Level 20 Halfling Rogue

[TheArchitect-]

Looking for thoughts/improvements on this rogue build.
Mainly:

• Skill point placement
• Enhancement paths
• Feat advantages/disadvantages

MODIFIED VERSION

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
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JohnnyBravo 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Halfling Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 23
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            18                    30
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         16                    18
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               9                    34
Bluff                 0                    10
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy             0                    24
Disable Device        8                    30
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  0                     7
Hide                  9                    46
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  6                    23
Listen                4                    26
Move Silently         9                    44
Open Lock             9                    34
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     5
Search                8                    28
Spot                  4                    24
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                9                    21
Use Magic Device      4                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

[TheArchitect-]

no love

[sigtrent]

I might not go quite so much dex but it's a reasonable choice, same for Int. Con is perhaps too low. I'm finding I like a minimum 12 on most of my characters now days and try for 14 whenever I can, even on the elves.

Skills are fine, hard to go wrong on a pure rogue with 16int, its like fishing with explosives.

Feats are spot on, dodge may be something of a waste but its not a waste of a feat by any means.

Your enhancements are a bit min max for my tastes and you didn't take assassin. I can see no good reason not to take it if your dumping 8pts on things like Cunning/Guile 4 which gives you +2 to attack and damage, and 6pts on Dex 3. I'd rather have the 6d6 sneak attack and other goodies from Assassin any day.

Also there is a better capstone now, although its not in the builder or is bugged.

[Samwiser77]

You definitely need more con. At least 12, if not 14. Take it from int and cha. You can get all the traps and skills you need with a 12 or 14 int. Also, see if you can find more points into str, it will increase your damage -- which is helpful when you don't have the benefit of sneak attack. The cha is for UMD? I think you would be better off with more hit points.

Feats: I would consider taking improved evasion sooner (you will have nasty saves against traps), and swapping oversized two weapon fighting for Power Attack (if you decide to raise str or get a tome). The benefit of oversized TWF is minimal compared to the ability to turn on that extra damage. I also don't think you need dodge, consider taking Improved Critical: Piercing instead.

Redo your enhancements to take assassin (or whatever prestige line floats your boat) and the two tiers in racial toughness for the extra hitpoints. The new capstone is also better than cheat death.

Skills are cool. Especially liked that you maxed out diplomacy.

[unbongwah]

I would go base stats 12 / 18 / 14 / 14 / 8 / 8 with the last 4 pts put into either STR or CON - extra (non-SA) DPS or HPs, take your pick. I consider putting more than 6 pts into INT overkill on any non-wizard; you can drop Listen and +1 to INT skills and Assassinate DC isn't worth the 4 pts IMHO. Likewise, I usually dump-stat WIS & CHA on pure rogues; the boost to Will saves and/or skills usually aren't worth the points.

I don't see Power Attack or Improved Crit; those are definitely more important than OTWF and Dodge. Also, I don't see a PrE chosen; you definitely want one. On a pure halfling rogue I would go Assassin, but it's your call which you like best.

Otherwise it's a pretty solid build; just needs a little tweaking to reach its full potential.

EDIT: oh, for alignment, I would stick with True Neutral.

[TheArchitect-]

What about items that would boost me to 14 CON? I'm currently lv7 with this character, from starting at 4. If the CON is that critical, its not too late to drop the 3 levels and start anew. But if it's not that critical, i'd rather not have too.

I completely missed Power Attack, and i debated taking one of the Improved Criticals. I will not take OTWF and take the power attack instead, and i will consider the Dodge/Improved Critical swap too.

I will swap my Lv10 and Lv16 feats, giving Improved Evasion at lv10 instead of at 16.

I'll also take Assassin, dropping from Guile/Cunning.

[unbongwah]

Your HPs are low - really low. While I won't go so far as to say you need to reroll or LR just to bump up your CON, you're playing a low-HP class which doesn't get any Toughness enhs, so you're really gonna have to work to make up the difference thru items etc. The goal is not final CON of 14; that's just the minimum base CON you should shoot for, IMHO.

You want Improved Crit or you want to stick with keen (& later Min2) weapons. That's important to any DPS build, unless maybe it's a build which focuses solely on 100% fort enemies. Personally, I'd rather take the feat: gives you more options when it comes to weapons.

[TheArchitect-]

Is there a way to redo my base stats without having to start the character over?


EDIT: Lesser Reincarnation looks like it will work for that.

Here is a modified version, taking into account the advice given thus far. My HP has gone up by about 50. I also took Power Attack earlier, and bumped the other feats all down by 1. Also, because the other capstone is not able to be selected in this builder, imagine that i am taking the new one instead of the old

[unbongwah]

I (still) wouldn't bother with more than INT 14. You don't need Listen and putting the extra pts into CON or maybe STR makes more sense, IMHO.

You can't take a +2 Supreme tome until lvl 7. Or, if you've already taken it before LRing, you'll get +1 at lvl 3 and the other +1 at lvl 7. In your case, the only thing this affects is your skill points.

I would take your feats in a slightly different order: TWF (1), Finesse (3), Toughness (6), ITWF (9), Imp Crit Pierce (12), GTWF (15), PA (18). I definitely like taking Imp Crit ASAP.

I'd also slightly tweak your enhs: you don't have your 2nd racial Toughness and I think Deadly Shadow is a much better capstone than Cheat Death. I don't see any need for the Disable enhs, unless they meet a pre-req I'm not aware of.

[TheArchitect-]

I (still) wouldn't bother with more than INT 14. You don't need Listen and putting the extra pts into CON or maybe STR makes more sense, IMHO.

You can't take a +2 Supreme tome until lvl 7. Or, if you've already taken it before LRing, you'll get +1 at lvl 3 and the other +1 at lvl 7. In your case, the only thing this affects is your skill points.

I would take your feats in a slightly different order: TWF (1), Finesse (3), Toughness (6), ITWF (9), Imp Crit Pierce (12), GTWF (15), PA (18). I definitely like taking Imp Crit ASAP.

I'd also slightly tweak your enhs: you don't have your 2nd racial Toughness and I think Deadly Shadow is a much better capstone than Cheat Death. I don't see any need for the Disable enhs, unless they meet a pre-req I'm not aware of.

Having played with the builder a bit, the extra 2 points in INT only really gave a bump to my Heal and Listen, and with a good Spot, i agree Listen isn't really needed. Dropping those extra 2 points into CON gives me another 20hp and a +4 mod, leaving STR at a +2 mod. If i put them into STR, they both end up with a +3 mod. i'm debating taking the extra CON, or the extra STR.

I didn't even think about the extra points i would get for just listing the +2 Supreme at the beginning, so i moved that back to Lv7 for a more accurate point dispersal.

Like i said about the capstone, Deadly Shadow is not listed in the builder, so i have Cheat Death there as a marker, but will be taking DS.

Disable Device was only taken because i had the extra points. I dropped DisDevII and took Racial Toughness II instead. I also swapped Power Attack and Improved Crit