What is monk you ask?

[Maegin]

I've been playing monk a lot in my years of d&d, and now here on DDO. I hear a lot about people praising and bashing the class, being confused and finding clarity about it all, and others learning more about their own playstyle by what they don't like, or find what they are missing that the monk doesn't provide and discovers what they do like and then proceed to play a class that flexes that intent (I.e. wanting a sick dpser, only to find out that it can't dps like a barb's full potential [speaking in generalities of course] and switch to playing a barb, then finally being happy).

I came across a thread, that I've seen over and over again, where people discover they are done discovering or find what they really want to do in the game, then choose to specialize in the iconic role, by median of monk. I wanted to share a snip of that thread that I think some people should read, to maybe better get an understanding of what it means to play monk, instead of trying to compare it by association.

Yes actually, I have played a monk all the way to level 20. I played my monk through every raid in game and even in epic content as well. What I listed are my impressions of the class in the 3 roles I have had mine in. During my several months as a monk in DDO I have built a dark path pure dps with no ac and all strength type, lesser reincarnated that into an all AC dex and wisdom build, and then lesser reincarnated that into a balanced build of both ac and dps. I spent time and effort gearing out each incarnation for each of the three roles I played my monk in. I then sat and watched multiple other classes outperform me in both aspects of the game for each of those roles. I watched capped barbarians run around with an epic sos critting for 700's every few seconds, I also watched intimitank paladins and fighters take no damage on raid bosses where as I could not come close to having decent AC vs raid trash mobs. They did this while making very few sacrifices for these abilities as well. Both sides outperformed the monk class with twice the hp as well as more damage or more ac, for equal or less effort then what the monk needs to put in, all while spending less action points and resources to do it.

This conclusion wasn't due to a lack of research either, I spent months on the forums reading and searching out different types of builds that could possibly do something useful with the class, I would acquire the gear all of the other forum posters would use, building for the stats and abilities other players recommended. Please don't assume this is a lack of game mechanics knowledge, exaggeration, or other fluff. I've been playing D&D since 2nd edition, and I have DM'ed 3rd edition for 10+ years. I know what class balance is when I see it, and I just don't see it here. Not to bring casters into the discussion but I also don't feel wizards and sorcerers are balanced either. Some classes have incredible major advantages over others in DDO without any reasonable or comparable disadvantages to make up for it.

If you don't believe I've done all of this with a monk, go myddo my character Invalid on Cannith. I worked very hard trying to make something decent of the monk class or find some aspect in which it performed well in endgame content.

When that failed I went and true reincarnated my monk into a cleric.

Hm... interesting.

Well, thats definately good food for thougth. I'm glad to see someones point of view from this angle. I too feel there is some truth behinde it all. But monks, like my favorite class bard, are just that. Support. The days of pajama wearing super ac guys out-doing the fighters and paladins with full plate and tower shield are gone when the ranger/monk splash came into full power, showing how deadly/not-right it was. Monks, having to rely on mobility, are just that. Sure they get AC, but nothing thats ment to stand there and take hits, thats the fighter and paladins job/role. Monks, like bards, do best when setting things up for the kill, i.e. stunning fist/light water finisher/ etc, for the classes that have a sole purpose to do so, i.e. your barbs and dpsers. Sure they can hold their own to an extent, but wearing no armor, really stresses being mobile. Sure, your toons AC on his character sheet reads 68, but thats not to say you can't, oh idk, be flanking or not have aggro to have to worry about it. (easier said than done, but look at it, the whole class is full of options for setting things up, or resist being set up)

To the guy defending the monk, I say your doing it wrong. You cannot compare, as sel has discovered, monk to another class since its apples to oranges. Monk's arnt barbarians. Monk's arn't ac fighters/pallys. Monk's arnt super nuke damage (hence tod timer), monk's arn't bards (hence bonuses to attack sure, but bards are wanted for bonuses to damage), Monk's arn't rogues (all fancy/mobile like a rogue, but can't replace him) etc. etc. etc. Monk's are monk's (it its most redundant state). Now you know what monks arn't, so now you figure out what monks are. Monk's, imho, can in one way be defined as a 'specialist- specializing in advantage by situation, not direct action. Build accordingly.

My main point was to show the age old debate on how people get frusterated trying to find a niche' with monk, and can't, by example that it's not ment to relpace what is already in place, only ment to augment and offer a different solution. Now, how you choose to do that, is entirely up to the player/build. To you, you know what monk isn't, now express what it is by what the dev's have givin us. It's not like its impossible to do anything in the game with monk, because people have already proven you can (i.e. dps epic v, tank mobs, be a tactition, etc. etc. etc) it's what you want monk to do for you. If you wish to be more focused and better on a clear goal of yours, play a class thats desiged to be more clear and focused for that specific role. Each opinon valid, as it reflects what you want it to be/achive. Now that's what it is, imho, to be monk.

Thought I'd share some philosophy.

[Thechemicals]

In a world where dps belongs to all classess, the monk is just another pawn.

[Maegin]

In a world where dps belongs to all classess, the monk is just another pawn.

Thats true. Once you get over this concept, time to ask yourself how you want to, and/or how quickly you want to achieve this. If monk isn't fast enough for you, then thats just it, monk isn't for you.

[Peo]

The real reason to like a monk is that the harmonious path water finisher give a -25% reduction in sp costs.

So it (might, if it stacks) make a good splash for spellsinger bards for a save boost, evasion, and even more sp cost reduction.

[Maegin]

The point of the thread was to explain what the monk is by what you personally define it as, since its versatile by nature, and for people to not get muddled trying to figure out how its better/worse, but how it can perform for you. It's an internal thing, past game mechanics. Like ghoste's shadow mage concept. Non optimal on paper/characer sheet, but perfoms with deadly precision as reflected by the player behinde it. A universal truth, learned by playing a monk. Not something you can jest read and emulate, but the higher forms of character expression or by playing the game and the wisdom that follows.

[FuzzyDuck81]

The real reason to like a monk is that the harmonious path water finisher give a -25% reduction in sp costs.

So it (might, if it stacks) make a good splash for spellsinger bards for a save boost, evasion, and even more sp cost reduction.

They do stack, so having a spellsinger plus a light side monk can make raids for example much cheaper on resources - but a single character can never have both classes, as monks can only ever be lawful and bards can never be lawful

[AylinIsAwesome]

The real reason to like a monk is that the harmonious path water finisher give a -25% reduction in sp costs.

So it (might, if it stacks) make a good splash for spellsinger bards for a save boost, evasion, and even more sp cost reduction.

Along the same lines, I think a Barbarian/Paladin would be awesome.