Death Penalty XP Debt

[Zenthalas]

Bring it back. Thank you, that is all.

[mindlessdrone1991]

Hi Welcome

[Ukenburger]

I've run out of horses so this will have to do.

[Strik3r]

I've run out of horses so this will have to do.

roflma good one +1 rep

[Dysmetria]

Bring it back. Thank you, that is all.

How about we leave things as they are now which the vast majority of us prefer, and you can impose the penalty on yourself by standing around doing nothing for an hour or three or however long you feel is necessary to equal the xp penalty you wish to receive every time you die. Win/Win.

[spyderwolf]

How about we leave things as they are now which the vast majority of us prefer, and you can impose the penalty on yourself by standing around doing nothing for an hour or three or however long you feel is necessary to equal the xp penalty you wish to receive every time you die. Win/Win.

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

[Mirta]

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

^^This^^

max reps!

[Dungnmaster001]

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

This may be true. However xp death penalty will never be a part of this game again. Why? because it would anger a large portion of the player base. Many of them new players who would likely quit rather than learn to deal with the penalty. It's simple mathematics the number of players who want it < the number of customers who won't.

Turbine is in the business of making money just like any other company (strangely many people feel this is a bad thing which truly confuses me). It doesn't mean they don't care about the game, just that they have to pay the bills.

However, that said, I would like to see a real penalty for death. The current death penalties are too weak to be a deterrent and should be increased and/or made harder to get rid of.

[Phidius]

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

I'm totally in support of a system that will encourage people to play smarter, but not one that encourages people to not play.

I'd rather that the current "Not Dying Bonus" and the old XP Debt system were combined.

Everytime you die in a quest, you get a cumulative XP penalty (not the party, just you) that is subtracted from the quest's XP. Worst case scenario, you don't get any XP from that quest (unless you restart it), but will get full XP from the next quest. Basically, you don't advance, but you don't regress either.

This would also help encourage experienced players to play with the less experienced. At least, it would remove one of the reasons for not playing with them... the other reasons are too complicated for this thread. Let's save it for another day.

[Dungnmaster001]

Everytime you die in a quest, you get a cumulative XP penalty (not the party, just you) that is subtracted from the quest's XP. Worst case scenario, you don't get any XP from that quest (unless you restart it), but will get full XP from the next quest. Basically, you don't advance, but you don't regress either.

Now that is probably the best suggestion I've heard yet. +1

[Nysrock]

From what I experienced with the old debt xp, it didn't seem to make a difference on how people played. Those that were bad players then are still bad players now.

The only thing it did was make more people drop a party when they started dying and made PUGs never want to do anything besides normal for fear of debt.


I would, however, like to see the xp bonus for completing a higher level quest on a lower lever character reinstated. It was always nice to see that 30% bonus for doing a level 8 quest with a level 5 character. Plus it made people challenge themselves in party to try for that extra bonus.

[Herbalist]

When Death Penalty went away I started playing PermaDeath. Enough said.

[Dysmetria]

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

I wasn't around back then but I imagine that the current system with rentry penalties and death penalties does just as good a job as the xp penalty did of "forcing people" to learn to play their toons. I would also wager there were plenty of bad players back then too, but between your elitism and nostalgia I will understand why you wouldn't agree.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

Or one of the thousands of good players that didn't start playing until after it was removed. We'd all view the addition as a major nerf to our fun and enjoyment of this game.

Now I am curious. If it is such a popular system, why was it removed in the first place?

[Deriaz]

I can't see it coming back, especially with the whole "needing more XP to level" that True Reincarnation gives you.

I also didn't see much more cautious play when it was around back then. If someone died once, we just brought them to a shrine, apologized, and continued on. If someone died twice, they usually left. If we all wiped, we abandoned the quest and moved to something easier that wouldn't be a challenge.

Did I like the XP debt? Yeah, sort of. It was a nice kick in the stomach that made me realize, "Okay, maybe that's not the best idea," but most of what I learned, I learned from asking questions from other people and taking advice. Not dying and taking a penalty. I didn't always like the idea that a whole week's worth of playtime could be nullified by a couple deaths -- I like progress, but not being told the next week's worth of progress would just be getting back to where I was.

I like the cumulative penalty idea. I think if that was stepped carefully, it could be a really good middle-ground.

[Zorth]

because xp penalty FORCED people to learn to play their toons. now anyone can pike and be a liability at high levels because they never learned what their class was capable of.

those who are against xp death penalty are generally(but not always) crappy players to begin with.

Right.

[spyderwolf]

I wasn't around back then but I imagine that the current system with rentry penalties and death penalties does just as good a job as the xp penalty did of "forcing people" to learn to play their toons.

lol not even close to the same. before if you died once in a quest you basically had to complete the quest to break even. if you died twice then you were normally in the hole . you had too play alot smarter before. before the xp death penalty you could join a pug at cap and be fairly confident that the group would be solid. afterwards your lucky if 1 in 5 groups are solid.

people point to the server merges, or the ftp system as why pugs went downhill. none of that had as big of an effect as the removal of xp debt. and the best part about it, it was indiviual, so if some idiot went off and got himself/herself killed it didnt affect anyone other than them. now they can go off get killed losing you 10% xp and still be able to level just fine by piking off others. so when they do get to high levels/capped they are useless.

sarlona has more than a few imfamously bad players and im sure all the other servers do as well. if there was xp debt those players woulda been forced to actually learn how to play instead of only knowing how to say shr plz!

[BurningDownTheHouse]

lol not even close to the same. before if you died once in a quest you basically had to complete the quest to break even. if you died twice then you were normally in the hole . you had too play alot smarter before. before the xp death penalty you could join a pug at cap and be fairly confident that the group would be solid. afterwards your lucky if 1 in 5 groups are solid.

people point to the server merges, or the ftp system as why pugs went downhill. none of that had as big of an effect as the removal of xp debt. and the best part about it, it was indiviual, so if some idiot went off and got himself/herself killed it didnt affect anyone other than them. now they can go off get killed losing you 10% xp and still be able to level just fine by piking off others. so when they do get to high levels/capped they are useless.

sarlona has more than a few imfamously bad players and im sure all the other servers do as well. if there was xp debt those players woulda been forced to actually learn how to play instead of only knowing how to say shr plz!

So, so true...
+1-ed you on your previous post, but this one is even more deserving.

[Brennie]

No. Heck No. No frikkin way, no!

I played when there was XP debt. This game was tediously slow back then. Groups crawled forward, no one wanted to take aggro, and death was something that was feared by everyone.

Unfortunately, death is not always avoidable. Sometimes it happens, even with skill, experience, teamwork, planning, gear, and expert builds. Sometimes it happens a lot. Even the most awesome characters/players in the game roll a 1 sometimes.

But I do not want to go back to a world of only playing on normal, only playing with a perfect group set up, denying anyone and everyone who i think has even a remote chance of not pulling their weight, and having a big ol' list of quests i will never run (often including several with beholders in it). I don't want to go back to a world where a string of bad luck makes me lose levels, where taking a chance on a pug makes me want to quit the game, where a couple deaths means /ragequittings, a dissolved group, and yet ANOTHER quest uncompleted.

I don't need the aggravation. Whether or not you can complete a quest in a timely fashion, without teamwiping or running up a consumable/repair bill that exceeds your loot income is a good benchmark of whether you and your group should do a quest. Gauging against whether you can do it without tantrums about XP loss, however, is not.

[Visty]

But I do not want to go back to a world of only playing on normal, only playing with a perfect group set up, denying anyone and everyone who i think has even a remote chance of not pulling their weight, and having a big ol' list of quests i will never run (often including several with beholders in it). I don't want to go back to a world where a string of bad luck makes me lose levels, where taking a chance on a pug makes me want to quit the game, where a couple deaths means /ragequittings, a dissolved group, and yet ANOTHER quest uncompleted.

you dont pug, do you?

[Kriogen]

...
Now I am curious. If it is such a popular system, why was it removed in the first place?

Because it was not popular.