Review of TWF Dps~U5

[Aaxeyu]

It looks like the DPS calculator is adding the divine sacrifice swing damage to a character's DPS, rather than replacing a regular swing with a divine sacrifice swing.

In other words, for any build that has paladin divine sacrifice, the build gets an extra attack swing every 3 seconds. Given that attack swings are roughly 90 per minute (4.5 swings per 3 seconds) up to around 135 attacks per minute (6.75 swings per 3 seconds), this is a DPS increase of around 15-20%. This means that any build that currently uses divine sacrifice, i.e. has 5 or more levels of paladin, currently has its DPS overrepresented by the DPS calculator by around 15-20%.

P.S. You will note this effect when you try out different tiers of divine sacrifice. Going from none to tier 1 gives a huge DPS boost, while going from tier 1 to tier 2 or tier 2 to tier 3 gives very little increase to the DPS.

That is not correct. It does replace regular swings with divine sacrifice swings.

The reason going from none to tier 1 gives such a huge boost is because you never reduced the DS intervall to 0. So it replaced the regular swings with 0 damage attacks.
Also, going from none to tier 1 will always yield more DPS than going from tier 1 to tier 2 or tier 2 to tier 3 because tier 1 gives a crit multiplier and 5d6 extra damage while the other 2 ranks just gives an additional 2d6 damage.

[Vynnt]

There is something wrong with the Rogues again. I thought everything got fixed on the beginning pages

309.89...human, Rogue 20, w/longswords, itwf, w/out sneak attack,
321.35...halfling, Rogue 20, w/shortswords, itwf, w/out sneak attack,

Human should beat halflings. longswords > shortswords. Humans havev +3 str. Both have itwf and 'w/out sneak attack.' I think, the problem is you included halfling sneak attack, even though it would be impossible to have halfling sneak attack and not the Rogue sneak attack.

341.01...dwarf, Rogue 20, w/dwarven axes, gtwf, w/ 50% sneak attack,
396.23...halfling, Ranger 20, w/khopesh, Tempest III, w/rams, against favored enemy,
410.8...warforged, Barbarian, w/heavy pick, gtwf,
414.03...halfling, Rogue 20, w/shortswords, gtwf, w/out sneak attack,

Something is wrong with halfling rogue 20 w/shortswords, gtwf, w/out sneak attack.
There is no way it out does a DA Dwarf with 50% SA. Possibly due to the previous problem, you are counting halfling SA.

You can't turn off Rogue SA without turning off Halfling SA also. 100% fort would stop both.

[Vanshilar]

That is not correct. It does replace regular swings with divine sacrifice swings.

The reason going from none to tier 1 gives such a huge boost is because you never reduced the DS intervall to 0. So it replaced the regular swings with 0 damage attacks.
Also, going from none to tier 1 will always yield more DPS than going from tier 1 to tier 2 or tier 2 to tier 3 because tier 1 gives a crit multiplier and 5d6 extra damage while the other 2 ranks just gives an additional 2d6 damage.

Ahh, I see where that is now. So basically (if I have this right), paladin w/ESoS without divine sacrifice is 441 DPS, whereas with tier 3 divine sacrifice is around 458 DPS, an increase of around 3.7% or so by using divine sacrifice. Does that sound about right?

So somewhere along the line...there's still the matter of the extra DPS that fists of light get. Guess I'll keep looking...

[stormarcher]

There is something wrong with the Rogues again. I thought everything got fixed on the beginning pages


Human should beat halflings. longswords > shortswords. Humans havev +3 str. Both have itwf and 'w/out sneak attack.' I think, the problem is you included halfling sneak attack, even though it would be impossible to have halfling sneak attack and not the Rogue sneak attack.

+2 str is not better then halfling guile +8.

[krud]

+2 str is not better then halfling guile +8.

but halflings don't get the benefit of guile if they aren't getting sneak attacks.

[AylinIsAwesome]

+2 str is not better then halfling guile +8.

That's Sneak Attack damage. Your OP says "without sneak attack", so you have to take that out.

+2 STR is better than the nothing the Halfling would get in the scenario you describe.

[jadenkorr]

May I request dps calculations for pure L20 khopesh fighter and 13 rogue/7 monk please?

[stormarcher]

May I request dps calculations for pure L20 khopesh fighter and 13 rogue/7 monk please?

khopesh fighter is up already in chart 1.

[allaanon]

khopesh fighter is up already in chart 1.

Might want to check again, all I see is a 18 fighter, 2 rogue. No pure.

[ainmosni]

"161.76...elf, Ranger 20, Arcane Archer, Using lit II bow/manyshot,"

im no ultra number crunching dps human TI-81, but my super-gimped FIRST attempt at an arcane archer (with no max-dps build guide, just winged it the entire way to cap) 28-point build with no +3 tomes, epic gear, or anything spectacular at all really gets better dps than this. even without slaying arrows.

i am, like i said, NOT the highest max dps arcane archer out there, and vs FE i'm hitting about 40 average per shot during manyshot, without taking into account critical hits or elemental damage from using a lit2. just base lol.

am i missing something here? is this not taking FE into account? if not, then no crits either? if neither, then no elemental damage from using a lit2? capstone speed bonus? anything lol? you mentioned with lit2 and not a MPG, so i assume lit strikes and the shock/holy damage come into play, otherwise, why not just crunch numbers as if using a MPG, or even a greensteel blank vs a non-dr enemy?

or again.... am i missing something? i feel like my AA is higher dps than a pure cleric who uses melee :/

[stormarcher]

"161.76...elf, Ranger 20, Arcane Archer, Using lit II bow/manyshot,"

im no ultra number crunching dps human TI-81, but my super-gimped FIRST attempt at an arcane archer (with no max-dps build guide, just winged it the entire way to cap) 28-point build with no +3 tomes, epic gear, or anything spectacular at all really gets better dps than this. even without slaying arrows.

i am, like i said, NOT the highest max dps arcane archer out there, and vs FE i'm hitting about 40 average per shot during manyshot, without taking into account critical hits or elemental damage from using a lit2. just base lol.

am i missing something here? is this not taking FE into account? if not, then no crits either? if neither, then no elemental damage from using a lit2? capstone speed bonus? anything lol? you mentioned with lit2 and not a MPG, so i assume lit strikes and the shock/holy damage come into play, otherwise, why not just crunch numbers as if using a MPG, or even a greensteel blank vs a non-dr enemy?

or again.... am i missing something? i feel like my AA is higher dps than a pure cleric who uses melee :/

Air-Pos-Airpos Greensteel Lightning Strike Longbow (1d10 + 5 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 11 + 14 + 3 + 2) + (Burst/Blasts) 19-20/x3 + Lightning Strike (UPDATED)

5.5 + 5 + 11 + 14 + 3 + 2 = 40.5
Misses + Normal Hits + Critical Hits + Slayer Arrows + Arrowhead + Bursts/blasts + Lightning Strike
(0 * 1/20) + (40.5 * 17/20) + (121.5 * 2/20) 3.5 + 3.5 + 25 + 1.2 + 1.8 + 15
0 + 34.425 + 12.15 + 3.5 + 3.5 + 25 + 1.2 + 1.8 + 15 = 96.575 Damage Per Shot

67 * 96.575 = 6470.525 / 60 = 107.842083 Damage Per Second

Adding in Manyshot:

96.575 * 4 = 386.3 * 1/6 = 64.383
96.575 * 5/6 = 80.479167
64.383 + 80.479167 = 144.862167 Damage Per Shot
67 * 9705.765189 = / 60 = 161.7627532 Damage Per Second

[Khurse]

Did I miss what buffs were considered for the DPS numbers?
I noticed the Dark Monk contributer included (I think) 3 Monk past lives, I'm curious if these were also included in the other DPS numbers. (Or were past life rogue etc?)

Nice thread!

[Horkrux]

Old Thread but very cool