Blizt: AKA The Barbarian Protest Build. 12/6/2 (Reference Post)

[BlackPlague]

I notice on the OP that you're gaining +2 to hit from the Shintao and Kensai (Total +4). Is this possible? I thought both were necklace slotted and you could only use 1 at a time.

Love the build. Abso-frigging-lutely looks like SO much fun! Thanks for sharing it with the world Nick.

[Quikster]

I notice on the OP that you're gaining +2 to hit from the Shintao and Kensai (Total +4). Is this possible? I thought both were necklace slotted and you could only use 1 at a time.

Love the build. Abso-frigging-lutely looks like SO much fun! Thanks for sharing it with the world Nick.

Im guessing shintao is the item set, kensai is the enhancements.

[BlackPlague]

Im guessing shintao is the item set, kensai is the enhancements.

That would make sense. Thanks Quik.

No trolling here just verification.

[Quikster]

That would make sense. Thanks Quik.

No trolling here just verification.

NP and i dont think anyone thinks your question is trolling

[Crann]

Got khopesh version to 11 now.....what a beast

My leveling order is different, and I like the OP's better. I took Rogue at level one, and the regret there is that no skills are high enough to matter in the early levels, and the BAB is one lower. Not so much of an issue hitting, as it is with having to wait to take feats that require BAB.

Novice builders (like me) would do well to follow the builds of the experienced guys more closely...there are alot of not so obvious reasons why leveling progressions are planned out like they are

I also took Barb at 2 and 3. This was not so bad, as having the run speed and a couple useful rages early made things a little quicker grinding through early content. This delays kensai 2 until level 15, so we will see what regrets I experience there.

At level 11 now, and am transitioning from my trusty Carnifex to a pair of Kopeshes (+5 in main, +1 Seeker 8 in off.) Level 12 was also my target point to convert from THF to TWF, as that will see the arrival of the Greater TWF feat.

I'd like to reinforce what the OP said about using 2 handers up until this point....With the U5 TWF change...you aren't even swinging your off hand weapon 60% of the time with only 1 TWF feat.

Alot of people don't take into consideration that THF gets you a 1.5 STR bonus, a 2-1 ratio on Power attack bonus/penalty, and some glancing blows.

You are giving up alot of DPS if you are swinging 2 weapons early on with this...or most any...build.

[Consumer]

My PL Barb version is currently at 14 and plowing through everything it runs. I've run mostly with TRs and only ever been beaten in kills once and I was afk for half the run. For anyone interested I put a calc of this build without PL feats in the HO forum after there was some awful assumptions going on. I wasn't in the mood to work with proper decimal places so just cut everything off at 4. The DPS comes out slightly higher when using a spreadsheet but it is close enough.

Gear

Head - epic helm of the red dragon
Trinket - litany of the dead
Necklace - shintao cord
Armour - epic marilith chain
Cloak - GS earthgrab
Belt - Colethenis's belt
Bracers - epic bracers of the claw
Gloves - epic gloves of the claw
Ring - ravagers ring
Ring - kyosho's ring
Boots - madstone

Str

20 base
5 levels
7 item
4 tome
5 enhancements
1 litany
8 powers surge
4 rage
2 orc power rage
2 barb power rage
2 frenzy
2 rage spell
2 yugo pot
2 madstone
2 guild
= 68 str





damage on 2-16

main hand

5.5 GS Khopesh
5 weapon modifier
29 str
10 PA
2 hobgoblin
2 Shintao
1 Litany
4 claw set
9 Bard
1 Prayer
1 mastery
2 kensei
4 specialization
= 75.5 damage
7 vicious
7 ravager
7 alignment
3.5 shocking
1 force ritual
12 lightning strike (2% chance of 600 damage)
= 113
14.5 SA damage

= 127.5 total damage

offhand (50% str bonus) = 113 damage (61 multiplied on a crit)

damage on a 17 - 19

main hand

75.5 + 10 seeker = 85.5
85.5 *3 (multiplier on a Khopesh) = 256.5

+
7 vicious
7 ravager
7 alignment
3.5 shocking
1 force ritual
12 lightning strike (2% chance of 600 damage)
14.5 SA damage
= 308.5
4d10 (burst/blast) = 22

= 320.5 total damage

offhand

((61+10)*3)= 213
+
7 vicious
7 ravager
7 alignment
3.5 shocking
1 force ritual
12 lightning strike (2% chance of 600 damage)
14.5 SA damage
4d10 (burst/blast) = 22

= 287 total damage

on a 20

320.5 + 4d6 = 334.5 total main hand damage
287 + 4d6 = 301 total off hand damage


20 sided die

1= 0 damage
2-16 = 127.5/113
17 - 19 = 320.5/287
20 = 334.5/301



Attacks per minute

Main hand - 100% proc
Off hand - 80% proc


attack speed modifiers

haste - 15%
fighter haste boost IV - 30%
inspire recklessness - 5 % doublestrike
Quick draw


activations per minute

Frenzy
Powersurge
Haste boost IV * 2

haste boost active for 20 seconds and on cool down for 10 seconds. Boosted for 40 seconds per minute.


(38.8/60)= 64.6666% of attacks are hasted
105.53/100 = 1.0553
1.0553*64.6666= 68.2427 hasted attacks per minute
(68.2427/100)*30= 20.4728 extra attacks per minute

total activation time 2.4 seconds
57.6/60= 96%
(105.53/100)*96= 101.3088 attacks per minute

101.3088+20.4728= 121.7816 attacks per minute hasted and boosted with activations

(101.3088/100)*5(doublestrike)= 5.0654

121.7816+5.0654= 126.8470 main hand attacks per minute

off hand

(105.53/100)*80= 84.424 attacks per minute
64.6666% of 84.424= 54.5941 attacks boosted per minute
(54.5941/100)*30= 16.3782 extra attacks per minute

(84.424/100)*96= 81.0470
81.0470+16.3782= 97.4252 hasted and boosted attacks per minute with activations


DPM

main hand

126.8470/20= 6.3424
2-16= 6.3424*15*127.5= 12129.7444
17-19= 6.3424*3*320.5= 6098.2176
20=6.3424*334.5= 2121.5328
= 20349.4948

off hand
97.4252/20= 4.8713
2-16= 4.8713*15*113= 8256.7857
17-19= 4.8713*3*287= 4194.1893
20= 4.8713*301= 1466.2613
= 13917.2363

20349.4948+13917.2363= 34266.7311 total damage per minute

DPS

34266.7311/60 = 571.1122 DPS

[Resilian]

I know it's not desirable with this build, but if I were to make a 32pt build w/ no past lifes what would you reccommend for a feat in place of the PL feat? OTWF possibly? Another toughness? Should I just quit while I'm ahead? Lol..

Edit: Changed enhancements to get Orcish Rage I, Extend Rage II and Orcish Fury..this will only somewhat offset the the loss of the PL feat, but it still helps.

[zm00094]

Taking the rog levels later means I can pump em all into umd as its a class skill. Keeping intim maxed apart from those 2 levels I can catch up on the 2 missed intim points with the last 2 barb levels having eaten a +2 tome whilst keeping umd maxed as well.

As to evasion. Yeah its a personal thing. I got so sick of 'evasion this evasion that' a few mods back that I started an anti evasion campaign. Its probably the most overrated feat in my eyes. Noobs rocking around thinking they are UBER because they have evasion (and a 20 reflex...) got to me. Basically in mty eyes its a crutch that undergeared or underskilled players rely on.

Good catch on the I2wf will switch feats around accordingly!Cheers

N

I can believe that if you assume that you have ~900 hit points. Down around 300-400 it starts to have an effect on survivability.

[Hanam]

Protection from Evil is Groan's bread and butter

[Quikster]

I can believe that if you assume that you have ~900 hit points. Down around 300-400 it starts to have an effect on survivability.

Evasion can help, but its by no means necessary for any build. Nick isnt a dumbarse, he knows what evasion does and doesnt do. But I agree with him. Wasting a splash on evasion with a 20 reflex is stupid.

[Blank_Zero]

doing this as a HOrc on my 2nd Life (Fighter past) and it's fun for sure...

the only thing I might have to gripe about is the lack of Skill points at lvl ups so far... HOrcs are kinda dumb lol.
also, WF get all those immunities....

it's kinda a toss up between them...

HOrc: does quite a few more points of DPS, and better tactics therefore, which is the main idea of the build;

-or-

WF: has immunities, Arcane Healing, more skill points (no INT penalty), can easily get over 100% Heal amp

Also, human on this build wouldn't suck, nor would Dwarf (human gets more feats and skill points, as well as being able to buff str somewhat; Dwarf gets D Axes, Axe Damage/to-hit APs, Tactics like a WF, Con AP like a WF, but still fleshie)

It really comes down to preferences on a build like this I think. Lots of options that all make viable toons... just depends on what your playstyle is I suppose? =D

[NoidRoid]

I've been toying with the idea of going 12 fighter 6 barb 2 ranger Horc on my final TR. I realize that evasion is a minor part of this build but I'm gathering resources to make a huge offer for a marilith chain scroll which would make evasion almost completely useless at cap.

Here's what I'm milling over.

2 Ranger:
Major Advantages: Extra Feat due to TWF being granted, this would be used for a 2nd toughness. +3 FE damage vs Evil Outsiders for raid boss DPS. Could start with 7 INT and use a +3 tome and litany to prevent silver flame pot helplessness(I'm not sure how you're getting to 11 in your OP btw), very few skills are needed which is why starting with a low INT is an advantage.

Minor Advantages: 4 more hp from ranger levels instead of rogue. 1 more BAB for times when you're not madstoned. Heal wands for early levels when rogue UMD isn't enough. Bow Strength and Rapid Shot for better ranged damage than throwers.

2 Rogue:
Major Advantages: 1d6+3 sneak attack damage. UMD for True Neutral while still having access to RR stuff, chaosblades, pure good etc. You can open locks and get low level traps for extra xp. Evasion for extra surivability while leveling, this advantage disappears at cap when the marilith chain comes into play.

Minor Advantages: Can gear swap for heal or GH scrolls when not fighting and not raged/madstoned. Fire Shield or Divine Favor scrolls when not raged/madstoned. Can gear swap to a robe and bloodstone at cap if you want evasion for a certain situation. These are all minor advantages to me because this is a perma-raged/madstoned build that ideally wears marilith and litany 99% of the time for max DPS.


Analysis: Ranger is better for main tanking, Rogue is better for trash and bosses that don't need a main tank such as Harry, Velah, Demon Queen. There's a 24 hp difference and 3 FE damage vs 0 Sneak Attack for tanking Horroth/Sulu. I think the demon at the end of Into the Deep and megatron from Chronosphere are also EOs, a main tank is useful for both(correct me if I'm wrong on the last two).

Rogue is easier to level up with evasion, open lock, and limited but sufficient trap skills for deleras, von 3, tangleroot etc.. Rangers get heal wands and could temporarily take FE: Undead but this advantage still goes to Rogue.

Ranger requires less skills allowing a lower starting INT to open up the possibility of 17 CON with a number of other +3 tomes and a litany(my goal is to not go helpless after a silver flame pot using gear and tomes to get int/cha/wis at 11 or more). Both versions should have max Intim with a functional spot/balance imo, rogue should also max UMD and have a functional open lock which requires a higher INT.


Those are my thoughts on the validity of a 2 ranger splash for a final TR with optimal gear and tomes. Not saying that it's better or worse, just analyzing. I do not think 8 Barb or 14 Fighter is better than either of the 2 level splashes and 2 monk isn't possible so rog/ranger look to be the only viable options after getting Kensai 2 and FB 1 on this build. I'm well aware that the DPS chart will favor the rogue version but I'm looking for a more functional analysis of the value of 2 rogue levels on this build. I refuse to concede my tanking ability by making the move from WF to Horc, it's tricky but doable despite the lack of APs for HP boosting and near impossibility of starting with more than 16 CON.

[goresplasher]

DPS

34266.7311/60 = 571.1122 DPS

thats sick.

that said, ive grouped with you on argo before (i remember Groan its a Warforged) and despite not having the barb past life, i liked this build enough to TR into it. there were other khopesh horc builds, and i could always stay pure fighter, but theres just nothing wrong with this build! even w/o the barb past life, which does greatly compliment the build, this should be a fun layout.

edit: one thing i'd throw out there though is that leveling is MUCH EASIER if you do a couple of shuffles of enhancements while progressing. ie: aim for orc fury, extra clickies, all the str you can get, and if you dont mind the re-spec'ing of feats, go THF bonus early on. right now im charging through the low levels almost completely solo.

[Nick_RC]

Love the build. Abso-frigging-lutely looks like SO much fun! Thanks for sharing it with the world Nick.

Very welcome. Quick Got the rest - Cheers Quick.

Got khopesh version to 11 now.....what a beast

My leveling order is different, and I like the OP's better. I took Rogue at level one, and the regret there is that no skills are high enough to matter in the early levels.

I'd like to reinforce what the OP said about using 2 handers up until this point....With the U5 TWF change...you aren't even swinging your off hand weapon 60% of the time with only 1 TWF feat.

Alot of people don't take into consideration that THF gets you a 1.5 STR bonus, a 2-1 ratio on Power attack bonus/penalty, and some glancing blows.

You are giving up alot of DPS if you are swinging 2 weapons early on with this...or most any...build.

Exactly right About 2wf vs 2hf at low levels. I honestly have no idea when I see alot of vets running aorund with 2 weapons at level 2. Two handed is for sure the way to go until G2wf in my mind even without any of the feats for it. You 1-2 shot most things all the way uo to level 12 then switch to your greensteal. As to the skill points yup. HO are kinda dumb so makes it dificult. Glad ur enjoying him!

My PL Barb version is currently at 14 and plowing through everything it runs. I've run mostly with TRs and only ever been beaten in kills once and I was afk for half the run. For anyone interested I put a calc of this build without PL feats in the HO forum after there was some awful assumptions going on. I wasn't in the mood to work with proper decimal places so just cut everything off at 4. The DPS comes out slightly higher when using a spreadsheet but it is close enough.

Gear

Head - epic helm of the red dragon
Trinket - litany of the dead
Necklace - shintao cord
Armour - epic marilith chain
Cloak - GS earthgrab
Belt - Colethenis's belt
Bracers - epic bracers of the claw
Gloves - epic gloves of the claw
Ring - ravagers ring
Ring - kyosho's ring
Boots - madstone

20349.4948+13917.2363= 34266.7311 total damage per minute

DPS

34266.7311/60 = 571.1122 DPS

Hey man I dont believe I ever got the time to thank you for runnign all the calcs etc. Very much appreciated. I have downloaded A_O's DPS calc but My mind go's blank looking at it. I always have gone with gut instinct about dps but its really nice to have the numbers to back it up. Are you running Khop or heavy pick?

I know it's not desirable with this build, but if I were to make a 32pt build w/ no past lifes what would you reccommend for a feat in place of the PL feat? OTWF possibly? Another toughness? Should I just quit while I'm ahead? Lol..

Edit: Changed enhancements to get Orcish Rage I, Extend Rage II and Orcish Fury..this will only somewhat offset the the loss of the PL feat, but it still helps.

Yeah Id likely switch to oversize to make sure of ur too hit as that essentially splits the difference in too hit. It can be done for sure but ideally you would have the PL. Maybe try him out at cap and love him LR+3 him once and TR him right away. With a +3 lessr heart of wood that would put you at 9 barb/9ftr/2rog and because the class priority on PL is based on alphebetical order you should be getting the barb PL with just one LR. You can TR right after you LR as well btw. This could be a nice option for you.

N

[Nick_RC]

I've been toying with the idea of going 12 fighter 6 barb 2 ranger Horc on my final TR. I realize that evasion is a minor part of this build but I'm gathering resources to make a huge offer for a marilith chain scroll which would make evasion almost completely useless at cap.

Here's what I'm milling over.

2 Ranger:
Major Advantages: Extra Feat due to TWF being granted, this would be used for a 2nd toughness. +3 FE damage vs Evil Outsiders for raid boss DPS. Could start with 7 INT and use a +3 tome and litany to prevent silver flame pot helplessness(I'm not sure how you're getting to 11 in your OP btw), very few skills are needed which is why starting with a low INT is an advantage.

Minor Advantages: 4 more hp from ranger levels instead of rogue. 1 more BAB for times when you're not madstoned. Heal wands for early levels when rogue UMD isn't enough. Bow Strength and Rapid Shot for better ranged damage than throwers.

2 Rogue:
Major Advantages: 1d6+3 sneak attack damage. UMD for True Neutral while still having access to RR stuff, chaosblades, pure good etc. You can open locks and get low level traps for extra xp. Evasion for extra surivability while leveling, this advantage disappears at cap when the marilith chain comes into play.

Minor Advantages: Can gear swap for heal or GH scrolls when not fighting and not raged/madstoned. Fire Shield or Divine Favor scrolls when not raged/madstoned. Can gear swap to a robe and bloodstone at cap if you want evasion for a certain situation. These are all minor advantages to me because this is a perma-raged/madstoned build that ideally wears marilith and litany 99% of the time for max DPS.


Analysis: Ranger is better for main tanking, Rogue is better for trash and bosses that don't need a main tank such as Harry, Velah, Demon Queen. There's a 24 hp difference and 3 FE damage vs 0 Sneak Attack for tanking Horroth/Sulu. I think the demon at the end of Into the Deep and megatron from Chronosphere are also EOs, a main tank is useful for both(correct me if I'm wrong on the last two).

Rogue is easier to level up with evasion, open lock, and limited but sufficient trap skills for deleras, von 3, tangleroot etc.. Rangers get heal wands and could temporarily take FE: Undead but this advantage still goes to Rogue.

Ranger requires less skills allowing a lower starting INT to open up the possibility of 17 CON with a number of other +3 tomes and a litany(my goal is to not go helpless after a silver flame pot using gear and tomes to get int/cha/wis at 11 or more). Both versions should have max Intim with a functional spot/balance imo, rogue should also max UMD and have a functional open lock which requires a higher INT.


Those are my thoughts on the validity of a 2 ranger splash for a final TR with optimal gear and tomes. Not saying that it's better or worse, just analyzing. I do not think 8 Barb or 14 Fighter is better than either of the 2 level splashes and 2 monk isn't possible so rog/ranger look to be the only viable options after getting Kensai 2 and FB 1 on this build. I'm well aware that the DPS chart will favor the rogue version but I'm looking for a more functional analysis of the value of 2 rogue levels on this build. I refuse to concede my tanking ability by making the move from WF to Horc, it's tricky but doable despite the lack of APs for HP boosting and near impossibility of starting with more than 16 CON.

This is a REALLY good post dude +1. Personally Il be shooting for both mari chain and red dragonscale. Anything susceptible to fire you will be doing more dmg with the red + epic bloodstone especially in autocrit situations. Anything fire doesnt work against then chuck on the Mari chain. If this is too much investment in one toon (and lets face it thats alot of tradebait rigth there) then i'd say just choose. Personally Id take the 2 rog. You make a strong argument for main tanking with the ranger splash and if what you are running is primarily raids then the 2 rgr might not be a bad option at all. But the sneak will work on **** near everything whilst the ranger is only so good against EO. It just comes down to the quests you run most often. Your thinking is sound so really whichever you decide on will be right for you either way if that makes sence.

N

[Nick_RC]

Cleaned up the OP and added a modest description of what to shoot for equipment wise.

I will post a playstyle guide and maybe a leveling guide in the next few weeks and some other bits and pieces. If im slow in responding here apologies am quite busy atm.

N

[Consumer]

Hey man I dont believe I ever got the time to thank you for runnign all the calcs etc. Very much appreciated. I have downloaded A_O's DPS calc but My mind go's blank looking at it. I always have gone with gut instinct about dps but its really nice to have the numbers to back it up. Are you running Khop or heavy pick?

Lit II Khops, with heavy picks your looking at a loss of ~50 DPS against 0% fort, ~20 DPS against 50% fort and 3/4 DPS against 100% fort.

Against 0% you will be auto crit in most cases anyway giving the heavy picks a large advantage.

[Nick_RC]

Lit II Khops, with heavy picks your looking at a loss of ~50 DPS against 0% fort, ~20 DPS against 50% fort and 3/4 DPS against 100% fort.

Against 0% you will be auto crit in most cases anyway giving the heavy picks a large advantage.

Right on.

[goresplasher]

Fairly obvious gear suggestions that arent incredibly hard to get/good bang for buck:
Goggles: Tharne's Goggles (VOD)
Wrists: Levik's Bracers (Hound)
Head: Greensteel helm/Minos Legens
Rings: FB, Shintao (amrath/tod)
Belt: FB (amrath/tod)
Necklace: shintao (amrath/tod)
Trinket: Bloodstone (sands)
Gloves: epic claw, epic spectral, GS if you have the ingredients and neither of the first two, spectral if nothing else
Cloak: epic festival cloak, GS cloak, resistance or protection +5 til you have better
Boots: madstone (Reaver's fate)
Torso: DragonTouched healing amps, epic marilith later on

just throwing this out for newer players that may not know names of items/where to look.

btw, you misspelled "neutral" on the front page. only noticed cus i was checking lawful vs true neutral when creating

[NoidRoid]

Here's what I'm thinking for gear.

Trash:
Tharnes
GS Helm (Cleansed, Disease/Blindness Immunity, +35 HP, Salt Guard)
GS Cloak (+10 HP, good guard, shock guard, lightning strike guard)
Litany of the Dead
Epic Bracers of the Claw(+2 Exceptional CON, Heavy Fort)
Epic Gloves of the Claw(30% Amp)
Shintao Chord
Knost's Belt
Kyosho's Ring (20% Amp)
Encrusted Ring (+2 STR)
Madstone Boots
Epic Marilith Chain(Blue - Good Luck, Colorless - +1 Exceptional CON), Abbot/Mabar Nightsheild Clicky for +3 resist.


Tanking:
GS Goggles (+10 HP, good guard, shock guard, Lightning Strike guard)
GS Helm (Cleansed, Disease/Blindness Immunity, +35 HP, Salt Guard)
Epic Envenomed Cloak (Blue - Toughness)
Litany of the Dead
Epic Bracers of the Claw(+2 Exceptional CON, Heavy Fort)
Epic Gloves of the Claw(30% Amp)
Shintao Chord
Knost's Belt
Kyosho's Ring (20% Amp)
Encrusted Ring (+2 STR)
Madstone Boots
Epic Marilith Chain(Blue - Good Luck, Colorless - +1 Exceptional CON)


If you're a real sicko, swapping in Epic Red Dragonscale and Epic Bloodstone would be useful at times. The sheer awesomeness of the Claw allows for a very organic 171% Horc amp with ship buff and 111% on WF with buff and Healer's Friend I. Where's the Red Dragon Helm? With a +4 tome this build would need to spend 6 APs for Fighter STR III to get 44 standing with that helm. Good luck with that.