Ranger Hate Tank

[Quikster]

Going to be lvling a new tr soon. Current life is 12 rog/6 ranger/1 monk. Looking to make this into a decent ac hate tank. Currently halfling and will remain halfling for several reasons, but mainly due to the name Comments about other races are welcome, just know that I wont be changing I tried to keep the pertinent stuff everyone looks at towards the beginning and the stuff others tend to gloss over later in the post.

12 Ranger/7 Paly/1 Monk

Starting Stats

Strength~ 13 (8 points)
Dexterity~ 17 (8 points)
Constitution~15 (8 points)
Intelligence~10 (2 points)
Wisdom~14 (6 points)
Charisma~12 (4 points)

36 total points


Ending Stats

Str~13 start + 3 tome +5 lvls + 3 exceptional +7 item +1 lotd = 32 (11 mod)
Dex~17 start +3 tome +1 exceptional +7 item +1 lotd + 3 ranger +2 halfling= 34 (12 mod)
Constitution~15 start + 3 tome + 6 item +1 lotd + 3 exceptional = 28 (9 mod)
Int~10 starting +3 tome = 13
Wis~ 14 start + 2 tome + 7 item +1 exceptional +1 lotd = 24 (8 mod)
Cha~ 12 start +3 tome + 6 item + 1 paly +1 lotd = 22 (6 mod)

Currently have +3's for con/int, will gather the rest next life.

Feats

1(R1)-Dodge
2(M1)-Mobility
3(R2)-Khopesh
4(R3)-*
5(R4)*
6(R5)-Spring Attack
7(R6)*
8(R7)*
9(P1)-Toughness
10(P2)*
11(R8)*
12(R9)-IC Slash
13(R10)*
14(R11)*
15(P3)-Power Attack
16(P4)*
17(P5)*
18(P6)-Combat Expertise
19(P7)*
20(R12)*


Ending with ranger gives me most bang for my buck skill point wise. It sucks waiting till 20 for tempest II, however my leveling plan includes my cleric which is being tr'd repeatedly. This life will be a wizard. So likely this ranger will do a ton of piking when lvling so im not really that worried about it. Anyone who has leveled heavy class splits such as this knows you are always waiting on something, this build will be no different.

Hit points

96 ranger
70 paly
8 monk
20 heroic vitality
10 aa favor
30 gfl
45 shroud
22 toughness feat
20 toughness item
180 con mod
50 toughness enhancements
______________
551

-5 lotd neg lvl
______________
546

+40 yugo pot
20 paly stance or rage
______________
606 basic buffed.


Armor Class

10 base
12 Dex mod
6 Wis mod
1 Halfling
1 Monk
3 Tempest II
1 Dodge
3 Aura
5 Protection
4 Dodge IR
1 Alchemical armor
3 Chattering ring
4 Insight
8 Aracers
______________
63 standing

5 Combat expertise
2 Paly Stance
______________
70 stanced

5 bark
1 shield spell
1 haste
2 recitation scroll
______________
79 self buffed

4 bard song
______________
83 raid buffed if bard

3 dos III
3 halfling buff
______________
89 max buffs.


+2 against favored enemies.

Saves

Fort/Reflex/Will

8/8/4 ranger
2/2/2 monk
5/2/2 paly
12/9/7 ability mod
3/3/3 IR
6/6/6 Divine Grace
1/1/1 alchemical
1/1/1 size
3/3/3 aura
-1/1/1 lotd
_____________
40/34/28

2/1/1 stance
4/4/4 gh
_____________
46/39/33 stanced/self buffed

I can up this by 2 with boi if needed i guess, but doesnt seem necessary in most current content.

Enhancements

Ranger

1~Sprint Boost I
6~FE Damage III
12~Dexterity III
6~Tempest II
3~FE Defense II
6~FE Attack II

34 points in ranger enhancements

Paladin

4~DoS I
3~Bulwark II
3~Resistance II
1~Courage I
1~Focus I
1~AC Boost I
6~Toughness III
1~Divine Righteousness
1~Divine Might I
1~Divine Sacrifice I
3~Extra Smite II
2~Charisma I
1~LoH I
1~Exhaulted Smite I


29 points in paly enhancements.

Halfling

6~Dex II
3~Toughness II

9 points in halfling enhancements.

72 Total spent. This leaves me 8 to play with. I may take ranger skill boost, halfling will save boost, HHC, or something else. Will play with it and see what I like.

Gear

Helm- Epic Helm of the Mroranon w/+1 wis
Necklace-Epic Hyena Claw necklace w/+1 con till I think of something better.
Cloak-Min II
Belt-Epic Belt of the Mroranon w/gfl
Ring 1-Shintao
Ring 2-Kyosho's ring w/+2 str
Gloves-Epic Spectral Gloves w/+1 dex
Boots-Striding/madstone/anchoring/greeves
Bracers-Epic Bracers of Deftness w/+6 cha
Armor-IR
Goggles-Mentau
Trinket-LOTD
Weapons- Lit II Khop w/+4 insight and +2 dex/Min II Khop with +4 insight and +2 con.

Several ways to go here. I may go a different route, but this stat set up is more or less my goal. Will prolly change however as most gear sets remain dynamic with upcoming mods.

To Hit

19 BaB
5 Weapon
11 str mod
4 Epic spectral gloves
1 lotd
__________
40

-1 lotd neg lvl
-4 twf
-5 PA
__________
+30

+2 Divine Favor (short duration with only 7 levels, but doable )
2 Against Favored enemies (with 3 i will take the most common hard to hit for my play)
4 Greater Herosim
1 Rage
1 Rams Might
1 Yugo Pot
1 Madstone (if needed)
1 Haste
1 Divine Power
___________
44 self buffed with PA first swing

+3 Full bard
+2 Shintao set (add necklace if needed)
___________
49 raid buffed.

Obviously this will vary depending on group, but traditionally the hardest thing to hit in my regular raiding is Djinns in epic von 6. We have a bard 85% of the time in this raid, not always pure bard with maxed songs, but hey its nice to dream. I can turn PA off if it came down to it.

+ to Damage

5 GS khopesh
11 str mod
5 PA
1 Lotd (Litany adds 1 or 2? Rep to the first correct answer )
__________
22

9 fe
3 rams might
2 Divine Might
2 Divine favor
1 Yugo Pot
1 rage
1 madstone (if needed)
___________
41 self buffed vs fe.

UMD

11 ranks
8 cha
5 gloves
6 shroud item
2 hogf
___________
32

4 gh
___________
36 self buffed with item swaps. Can hit 39 with epic top hat.



Well that was long winded. Please point out any mistakes I made or things I may have overlooked. I welcome suggestions to fine tune this as well, though unless I sorely miscalculated something this is very close to what the final build will look like.

Currently the most difficult decisions I am having is gear choices (which can be made later) and middle life. I have a few choices as I see it. Cleric for 1 extra turn, barb for a few extra hp, fighter for +1 to hit, monk for +1 damage, or paly for +5% healing. Im really not sure which way to go with this, and this decision needs to be made sooner

[stormarcher]

Not to sure here but I think pally aura is +5 you have it listed as + 3

[Quikster]

Not to sure here but I think pally aura is +5 you have it listed as + 3

Paly aura is variable from 1-6 depending on enhancements.

[stormarcher]

cool thing is you know with the right pally you might get an extra +3 Ac

[Quikster]

cool thing is you know with the right pally you might get an extra +3 Ac

Correct. I believe thats factored in there somewheres

[Mangloid]

Rachna posted a similar build back in November. Hers is a WF 12 ranger/6 pally/ 2 monk

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=213144

It might give you a few extra ideas. As usual, your build looks pretty solid and well thought out.

[Quikster]

Rachna posted a similar build back in November. Hers is a WF 12 ranger/6 pally/ 2 monk

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=213144

It might give you a few extra ideas. As usual, your build looks pretty solid and well thought out.

Yeah ive been through that thread a few times. Thx for the link.

[maddmatt70]

You bored man? This build is not what currently DDO is about in any form that I can tell. It was a nice build from the old mod7 era. Not trying to be super harsh just hey find something else fun to make that you will not end up lring when you hit level 20.

[Quikster]

You bored man? This build is not what currently DDO is about in any form that I can tell. It was a nice build from the old mod7 era. Not trying to be super harsh just hey find something else fun to make that you will not end up lring when you hit level 20.

Honestly I think me and you play the game much much different. This is evidenced from many many posts you have made basically calling anything that isnt maxing dps gimp. To each his own, however I dont subscribe to that theory. Tell me would a ranger with max str/con dump everything else be better?

[maddmatt70]

Honestly I think me and you play the game much much different. This is evidenced from many many posts you have made basically calling anything that isnt maxing dps gimp. To each his own, however I dont subscribe to that theory. Tell me would a ranger with max str/con dump everything else be better?

The sad truth is melee rangers right now are in sorry shape in my opinion. I would not make one at all. I have no idea how I would make a melee ranger with what we have currently in game. 12 ranger does seem like a better cut off point then it was previously so would probably start with that but then I would go a different direction self healer/healing amp character with strength based.

When the heck do you use hate tanking right now in game on a dex based character is a vaild question? I have always applauded the hate tanking concept especially vs. intimidate which I find at its core is boring no skill weaksauce. Lets talk aboout your character though you hit like a wet noodle in normal questing have crud for damage reduction so your capabilities vs. the dq and others as a hate tank is meh. This is one of those characters that takes longer to do a quest at the end game, the value is questionable and the build itself is a fickle multi-class. Leveling up is actually a chore on these guys too because it takes forever and a day to complete quests better to just drink some healing pots and kill mobs quicker anyday.

[DropList]

Halfling ranger tank...who would have thought. It is solid ..for sure. I had been tossing the idea of a thenn similar build with pally...but was worried about hp. It looks like you have a solid plan.

[Quikster]

The sad truth is melee rangers right now are in sorry shape in my opinion. I would not make one at all. I have no idea how I would make a melee ranger with what we have currently in game. 12 ranger does seem like a better cut off point then it was previously so would probably start with that but then I would go a different direction self healer/healing amp character with strength based.

When the heck do you use hate tanking right now in game on a dex based character is a vaild question? I have always applauded the hate tanking concept especially vs. intimidate which I find at its core is boring no skill weaksauce. Lets talk aboout your character though you hit like a wet noodle in normal questing have crud for damage reduction so your capabilities vs. the dq and others as a hate tank is meh. This is one of those characters that takes longer to do a quest at the end game, the value is questionable and the build itself is a fickle multi-class. Leveling up is actually a chore on these guys too because it takes forever and a day to complete quests better to just drink some healing pots and kill mobs quicker anyday.

Wont tank epic liliat. Thats obvious. If you dont think it can hold agro in other raids I guess your understanding of the game is far short of my expectations.


Normal questing? What do I really need to hit so hard in normal questing? Lol.

Questing at end game. Why is it you and others come to these forums and tout about how difficult end game content is, and if someone has a build that does less dps then max it takes so much longer and costs so many resources. This line of propaganda is very different then my experience of the game. In the game I play, certain players get things done fast, and certain players dont. So long as build basics are in place, it becomes much less about the build then the pace. This build will hit fine vs non favored enemys. Will it be max? No of course not. It will still have high self buffable ac and a slightly lower than norm max buff for good ac builds. I'll easily be able to hit 40 str and have 75+ ac. Thats very decent vs trash for non favored enemies. Against fe the damage will be solid. Still not max but very respectable.


Leveling up? Really? Leveling up is nothing.

[Tobril]

Cleric for 1 extra turn, barb for a few extra hp, fighter for +1 to hit, monk for +1 damage, or paly for +5% healing. Im really not sure which way to go with this, and this decision needs to be made sooner

Turns - You'll already have a lot for divine might.
Barb - Extra hit points are supposedly broken ATM.
Fighter - 2nd best choice, IMO, maybe 1st as to-hit needs go up, epic big top "lady" has a pretty high AC
Monk - Damage good, (hulk smash!) probably the most useful choice for hate-tanking.
Paladin - Do you really need the extra amp with the decent AC/saves?

I'm thinking monk for this dude, with fighter a close second.

[maddmatt70]

Wont tank epic liliat. Thats obvious. If you dont think it can hold agro in other raids I guess your understanding of the game is far short of my expectations.


Normal questing? What do I really need to hit so hard in normal questing? Lol.

Questing at end game. Why is it you and others come to these forums and tout about how difficult end game content is, and if someone has a build that does less dps then max it takes so much longer and costs so many resources. This line of propaganda is very different then my experience of the game. In the game I play, certain players get things done fast, and certain players dont. So long as build basics are in place, it becomes much less about the build then the pace. This build will hit fine vs non favored enemys. Will it be max? No of course not. It will still have high self buffable ac and a slightly lower than norm max buff for good ac builds. I'll easily be able to hit 40 str and have 75+ ac. Thats very decent vs trash for non favored enemies. Against fe the damage will be solid. Still not max but very respectable.


Leveling up? Really? Leveling up is nothing.

Haha never said end game was difficult what I have maintained is if you play less optimum chars end game takes longer and since this game is about efficiency then builds like this are meh. I literally know almost no one on khyber that has this kind of build and is active in playing that character. If you get outkilled 20 million to 1 and do the dps of a rusty blah and find that fun than that is your business. I will not be looking forward to running with a character like this no matter whether I play a melee, ranged, caster, or healer.

[Quikster]

Turns - You'll already have a lot for divine might.
Barb - Extra hit points are supposedly broken ATM.
Fighter - 2nd best choice, IMO, maybe 1st as to-hit needs go up, epic big top "lady" has a pretty high AC
Monk - Damage good, (hulk smash!) probably the most useful choice for hate-tanking.
Paladin - Do you really need the extra amp with the decent AC/saves?

I'm thinking monk for this dude, with fighter a close second.

This was kinda my line of thought so far, I wanted to point out all the past lives that were useful and see what others thought. Thanks for the feedback.

[sigtrent]

I'm wondering if you can effectively hold agro with this guy.

You are relying on some short and shallow boosts for some of your DPS, and your STR is a bit low to start with. Also you are looking at only one way to amplify agro generation that has a pretty short duration (although I've not actually used it myself so its utility is an open question.)

Against a heavy hitter or someone that has some natural hate generation going on I'd suspect you would not be able to keep agro. I think the best hate tanks are the defender of Siberys builds which are running 100-300% hate generation and throwing big hairy smites.

Overall I think its a cool build, a nice balance of offense and defense but I'd call it more a skirmisher than a dedicated hate tank. Still, I'm just going on the numbers, I've never had an actual hate tank, only watched a few at work.

[Quikster]

I'm wondering if you can effectively hold agro with this guy.

You are relying on some short and shallow boosts for some of your DPS, and your STR is a bit low to start with. Also you are looking at only one way to amplify agro generation that has a pretty short duration (although I've not actually used it myself so its utility is an open question.)

Against a heavy hitter or someone that has some natural hate generation going on I'd suspect you would not be able to keep agro. I think the best hate tanks are the defender of Siberys builds which are running 100-300% hate generation and throwing big hairy smites.

Overall I think its a cool build, a nice balance of offense and defense but I'd call it more a skirmisher than a dedicated hate tank. Still, I'm just going on the numbers, I've never had an actual hate tank, only watched a few at work.

Should be fine. I've had some freinds run tests on builds similar and it was not an issue. One test included using holysword longswords as I was considering going 3 monk and using longswords.

The hate clickie will need to be used wisely if Im going to use dm I as well, simply because of limited uses per rest.

Honestly I can hold agro with my fighter most of the time with lower dps and similar hate. Most anytime I would actually need to hate tank it will be against favored enemies so dps out put should be fine.

[Quikster]

Haha never said end game was difficult what I have maintained is if you play less optimum chars end game takes longer and since this game is about efficiency then builds like this are meh. I literally know almost no one on khyber that has this kind of build and is active in playing that character. If you get outkilled 20 million to 1 and do the dps of a rusty blah and find that fun than that is your business. I will not be looking forward to running with a character like this no matter whether I play a melee, ranged, caster, or healer.

Really, go away. You dont know what you are talking about. You have a very limited view of the game. Im sure your a great player, but your ignorance is very off putting.

[Tobril]

One test included using holysword longswords as I was considering going 3 monk and using longswords.

NooooOOOOooooOOoooOoooo!!!!

I'm the only fleshie on Sarlona so far with WSS...if I'm not a unique and beautiful snowflake I'll have to go back to turning tricks to meet repair bills...

[edaciousx]

NooooOOOOooooOOoooOoooo!!!!

I'm the only fleshie on Sarlona so far with WSS...if I'm not a unique and beautiful snowflake I'll have to go back to turning tricks to meet repair bills...

No you're not.