse it with 'kindness'. If you want to actually exhibit some semblance of kindness, you tell them, 'good luck, bro.. I'm right behind ya.. I've got my bow/sword/healing scrolls (whatever) ready'. ... You don't tell them that their first time in a dungeon isn't worth a few in-game resources.

Not sure how what you do equates to 'kindness' in your eyes. To me it sounds like some mutation/sick spawn of the cell phone /'can you hear me now?' era.

You make me LOL Lev is one of the best people to play with in game. Close minded is what you are, not him.

Lev goes out of his way for people and will help in anyway he can unless the person asks differently and then he has the respect to not do what they don't want.

To go off on someone you have no clue about is so close minded and just shows who you are.

Seriously before you attack someone might want to read and understand what they saying first before jumping at them.

[learst]

Darn it, I have a capped bard on Argo which I've never run this ToD before, though I think I still need 1 more quest to complete flagging. No Boots, no ingredients found so far for them.

[Daggertooth]

Well well well...

The Madborn.... how quaint

You've all presented your cases quite nicely... One problem. .. If you truly believed in what you've wrote here you would know that the post was not directed at you, and more importantly, that what I stated in my post IS a VERY big problem.

So , I say, twas a noble effort. And yes of course I would be happy to run with you guys and also work toward providing this kind of experience for others, because believe me, contrary to what the people who this issue refers to may beleive, EVERYONE would like a chance to GLIMPSE soemthing before they are either vaccummed up by it or lectured about it. I hope you can agree.

[Bilger]

Well well well...

The Madborn.... how quaint

You've all presented your cases quite nicely... One problem. .. If you truly believed in what you've wrote here you would know that the post was not directed at you, and more importantly, that what I stated in my post IS a VERY big problem.

So , I say, twas a noble effort. And yes of course I would be happy to run with you guys and also work toward providing this kind of experience for others, because believe me, contrary to what the people who this issue refers to may beleive, EVERYONE would like a chance to GLIMPSE soemthing before they are either vaccummed up by it or lectured about it. I hope you can agree.

No but you did attack a member who stated there opinion and called them close minded. When you have no clue yourself.

Everyone has a OP and a right to it. They also have the right to run things how they wish.

It is in your right to run a quest the way you want and experience it how you want.

As long as you are the leader of said quest.

You have your op and we ares.

I will teach anyone anything as long as they have the eagerness to learn it. If you don't that's great it is your right.

But, join a group I am leading expect to do it the way I ask or not be allowed to join again.

If a player asks me not to totally ruin it for them when leading I wlll do my best to not do it but if a critical are is ahead and I am not going to fail if it is my group and I am leading it. Unless I stated it is a fun run and we are going to do this for blank and let him experiance it.

If it is your run and ask for it not to be ruined I would respect that and just do my job and let you experiance it.

That being said you should do the same respec the group you join and do what requested some people just want to get things done. If don't like it drop cya later.

If you want to form this TOD great but when you post and people post there op expect what you get it is in the way you state things that draw people out and get you flamed.