Pally on the cheap. need advice & recommendations

[t0r012]

Alright I'm looking at going for a Pally but I need to do it on the cheap. no silly Tomes or crazy gear (but i do have a +1 chr banked if I like this pally enough)

With that in mind I want to be able to level cheaply. That means no TWF w/ kops or rapiers too expensive. So I am thinking THF Drow. Need advice on weapon, should I go Greatsword or Falc? What is available for holy sword?

going armor
So I have the classic pally conundrum CHR or STR?
thinking either
16 str
14 dex
12 con
10 int
8 wis
17 chr(+1 tome if I'm liking the holy avenger guy)

or go more STR
18 str
10 dex
12 con
10 int
8 wis
16 chr

the str build obviously gives up some dex as well as chr to get the full 18str but is it worth it?
=============
summing up the questions
1. so for a THF drow KotC would you go stat distro 1 or 2?
2. start as hunter of the dead till higher levels with outsiders and convert to KotC?
3. Weapon choice? GSword or Falc. Bag it all and go GAxe till Holy sword is available? (same IC: slash)
4. Any other THF options I'm not thinking of?

[Alternative]

ad.1 Neither, on a non-evasion paladin you want more con. 16str is fine, you shouldn't have problem hitting stuff as a THF.

ad.2 That's the popular approach, yes.

ad.3 GSword vs Falc - using one doesnt lock you away from another, just use what you currently have. There is no holy sword version of falchion though.

ad.4 You're not thinking of eSoS, and you shouldn't be for quite a long time

[unbongwah]

I would still stick with TWF drow paladin. Yeah, so maybe you can't afford good rapiers off the AH, but there are still plenty to be found as loot; and you can get by with short swords if you really need to slum. Plus once you get Holy Sword, it doesn't really matter anymore.

So I would go base stats 16 / 16 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 16. First lvl up into DEX, the rest into STR. Feats: TWF, Toughness, ITWF, Imp Crit Pierce, GTWF, Power Attack, final feat is up for grabs. Take a +2 (or if you're really lucky +4) CHA tome if you find one. You won't be max DPS, but no one playing "on the cheap" is, and you should still be pretty solid.

[lord_of_rage]

I would still stick with TWF drow paladin. Yeah, so maybe you can't afford good rapiers off the AH, but there are still plenty to be found as loot; and you can get by with short swords if you really need to slum. Plus once you get Holy Sword, it doesn't really matter anymore.

So I would go base stats 16 / 16 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 16. First lvl up into DEX, the rest into STR. Feats: TWF, Toughness, ITWF, Imp Crit Pierce, GTWF, Power Attack, final feat is up for grabs. Take a +2 (or if you're really lucky +4) CHA tome if you find one. You won't be max DPS, but no one playing "on the cheap" is, and you should still be pretty solid.

I have to agree with ung here. But you could splash 2 rogue. Your doing things on the cheap. The umd is great evasion helps survivability. But the drow shines here. And as far a weapons go just use the best 1 handers you have.

[unbongwah]

I was presuming the OP was after a pure paladin, but yeah, a rogue (or monk) 2 splash is also great if you don't mind sacrificing the capstone for Evasion and UMD (or 2 feats). Only other downside is it pushes out your ITWF & GTWF feats because your BAB's not high enough at lvl 6 for ITWF.

[t0r012]

yes I was looking at the build again last night
and I saw the 16/16/16 str/dex/chr option, seems like a good spread for a twf.

I'm not opposed to the rogue splash at all in fact it sounds like a fine idea. start with 1 rogue obviously but where should I drop the second? is there an optimal place to top up the UMD with he rogue 2? Is it worth waiting and losing the evasion for that long?
With pally saves is evasion all that important till later anyway, sure its nice to have any time but when does it become very important?

[karl_k0ch]

For a pure 28pt THF KotC there is a nice build by krythan: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=240780

I played this one from 1 to 8 so far and I find it quite nice, though the low Wis does hurt a bit, as I am not able to aquire appropriate +Wis items in order to cast.

[unbongwah]

start with 1 rogue obviously but where should I drop the second? is there an optimal place to top up the UMD with he rogue 2? Is it worth waiting and losing the evasion for that long?

The typical drow (or human) rogue 2 / paladin 18 build spends their 2 skill pts per pally lvl on UMD so it's always got max ranks. I would do rogue 1, then paladin 1-6 to get your first-tier PrE ASAP, then rogue 2. Put your extra points from rogue 2 into a secondary skill like Balance or maybe even Open Lock if you run without a trapmonkey but still want to open chests & doors.

[Gercho]

yes I was looking at the build again last night
and I saw the 16/16/16 str/dex/chr option, seems like a good spread for a twf.

I'm not opposed to the rogue splash at all in fact it sounds like a fine idea. start with 1 rogue obviously but where should I drop the second? is there an optimal place to top up the UMD with he rogue 2? Is it worth waiting and losing the evasion for that long?
With pally saves is evasion all that important till later anyway, sure its nice to have any time but when does it become very important?

I like putting second rogue at about lvl 10, you definitely want evasion when you are going to Gianthold, before that you can have a practically unhitable ac using a full plate and a shield, so for a low resource paladin going shield and board till about lvl 9 or 10 is a good idea (switch to twf if you are in a decent or good group).

[unbongwah]

Here's how I'd do a TWF drow rogue 2 / paladin 18 on the cheap (i.e., no tomes):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     8
Bluff                 3                     3
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             3                     3
Disable Device        4                     4
Haggle                7                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  7                     9
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             7                    15
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                     6
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      7                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality (swap for Power Attack at higher levels)


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

I put the extra skill pts into Open Lock; with the right gear & buffs, you should be able to pick most if not all locks. But feel free to put them elsewhere; Balance, Haggle, Jump, maybe even Spot all have their uses.

[mindlessdrone1991]

There is a lot of good info here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542

[Alternative]

Basically, you want to add the second lvl of rogue at the time you notice you're ac is not good enough anymore, so around lvl10. (thats' what I'm going to do on my TR at least) 16/16/12/10/8/16 is what my pally started with so I can confirm it's full of win, and more importantly a great fun to play, enjoy!

[lord_of_rage]

Here's how I'd do a TWF drow rogue 2 / paladin 18 on the cheap (i.e., no tomes):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     8
Bluff                 3                     3
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             3                     3
Disable Device        4                     4
Haggle                7                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  7                     9
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             7                    15
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                     6
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      7                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality (swap for Power Attack at higher levels)


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock  (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

I put the extra skill pts into Open Lock; with the right gear & buffs, you should be able to pick most if not all locks. But feel free to put them elsewhere; Balance, Haggle, Jump, maybe even Spot all have their uses.

As always ung spot on. The only thing I might change is taking itwf at 9 instead to ad the additional off hand proc chance.

[unbongwah]

Thanks! Yeah, it's a tough call whether Imp Crit or ITWF should be taken first. I suppose it partially depends on what weapons you've got by lvl 9: e.g., if you've got some nice keen rapiers you might want ITWF first; whereas if you've got burst or stat dmg rapiers you'd probably want Imp Crit first. Also, postponing ITWF until lvl 12 gives you that much longer to find or buy +1 DEX tome so you don't need to spend a lvl-up point on DEX and can put it into STR instead.

[Winter_storm]

Nice you just convinced me to change my pally. Will miss the capstone but this looks more fun.

[Stitch78]

Nice you just convinced me to change my pally. Will miss the capstone but this looks more fun.

I'm not telling you to pass up on evasion, but keep in mind that it is more than just the capstone you will miss.

Divine Might IV is a lvl 20 enhancement (though you probably won't have the Chr. for it on the cheap)
Divine Sacrifice III is a lvl 19 enhancement

[unbongwah]

Divine Sacrifice III takes, well, a big sacrifice to get: you need Extra Smite Evil IV which takes 10 enh pts; while DS I-III is 6 pts. I've seen a number of pure pally builds which stop with ESE 3 / DS II (or less) simply because those enh pts are better spent elsewhere.

Likewise, getting Divine Might IV (presuming base CHA 16) would take either a +4 CHA tome or +3 tome + 1 lvl-up at 20 to get. Considering the OP's intent is to do this "on the cheap," I figured it was best not to make any presumptions about how many tomes he could find or buy.