Elixers of mnemoic enhamncement-aka mana /sp pots

[Tyrande]

[color=red][...]

Now, the current system for obtaining spell point potions has been criticized. Please, by all means, suggest alternate ideas. Just keep in mind: if the current balancing mechanism is removed, a new balancing mechanism must be put in place, or the game will become imbalanced.

I think many new players will criticize the current system for obtaining spell point potions. The #1 reason being that buffing, reconstructing and just being a haste bot is not fun. Most of the new players think that they should be able to nuke as an arcane caster; and that's fun for them.

DDO is not 3.5e PnP. In PnP, you only have two encounters per day and each encounter with no more than probably 5 monsters. After two or three encounters, the wizard or cleric gets to rest and regain ALL their spell slots; or spell points in this case. Where as in DDO, the whole dungeon is more than 2 encounters, and more than 10 monsters.

When DDO developers first play test DDO with casters; they assumed that spell points are infinite. That's probably why the casting monsters don't really have concentration or a mana bar. That's also probably why mana potions were originally sold in beta and back in the days when "The Twelve" was not opened and in a secret in game NPC store. Now that "The Twelve" is opened, the store has been removed.

My suggestion? Grant casters the ability to regenerate spell points to match the number of encounters (monsters) in the dungeon. Reduce the maximum spell points to may be to one-half or one-third of the current maximum amount; but possess the ability to regenerate spell points like may be default of 60 spell points per minute, or 1 spell point per second. Create items of spell point regeneration to make regeneration go faster. Remove all shrines (There are no shrines in PnP). Keep the current availability of spell points potions in AH and DDO store and the Eberron shards.

If spell points ran out; just tell party to "camp" for a couple of minutes to regenerate.
In the same token; for the melees that possess "regeneration" items can regenerate HPs as well and they can stop to quaff their potions instead of depending on the cleric. This also removes the need for dungeon alert and zerging. If party does not want to wait, the casters have the option to leave group and get partial XP or the melees (or ranged fighters with infinite arrows) can go ahead without arcane or divine caster support.

[Tholar]

now we know that some people think they have to have the last word and will argue with a rock. that being the case im done with this thread as there are more things in my day to do. whether you think mana pots should or should be in the npc has nothing to do with the fact that it "should be" this is not just what i think it is something that has occured in EVERY other mmo with casters and mana bars. not some, not just others , but ALL of them. Im just asking for whats rightfully ours. in any case ill never pay my real money for a mana pot. and im done with this thread.

I'm Done! I'm Done! I'm Done!

The OP??

[PNellesen]

If other MMO's jumped off a bridge, would you too?

Dad??? When did YOU start playing DDO????

[EKKM]

And i do know people who have downloaded he game, built a wizard after some time they realize they cant buy mana pots from npc's and oh wait they want me to spend real money to buy ddo points to buy mana pots?, then quickly they uninstall the game and go somewhere else to spend their money. but i guess that just part of it all.

As stated earlier - they won't be able to play DDO anyway and we don't want them. I'ts not costing Turbine $ because they are F2P.

ok all you people saying conserve sp hows this stop asking for buffs,haste and everything else you want them get a clicky,only time i ever get a potion is when someone gives them to me,its not a bad idea to sell pots in a potion vender considering its a POTION vender and it is an elixir potion same thing all you other people posting that it doesnt need done are just old timers who played this game way to long.conserve sp ok so create a caster but dont use any spells.the caster is always the first one in anyparty that i have been in to run out of sp,also clerics and healers use sp when they run out who is the first to give them an sp pot so they can heal you?conserve your thoughts hows that for conserving? this is a suggestion thread not a place for you to ridicule someone for posting a thread.grow up

It's a team game, the melees stand in front and take HP damage instead of you, if the fact that they have no buffs leads them to die then you will die. Is not completing the quest less fun or more fun than nuking a few more mobs?

now we know that some people think they have to have the last word and will argue with a rock. that being the case im done with this thread as there are more things in my day to do. whether you think mana pots should or should be in the npc has nothing to do with the fact that it "should be" this is not just what i think it is something that has occured in EVERY other mmo with casters and mana bars. not some, not just others , but ALL of them. Im just asking for whats rightfully ours. in any case ill never pay my real money for a mana pot. and im done with this thread.

This is what the underlined portion sounds like, just so you know: Everyone else is wrong, I am right.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't get them from NPCs too.

I swear most people on this forum act like they're the devs or something, and happen to be lazy ones at that.

If it's a good idea for you too then don't bash it I'm sure you'd like to buy SP pots every now-and-then too.

It's like telling a melee he can't buy HP pots because he needs to conserve his HP, or get more.

Well no thanks. Give us buyable SP pots. (of course they won't. cash cows wanna' sell it in the DDO store for real monies)

Just so you know, most people that pay to play this game play it because it is a challenge. Other MMOs are not a challenge, in WoW for instance you don't even have to sit at the computer to play it - follow, macro - go do something else. If you don't wnat a challenge go play one of those other MMOs.

[Sweyn]

I am playing a wizard

Well there's your problem, delete that toon and roll a Sorcerer now!!

[Gorbadoc]

I think many new players will criticize the current system for obtaining spell point potions. The #1 reason being that buffing, reconstructing and just being a haste bot is not fun. Most of the new players think that they should be able to nuke as an arcane caster; and that's fun for them....

My suggestion? Grant casters the ability to regenerate spell points to match the number of encounters (monsters) in the dungeon.

I disagree with your suggestion, but +1 for your insights and for explaining your ideas clearly.

My General Disagreement:
The change you're suggesting amounts to an experiment. It would greatly change DDO, and I wouldn't want to see such sweeping changes made when it's unclear whether the change would make the game more or less fun.

It would be interesting to see a quest where your suggestion was implemented-- a quest where spells cost 3x as much as normal, but everyone slowly regenerates spell points. This would give us a better idea of how fun (or not fun) the overhauled casting system would be, and it would give some idea of how spells would have to be rebalanced.

My Specific Worry: Ranged Combat
Your suggestion would pull arcane casters into the ongoing ranged combat debacle.

Ranged combat is problematic in DDO. Many monsters have trouble dealing with it to the point of it being abusive. I've heard the devs actually intend for melee combat to be the dominant form. Even when a character can achieve better ranged DPS than his melee teammates, he does not add to the DPS tally as one might hope; if he picks the same target as a melee fighter, he'll tend to kite it away.

There have been ongoing discussions on this topic, with Turbine making ongoing efforts to make ranged combat viable yet not overpowered.

Nuke spells have been exempt from many of these difficulties. Frost Lance, Disintegrate, and Finger of Death are amazing for killing things from a distance, but this has never been seen as abusive, because wizards and sorcerers are limited by spell points. They have to pick and choose key mobs to tag.

Steady-stream nuking will drag arcanes into this ranged DPS mess. Actually, a strong parallel can be drawn between waiting for one's nukes to recharge and waiting for Manyshot to recharge. I suspect that balancing these suggested changes to casting would hinge on the ongoing struggle to balance ranged DPS.

I'd still like to see this experimental dungeon, where spell points work as you have described. Even if I'm right about nukes inheriting ranged DPS's woes, I'd still like to see the specifics, and I think the quest would, at the very least, be fun as a change of pace.

A suggestion to wannabe nukers:
Yes, your dream is still kind of possible. I think I've said this before, but USE WANDS. Look up the Eternal Wands of... in the unique loot thread (Google 'ddo unique loot' and you'll find it); run the quests needed to get these wands. Also, when a nuke wand comes up as an end reward option, take it. Use it. Enjoy it.

[Tyrande]

I disagree with your suggestion, [...]

My General Disagreement:
The change you're suggesting amounts to an experiment. It would greatly change DDO, and I wouldn't want to see such sweeping changes made when it's unclear whether the change would make the game more or less fun.

It would be interesting to see a quest where your suggestion was implemented-- a quest where spells cost 3x as much as normal, but everyone slowly regenerates spell points. This would give us a better idea of how fun (or not fun) the overhauled casting system would be, and it would give some idea of how spells would have to be rebalanced.

Interesting idea to test it first on a single or a couple of quests. /agreed. Perhaps the implementation would be that the party encountered a constant stream of ether power and the caster's body seems to be absorbing that power. However, due to the constant flowing stream with butterfly effect (with butterflies); whenever the caster(s) expend spells, it would flow out twice (or thrice) as fast.

My Specific Worry: Ranged Combat
Your suggestion would pull arcane casters into the ongoing ranged combat debacle.

Ranged combat is problematic in DDO. Many monsters have trouble dealing with it to the point of it being abusive. I've heard the devs actually intend for melee combat to be the dominant form. Even when a character can achieve better ranged DPS than his melee teammates, he does not add to the DPS tally as one might hope; if he picks the same target as a melee fighter, he'll tend to kite it away.

[...]

Steady-stream nuking will drag arcanes into this ranged DPS mess. Actually, a strong parallel can be drawn between waiting for one's nukes to recharge and waiting for Manyshot to recharge. I suspect that balancing these suggested changes to casting would hinge on the ongoing struggle to balance ranged DPS.

I'd still like to see this experimental dungeon, where spell points work as you have described. Even if I'm right about nukes inheriting ranged DPS's woes, I'd still like to see the specifics, and I think the quest would, at the very least, be fun as a change of pace.
[...]

As far as ranged nuking is concerned; there are strategies like that was done in epic Offering of Blood. Let the melees formed a wall to block the monsters and the arcanes ranged attacked (from a ledge or switch). In that case, the monsters can't reach the arcanes and yet wouldn't attack the melees as much. It is a form of effective crowd control and yet effective damage.

Or as in the case of Threnal (or other places), let the melees block the door. Arcanes nuke from behind. Don't kite around the monsters, let the melees block.
Once aggro has been established, the melees can then start swinging. Same strategy can be applied to ranged combatants (arcane archers).

[Tyrande]

[...]

A suggestion to wannabe nukers:
Yes, your dream is still kind of possible. I think I've said this before, but USE WANDS. Look up the Eternal Wands of... in the unique loot thread (Google 'ddo unique loot' and you'll find it); run the quests needed to get these wands. Also, when a nuke wand comes up as an end reward option, take it. Use it. Enjoy it.

Problem with eternal wands: they attack slower and only deal single digit damage. The higher level wands (up to 10) also attack much slower, and only deal lower damage. The available eternal wands are still lackluster.

Somehow I get a feeling that the developers do not want nuking as an alternative strategy to melee damage.