Balance Half-Orc Please

[Goldeneye]

Please please balance half-orc.
I'm worried that every melee will TR into Half-Orc because they aren't properly balanced vs. the other races.

I don't want another situation such as when FvS came out. Thousands of clerics went *sigh, I wish I was a favored soul*

[uhgungawa]

Please please balance half-orc.
I'm worried that every melee will TR into Half-Orc because they aren't properly balanced vs. the other races.

I don't want another situation such as when FvS came out. Thousands of clerics went *sigh, I wish I was a favored soul*

Just make the female orcs really REALLY ugly. That'll stop half of the guys from making them

[Consumer]

+2 starter str
+2 str from enhancements
+3 PA
extra damage with two handers
rage enhancements for barbs

Should do it nicely for me.

[Chai]

There are still plenty of clerics.

Half orc will likely be balanced. The other two really good melee races are dwarf and warforged.

Half orc will get 4 more str (2 for being able to start at max 20 and 2 for enhancing racial) This is a 2 mod. Dwarfs can get a 2 to hit and 2 to damage with axes and also can enhance tactics. Warforge get the PA enhance and the (still broke) 2hf advantage.

I think there will be a high gravitation to it in the beginning, but what class or race ever came out that people didnt immediately gravitate to?

[Asketes]

Please please balance half-orc.
I'm worried that every melee will TR into Half-Orc because they aren't properly balanced vs. the other races.

I don't want another situation such as when FvS came out. Thousands of clerics went *sigh, I wish I was a favored soul*

if you weren't my friend i'd -1 you just b/c of the whine factor jk.

You should know better Mr. Krythan.


BUTI love you bra, so i'll just say what i think:

Pretty sure the half-orc will not be nearly as *combat* oriented as the WF will be.

They'll have the strength and 100% healing amp

but i'm pretty sure they won't have the combat tactics and power attack bonuses.

If they did, EVERYONE would be half-orc.


so you'll have to decide:

warforged
lower healing and higher dps (which is funny BECAUSE the warforged +3 to power attack outdoes the +4 strength you'll get from half-orc (+2 base, +2 racial enhancement = +2 damage)

OR

half orc
better healing and lower dps

[Tobril]

Just make sure you work on legs AND upper body.

Doing so will keep you balanced so your massive torso doesn't cause you to tip over at inopportune moments.

[Thrudh]

What negatives do they get?

-2 DEX would a decent balance against the +2 STR and Strength enhancements... That would limit them to mostly THF..

[Goldeneye]

WF:

• PA: +3 Dam, -3 to-hit
• Tactics: +3 (insanely expensive.. 12 AP?)
• 50% Healing

Half-orc

• +4 STR:
• +2 Dam, +2 to-hit, +2 Combat DC's
• 100% Healing

(not to mention epic marilith chain, and many other benefits of not being WF)

Right now, I'd say that the Half-Orc has the overall lead. Any other combat related enhancements for the half-orc is going to make them the ultimate "no one else will ever roll a fighter or barbarian that isn't a half-orc".

I'm afraid Turbine might see it as: $$$ TR sales go up!

[TheMeanDM]

Well, duh!

Half Orcs excel (usually) at combat.

+2 Str
-2 Int
-2 Cha

Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.

They were pretty balanced in DnD.

Sure, they're great fighters....they kill stuff good.

What would they be good at, in DDO?

Barbarian
Fighter
Cleric (battle)
Rogue (assassination)
Ranger


What would they not be good at?
Wizard
Sorcerer
Favored Soul
Bard

They *might* be able to pull off a Paladin, since they wouldn't necessarily need Dex.

They also might do well as a Monk, since Dex and Wis would be ok to add to.

But really, they would be great combat characters...which is what they'd be for.


My thoughts on the race enhancements started off with:

Half-orc Versatility I/II: Activate this ability to receive a +2/+3 Action Boost bonus to skills, damage, attack rolls, saves, or armor class for 20 seconds.

Racial Toughness I/II/III
Grants you 10 additional hit points if you have the Toughness feat.
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 7 action points
Requires All of: Toughness

Half-orc Dwarven Hatred I/II/III
Grants an additional +1/+2/+3 attack bonus when attacking Dwarves.
Cost: 1 action point

Half-orc Elven Hatred I/II/III
Grants an additional +1/+2/+3 attack bonus when attacking Elves.
Cost: 1 action point

Half-orc Two-handed Brute: I/II/III
You gain an additional +1/+2/+3 bonus to damage rolls when using a Great-axe, Great-sword, Falchion, Quarterstaff, or Great-club

Half-orc Strength: I, II, III
You gain +1 to your Strength score.



Just some ideas

[kingfisher]

What negatives do they get?

-2 DEX would a decent balance against the +2 STR and Strength enhancements... That would limit them to mostly THF..

or a deeper degative to cha like -4 with also a -2 int. or something else idc as long as there is a penalty. i dont think its bad if every barb tr's into a half orc, i just dont want to see every melee tr into one.

of course at first turbine is gonna limit this a bit themselves, by making them store-only or gving them as a 3k favor reward.

[Vordax]

or a deeper degative to cha like -4 with also a -2 int. or something else idc as long as there is a penalty. i dont think its bad if every barb tr's into a half orc, i just dont want to see every melee tr into one.

of course at first turbine is gonna limit this a bit themselves, by making them store-only or gving them as a 3k favor reward.

Maybe they will balance it using enhancements. Orc strength I would be +1 str -1 int and/or cha.

Vordax

[Goldeneye]

or a deeper negative to cha like -4 with also a -2 int. or something else idc as long as there is a penalty. i dont think its bad if every barb tr's into a half orc, i just dont want to see every melee tr into one.

Most of the people going to Half-orc are going to have 34/36 point builds. Stat penalties have to be significantly bad to outweight the half-orc if the Devs don't balance it properly.

-4 CHA, -2 INT isn't going to stop every other melee turning into a half-orc

of course at first turbine is gonna limit this a bit themselves, by making them store-only or gving them as a 3k favor reward.

That only hurts the new players. Most vets won't have an issue grinding the favor, or dishing out the money - look at favored souls.

[Emili]

Half-Orc

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.

• A half-orc’s starting Intelligence score is always at least 3. If this adjustment would lower the character’s score to 1 or 2, his score is nevertheless 3.
  
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
• Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.
• Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass half-orc’s barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.

Combat
Orcs are proficient with all simple weapons, preferring those that cause the most damage in the least time. Many orcs who take up the warrior or fighter class also gain proficiency with the falchion or the greataxe as a martial weapon. They enjoy attacking from concealment and setting ambushes, and they obey the rules of war (such as honoring a truce) only as long as it is convenient for them.

Light Sensitivity (Ex)
Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

Orcs As Characters
Orc Traits (Ex)
Orcs possess the following racial traits.


+4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.

• An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Light Sensitivity: Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Orc. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Undercommon.
• Favored Class: Barbarian.

Those are the DnD checks and balances to race... whatever DDO may be will percieve differently... most likely geared towards the Barbarian like enhancements rather than fighters possibly a mix?

As it stands Turbine best to not over-power this as a melee class too much or else te other races fall short... currently the upper bracket DPS is in WF and Halfling hands actually ... followed slightly behind by Human for one thing - the extra feat, Khopesh and a healing amp. Dwarf and elf are mrore bound by weapons which slightly are behind the diffences od Khopesh and eSoS. i.e. a Human spec'd Khopesh or eSoS usually beats a dwarf with a khopesh on average pace.

What would be out of balnace is if the Barbarian Favored racial enhancements coupled enough and infringed upon fighter class enhancements to warrent a sea of half-orcs fighters, pallys and rangers outside the barbarian preference.

I for one have been quite adamant in the past about favored class being more attuned with not so entralling but steering towards a favored class - as in DnD - It should not be an epitome of the class as in DnD any race in a given class is not 10-15% better in that class much more not 20% as we have here in DDO. DDO enhancements take away variety and Idea of character builds much more than PnP.

[Impaqt]

WF:

• PA: +3 Dam, -3 to-hit
• Tactics: +3 (insanely expensive.. 12 AP?)
• 50% Healing

you forgot a few WF benefits....

Immune to Hold
Immune to Fatigue
Immune to Poison
Immune to Disease

Half-orc

• +4 STR:
• +2 Dam, +2 to-hit, +2 Combat DC's
• 100% Healing

(not to mention epic marilith chain, and many other benefits of not being WF)

Right now, I'd say that the Half-Orc has the overall lead. Any other combat related enhancements for the half-orc is going to make them the ultimate "no one else will ever roll a fighter or barbarian that isn't a half-orc".

I'm afraid Turbine might see it as: $$$ TR sales go up!

Did Eladrn make a Post about Half-Orc Abilitiles and Enahncments I missed? Or are you realy basing all this on speculation?

[Goldeneye]

Nope. No news on Half-Orc enhancements.
General pnp is +2 STR, -2 INT, -2 CHA.
Speculation says +2 STR from AP

+4 STR = +2 Dam, +2 To-Hit, +2 Combat DC's

[Bladedge]

Did Eladrn make a Post about Half-Orc Abilitiles and Enahncments I missed? Or are you realy basing all this on speculation?

Just Speculation, forums would of been busy if they announce Half-Orc abilities and enhancements.


Is 50% healing at end game really that bad these days? Been TR my WF chars for last few months and not been raiding much.

[Goldeneye]

Warforged w/ items can make do with 50% healing amp...

However 100% Healing amp is still preferable.
Goes to show the lengths that people go to for that extra +3 damage.

[Asketes]

Did Eladrn make a Post about Half-Orc Abilitiles and Enahncments I missed? Or are you realy basing all this on speculation?

we're arguing on speculation, get in while you can!

[wemery73]

DON'T PRE-NERF HALF ORCS

that is all

[Comfortably]

I like how you don't list all the WF immunities. Someone doesn't like Half-Orcs. ;P