Review of TWF Dps~U5

[MrWizard]

wonder how many less hit points the mobs have now?

wonder how their attack speeds have changed (or have they?)

[Dark-Star]

stwf = ?

[Chai]

stwf = ?

Not in the game.

[stormarcher]

stwf = ?

Fixed

[Nick_RC]

Hey man firstly +1 for taking the time to figure this out!

There are a coupla things I think u should consider.

1. Let's max this stuff out gear wise. Anyone who's looking seriously at this list will be looking from an optimization standpoint not a Joe-average standpoint. Bring the epics and +4 str tomes on! Include up to 2 past life feats as getting to 36p seems to be very prominant for the power gamers.

2. I don't quite understand your mentality with boosts. I second what consumer said. Run it over a period of 5 mins and take each builds number of boosts etc into play. 5 mins seems like a very realistic time period.

There were other things I noticed but I forget but will post it later.

Keep it up!

N

[stormarcher]

Hey man firstly +1 for taking the time to figure this out!

There are a coupla things I think u should consider.

1. Let's max this stuff out gear wise. Anyone who's looking seriously at this list will be looking from an optimization standpoint not a Joe-average standpoint. Bring the epics and +4 str tomes on! Include up to 2 past life feats as getting to 36p seems to be very prominant for the power gamers.

2. I don't quite understand your mentality with boosts. I second what consumer said. Run it over a period of 5 mins and take each builds number of boosts etc into play. 5 mins seems like a very realistic time period.

There were other things I noticed but I forget but will post it later.

Keep it up!

N

Thanks!

This whole thread takes alot of number crunching/scenarios/repeating the same numbers to make sure and it is taking alot longer then I first assumed!

How ever I am working on it and withing the next 2-5 days it should be fully completed!

[kingfisher]

..

[Hydro]

1d8 + 21 (str bonus at max dps) + 4 Weapon Spec + 1 unarmed spec + 8 WF powerattack + 5 from weapon,+8 tharnes = ~51,5 damage per hit

31 (sneakattack damage) + 7 damage (Holy on handwraps) + 3.5 damage (Pure Good on handwraps) + 3.5 damage (Icy Burst on handwraps) + 7 damage (Holy Burst on the ring) + 3.5 damage (Acid burst on the ring) =55.5 damage
16 (Touch of death) lowered to 8 if reverted to single proc only = 63.5( took single proc only ) 63.5+63.5=127+51.5=178.5 on average each hit. Add in a 15% percent haste boost ( haste spell)/crits


You can add 3.5 more damage if you have a +5 holy of greater <insert enemy> bane.

Pretty good, I wish you calculated it with double TOD's 80% of the time but this math is beyond me in the morning. Some of the STR and damage bonuses seem off though and it would probably be more accurate if you were using TR monk fists at 2d10. Also wish there was a more accurate way to calculate in earth strikes and X3/X4 crit moves and finishers.

Either way awesome job and I appreciate the work you put into this.

Thanks!

[Monkey_Archer]

Did you calculate all the stats, numbers and dps yourself?
Do all builds include the same gear/buffs or did you just pull what the build's creator listed on their thread?

Chart 1 looks ok for the most part (havent run the numbers myself but it looks close enough as a guess)

Chart 2 has some very big red flags waving in my face that are very hard to ignore....
A few specific examples:

Dominator vs Prodigy - essentially the same build but with either fighter or ranger 12. There is no way that swapping ranger for fighter gives that build an extra 200 dps. In a short term boosted fight i'd expect the Dominator to put out more dps actually...

Monster vs Brute - Again, basically the same build concept but with either tempest or KOTC. Even with the recent tempest nerf, it still provides more dps then 6 pali does. I have no idea how you managed to get KOTC 1 to add 100 dps over tempest....

Monster vs Amazon - I play a build very similar, with 2 fighter instead of rogue (i like stunning blow ) Its a great build, i love it. It does NOT do over 100 dps more then a monster....

Kudos for getting this started.. i know its alot of work But i do suggest you re-examine the numbers on chart 2

[Vynnt]

Like mentioned, something seems off on the second set. Maybe you forgot all the Fighter Haste boosts?

Even on the first chart, there are some alarms. How does a 20 Human cleric w/ Khopesh do more damage than a 20 Human Tempest III w/ khopesh?

[stormarcher]

Did you calculate all the stats, numbers and dps yourself?
Do all builds include the same gear/buffs or did you just pull what the build's creator listed on their thread?

Chart 1 looks ok for the most part (havent run the numbers myself but it looks close enough as a guess)

Chart 2 has some very big red flags waving in my face that are very hard to ignore....
A few specific examples:

Dominator vs Prodigy - essentially the same build but with either fighter or ranger 12. There is no way that swapping ranger for fighter gives that build an extra 200 dps. In a short term boosted fight i'd expect the Dominator to put out more dps actually...
12 ranger gives an offhand proc of 100% and main hand of 105%. with just gtwf your getting 100% main hand 80% off hand.
Monster vs Brute - Again, basically the same build concept but with either tempest or KOTC. Even with the recent tempest nerf, it still provides more dps then 6 pali does. I have no idea how you managed to get KOTC 1 to add 100 dps over tempest....
This includes smites/exalted smites/Divine sacrifice.

Monster vs Amazon - I play a build very similar, with 2 fighter instead of rogue (i like stunning blow ) Its a great build, i love it. It does NOT do over 100 dps more then a monster....
ill go over my work one more time and check
Kudos for getting this started.. i know its alot of work But i do suggest you re-examine the numbers on chart 2

comments in yellow.

[stormarcher]

Like mentioned, something seems off on the second set. Maybe you forgot all the Fighter Haste boosts?

Even on the first chart, there are some alarms. How does a 20 Human cleric w/ Khopesh do more damage than a 20 Human Tempest III w/ khopesh?

-All builds are 18 starting strength,Dex,or Cha/ +5 levels

So they both have the same strength when evaluated in Dps Chart 1. The ranger is not against favored enemy. Cleric has Divine might +4 damage

[Vynnt]

-All builds are 18 starting strength,Dex,or Cha/ +5 levels

So they both have the same strength when evaluated in Dps Chart 1. The ranger is not against favored enemy. Cleric has Divine might +4 damage

A 20 Tempest would have +3 from Rams, +5% doublestrike, +20% offhand.

EDIT:
The being naked is deceiving too, a geared Tempest will get more out of the +20% offhand, a geared Fighter will get more out of its haste boost, crits are bigger, etc.

[grodon9999]

. . .

416.69...The Exploiter Ranger, Created by EinarMal, 18 ranger, 1 rogue, 1 monk. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687

Huh? My calcs don't come anywhere near this high. How strong is the ranger in this calc? I'm going with 110/105 main/off hand attacks a minute.

A 42 STR with 100% sneak attack only gets me 362 against a 0% fort mob that's not acid immune.

[stormarcher]

AEDIT:
The being naked is deceiving too, a geared Tempest will get more out of the +20% offhand, a geared Fighter will get more out of its haste boost, crits are bigger, etc.

yes there will be a 3rd chart with what the build is capable of.
not just being naked.

There will also be a chart of fully MAXED OUT Dps.

Epic items

+4 tomes

Yugo Pots, Store Pots,etc

[stormarcher]

Huh? My calcs don't come anywhere near this high. How strong is the ranger in this calc?

What are your calcs?

[grodon9999]

wonder how many less hit points the mobs have now?

wonder how their attack speeds have changed (or have they?)

The trash-mobs have had HP lowered but not by the same proportion equal to lost DPS (speaking from the perspective of a Tempest III since we lost a dis-proportionate amount). I used to be able to melee down a gaggle of devils before my Displacement scroll wore off while soloing Sins, now it takes a bit longer.

My Arcane Archer on the other hand can gather up a whole herd of devils in Sins, then run down the hall and kill them all before the many-shot wears off. I couldn't do that before U5.

[grodon9999]

What are your calcs?

This is my "live" ranger who is NOT maxed. Unbuffed STR is 28. When is DPS mode I do replace hit Chattering Ring with a ToD ring which has two more Exceptional STR.

STR damge
base 10
Titans 3
Madstone 2
rage 1
EXC 1
PSA 1
Yugo 1
Total STR Bonus: 19


Damage
Base 5.5
STR 19
Magic 5
FE 12
Rams might 2
PA 5
Song 9
Prayer 1
Airship 2



Main 58.5

Off-hand 49


Uncluding crits, acid, holy, Sneak Attack (with tharnes) and a Bloodstone my average damage per hit is:

Main: 108.65
Off: 99.325

This is with mineral II Khpoeshes, One is Holy/acid/acid and the other is Holy/Acid/ +4 AC.

With 110/105 main/off-hand attacks per minute I'm getting a DPS of 373.

[butlerfamilywa]

1d8 + 21 (str bonus at max dps) + 4 Weapon Spec + 1 unarmed spec + 8 WF powerattack + 5 from weapon,+8 tharnes = ~51,5 damage per hit

Shouldn't it be 2d10? And a little higher if TR'd?

[grodon9999]

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A graph of Dps out-put of builds after U5
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I'm sorry, I don't buy it. There is no way the Exploiter does more damage than the Monster.