Half-A-Bard

[RoelHeeswijk]

OK, I know this kinda stinks in raids, but with the last 4 updates having epic quests without raids, I'm getting a different view of "end game" then I had before. It's suddenly all about 6man parties, not 12man, and the bards as they are now might be ill-prepared for that.
With a party of 6, a bard is still nice enough to have*. But unlike in raids, one that melees well himself is worth missing the last 2 points on his songs* (compared to a 15/3/2).

So I want to try 8 Bard and 12 DPS class. What melee class/classes would be best for that?

Viable might be:
-WF 12 Kensai II;
-WF 10 Kensai / 2 Rogue
-WF 6 Kensai / 6 Assassin
-Dwarf 2 Fighter / 10 Assassin
-WF 11 Ranger / 1 Fighter
-Dwarf 12 Tempest II

Dismissed:
- WF 9 Barbarian / 2 Rogue / 1 Bard
- WF 9 Barbarian / 3 Rogue
- WF 11 Tempest / 1 Fighter
- WF 12 Tempest II

Did some 'DPS' comparing.
I'm not familiar with common DPS notations, so I used my own system (damage per swing against no AC). For reference, a Monster build (without bard songs, with GH) would get something like 148 DPS, a 15/3/2 bard gets 100 (and a THF 20bard about 87)

I assumed 20% fort, and against a non-fort you get 50% sneak attacks(correct?) in.
A Kensai II has his power surge running 80% of the time (7x 1 minute), but during that time I subtracted 1.33% for having to activate it every minute.
The brackets on ranger stats stand for their scores against favored enemies.
4spr means that this build has spring attack, which counters the -4 on attack while moving
Not including all buffs/gear.

WF 12 Kensai II:
661 HP  #  133.5 DPS    #  +41 to hit    #  45.5 AC   #  32.5

WF 10 Kensai / 2 Rogue:
643 HP  #  124.4 DPS    #  +38.5 to hit  #  46 AC     #  Evasion: 34

WF 6 Kensai / 6 Assassin:
573 HP  #  130.0 DPS    #  +38 to hit    #  46 AC     #  Evasion: 35    #  Poison thing

Dwarf 10 Rogue / 2 Fighter / 8 Bard
needs crunching

WF 11 Ranger / 1 Fighter: 
597 HP  #  (131.4)106.9 #  (38)+37       #  (50)47 AC #  Evasion: 35+2  #  Bow Feats, resist(30), barkskin +4

@Dwarf@ 12 Tempest II:
541 HP  #  (141.4)117.4 # (40)+38 !4spr! #  (54)51 AC #  Evasion: 40+1  #  Bow Feats, resist(30), barkskin +5
            @I'm not sure how just the WF immunity/reconstructability compares against the healing penalty@

*At least, if my calculations are not WAY off.

Assume a bardless 5man party looking for another DPS.
Say there's a pure caster, a pure healer, two TWF's and a 2HF in there so far.

counting the +6/+5 song as +7 damage(trading to-hit and damage 1-on-1 but counting GH) would add some 44 DPS to the party. In addition to what you bring yourself. For say the kensai/assassin, that would be 130+44=174; you'd leave another melee (148) far behind.
A 15/3/2's +8/+7 song, that I'll count as +11, would add 69 DPS (25 more) DPS to his personal 100 for a total of 169.

(But when the party size increases to 12 the purer bard would obviously win out).

To be honest, after doing all the crunching, these numbers seem less spectacular than I expected, so probably only the strongest of these ideas will be able to compete with a 15/3/2 in terms of usefulness. They miss spells but all have higher survivability and things like poison or ranger spells, depending on the build.

[Partydeluxe]

I guess the question is, like we discussed earlier, wether or not you are a bard.

A melee-specialized bard such as this one needs to achieve pretty impressive dps-figures to be viable. The 15/2/3 and 16/2/2 bard formats typically achieve around 70-80% percent of the dps of a regular dps-toon. If this build can achieve something like 90% that would actually be worth considering. The number-crunching here is almost impossible though, because your lack of 3 damage per hit in your songs is what you have to make up for in your personal dps..

This build:
Supposedly superior dps, would have to make a number-crunching comparison for that..
A chance at stunning enemies, although not nearly as good as barbs
One tough mofo of a bard (you are better at the hp-calcs than i am so go ahead )

Typical 16/2/2 builds:
about +3 damage on songs which in raids cannot be missed but might be expendable in smaller parties
Irresistable dance; if you are talking epic, thats a nice spell to have, question is wether dance or stun is better
Longer songs/buffs due to more levels of bard
AC-song; doesnt matter on epic
Better healing capability although still minimal
panic buttons work all the time, dont have to cut off rage for that

anyway, thats what i can come up with in between work here..will give it some more thought

[RoelHeeswijk]

I guess the question is, like we discussed earlier, wether or not you are a bard.

A melee-specialized bard such as this one needs to achieve pretty impressive dps-figures to be viable. The 15/2/3 and 16/2/2 bard formats typically achieve around 70-80% percent of the dps of a regular dps-toon. If this build can achieve something like 90% that would actually be worth considering. The number-crunching here is almost impossible though, because your lack of 3 damage per hit in your songs is what you have to make up for in your personal dps..

This build:
Supposedly superior dps, would have to make a number-crunching comparison for that..
A chance at stunning enemies, although not nearly as good as barbs
One tough mofo of a bard (you are better at the hp-calcs than i am so go ahead )

Typical 16/2/2 builds:
about +3 damage on songs which in raids cannot be missed but might be expendable in smaller parties
Irresistable dance; if you are talking epic, thats a nice spell to have, question is wether dance or stun is better
Longer songs/buffs due to more levels of bard
AC-song; doesnt matter on epic
Better healing capability although still minimal
panic buttons work all the time, dont have to cut off rage for that

anyway, thats what i can come up with in between work here..will give it some more thought

I share your doubts. but compared to a 16/2/2 you'd miss only 2 damage on your song; (+6 instead of +8, only a pure bard will get the 9th)
So with say a THF, a TWF and a monk in your average epic party, that would be about 11 additional party damage, (weighted for twf&speed, unscaled with crits, excluding yourself). I agree that if I can't even make up for that there's no point in trying this. Cause while rage and blur shouldn't be a problem, you do miss the ability to keep everyone hasted :-(
But the main problem is I'd have to see this glancing blow stunning in action to know how good it is. But it seems I'd have to explore the use of Otto's more also, didn't know it was that good. Them dancing doesn't somehow grant you an autocrit, does it?

I'll work out a TWF kensai II alternative first and then dive into some heavy math.

[Partydeluxe]

Nope dancing doesnt give auto-crit. It's just the only spell i know of that makes epic-mobs not run around and beat everyone to pulp. It is however not THAT good in your average multiclass bard build because you still need somewhat of a spell penetration to use it. In my case that is one or two enhancements and the capstone (+4 in total) which seems to be enough in most cases, but in a multiclass built such as this one you might have issues with those 6 action points it costs (for tier1-2 spellpen for a total of only +2). Unless you can easily fit in a feat.. Don't forget that sorcs and wizzies can also make people dance btw, its just a nice thing to have as an extra. Run up to a mob, dance him, kill him.

Dude min/maxing is frikkin complicated

[RoelHeeswijk]

Warforged (True Neutral)
12 Fighter // 8 Bard
Kensai II // Warchanter

(34 Point)
Strength        18+5=23  (+3 from enhancements)
Dexterity            14 
Constitution         18  (+2 from enhancements)
Intelligence          9
Wisdom                6
Charisma              7

Use Magic Device     23
Perform              22
Intimidate           21
Balance              10
Jump                  3
Tumble                1

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I

Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Construct Thinking I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I

168 base
210 from 20+3+8=31 con (little cheat)
45 shroud
30 GFL
88 toughness
80 enhancements
10 barb past life
10 draconic vitality
20 heroic durability

661 HP

10	base
2	WF composite plating
7	docent
7.5	dex (14+3tome+8items/boat=25)
5	protection
1	alchemical
3	chattering ring
4	DT
2	chaosgarde
1	haste
+5	barkskin

42.5+5 AC

[Partydeluxe]

Would something like that be better? 2WF does have more synergy with your own songs:

I also wouldn't mind the scroll mastery I, II and III. I could carry a shroud wiz VI item with cha-skills +5 and con-opp, so with +9 from CHA and +4 from GH i'll reach 40 UMD. Does this do anything or will I still wear madstone boots and be stoned when it matters?

Mm this build actually looks really cool don't you think? I like the massive ammounts of feats a lot, double weapon specialization PLUS double toughness is great! I also think you are right about the TWF, you generate even more damage from your songs (especially if there is a REAL bard around )

With regard to raging, I personally don't like it on my bard because especially on Epic I like to have a "holy cr*p"-button at hand without the need to end rage first. And in the case of madstone you can't even end it if you wanted to. With this build though, i don't think you will be throwing much buffs around that other dont throw as well except for you songs, and you will show up as a fighter on the healer's screen so they will try to keep you alive anyway so madstone/rage might not be a bad idea at all. Do remember that madstone is nerfed a bit though and it no longer gives that massive increase to speed..

Last thing; i would think about lowering CON 1 point and putting it in INT to up that balance a bit, you will get knocked down a lot and getting up is a usually a plus.

[RoelHeeswijk]

edit: redid enhancements to fit in fighter haste IV, but you are missing 1 toughness enhancement because you don't have the AP

Warforged (True Neutral)
10 Fighter // 2 Rogue // 8 Bard
Kensai II // Warchanter

(34 Point)
Strength        18+5=23  (+3 from enhancements)
Dexterity            14 
Constitution         18  (+2 from enhancements)
Intelligence          9
Wisdom                6
Charisma              7

Use Magic Device     23
Perform              23
Intimidate           23
Balance              13
Jump                  3
Tumble                1

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Feat: (Selected) Extend

Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Accuracy I

Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I

160 base
210 from 20+3+8=31 con (little cheat)
45 shroud
30 GFL
88 toughness
70 enhancements
10 barb past life
10 draconic vitality
20 heroic durability

643 HP

10	base
2	WF composite plating
7	docent
8	dex (14+3tome+7items/boat=24)
5	protection
1	alchemical
3	chattering ring
4	DT
2	chaosgarde
1	haste
+5	barkskin

42+5 AC

Reflex Save: 33

Reflex Save calculation

With 6 from bard, 3 from rogue and 3 from fighter, you're looking at a 12 base. Not as good as exploiters, but still equal to a 20 ranger or something.
You get 1 more from kensai I.
Your dex of 14 +3tome = 17 would ideally be increased with +7 epic ethereal gloves and +3 exceptional item, but let's count 7 from items, bringing the dex up to 24, so a +7 mod.
Even talking epic, no +6 resistance or superior stability gear comes to mind, so let's leave that at +5 for now.

I am going to count GH and haste, +4 +1
Since a head of good fortune is a bit unlikely to wear, you'd need a recitation for your luck bonus. Now that's not a spell you'll always be under. Let's just say you'll have either a paladin +2 aura in your party, or a cleric that likes to cast recitation. So on average +2 more.

There's also airships now, and even though you're not likely to wear a reflex bonus in an augmented item, I know there is a guy on our boat that gives +1 sacred bonus to all saves. I don't know yet how often i'll pick that up, but maybe there's also a +2 guy on higher levels, and certainly also a +2 dex shrine. So let's count at least 1 for that.

hm, that would put me at 12+1+7+5+4+1+2+1=33.
Kinda marginal, since it's already counting most things
(though REALLY stretching it, counting everything, would get it to 39, or even 42 with exceptional reflex saves like occult slayer :P)

[Partydeluxe]

Calculate your reflex-score, if it ends up over 30-35 then i'd say grab evasion.

[RoelHeeswijk]

Warforged (True Neutral)
6 Fighter // 6 Rogue // 8 Bard
Kensai II // Warchanter

(34 Point)
Strength        18+5=23  (+2 from enhancements)
Dexterity            14 
Constitution         18  (+2 from enhancements)
Intelligence          9
Wisdom                6
Charisma              7

Use Magic Device     23
Perform              23
Intimidate           23
Balance              23
Jump                  23
Tumble                1

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II

Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I with according useless prereqs (14 AP total)

Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I

144 base
210 from 20+3+8=31 con (little cheat)
45 shroud
30 GFL
44 toughness
60 enhancements
10 barb past life
10 draconic vitality
20 heroic durability

573 HP

10	base
2	WF composite plating
7	docent
8	dex (15+3tome+8items/boat=26)
5	protection
1	alchemical
3	chattering ring
4	DT
2	chaosgarde
1	haste
+5	barkskin

43+5 AC

Reflex Save: 35

[maddmatt70]

I like this overall concept of 12 fighter 8 bard and would stick with that level split. I think that build would be excellent for 6 person epic questing. I have thought about perhaps even tr or lr my 14 bard 4 rogue 2 fighter into one. I would recommend trying to fit in the stunning blow feat if at all possible and upping the stunning blow through enhancements. I think warforge is a fine choice for this build concept. The reason why I have not made this build is raiding is still important and the to hit loss on the songs is also important on alot of epic questing. Anyway good luck with your build.

[RoelHeeswijk]

dominated build

[RoelHeeswijk]

Since you can't fit Khopesh Proficiency in on a WF and you have AP to spare, maybe going dwarf for dwarven axes and their enhancements might be good.
This is what I ended up with:

12 Ranger \ 8 Bard 
Dwarf (True Neutral)

Strength        18+5=23
Dexterity            13 (+2 from enhancements)
Constitution         19 (+2 from enhancements)
Intelligence          8
Wisdom                8
Charisma              6 (+1 from enhancements)

max UMD, perform, balance and jump, and 1 in tumble

Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant or Construct?

Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II

Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II

144 base
200 from 21+3+8 con
45 shroud
30 GFL
22 toughness
40 enhancements
10 barb past life
10 draconic vitality
20 heroic durability

541 HP

10	base
8	light armor
7	maxdex (15+3tome+8items/boat=26)
1	armor mastery(DEX 26)
5	protection
1	alchemical
3	chattering ring
4	DT Insight
3	tempest
2	chaosgarde
1	dodge
5	barkskin
1	haste
+3	Favored Enemy
	
51+3 AC

6   Bard
8   Ranger
8   dex (15+3tome+8items/boat=26)
5   resistance
1   alchemical
2   recitation or paladin aura
4   GH
1   haste
1   boat
2   Dwarf
2   Dwarven Spell Defense 
+1  Favored Enemy
	
40+1 Reflex

[RoelHeeswijk]

Or forget about Tempest but keep Ranger for the TWF and Evasion. Thanks to Bardicus (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3207216) for that.

Since you have a LOT of AP you can go halfling and take the full sneak damage line.
You do only get a +4 barkskin.

11 Ranger \ 1 Fighter \ 8 Bard 
Halfling (True Neutral)

Strength        16+5=21
Dexterity            14 (+2 from enhancements)
Constitution         16
Intelligence          8
Wisdom                8
Charisma             14 (+1 from enhancements)

max UMD, perform, balance and jump, and 1 in tumble

Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Extend
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant

[code]Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III

Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II

Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II

146 base
220 from 21+3+8=32 con
45 shroud
30 GFL
66 toughness
50 enhancements
10 barb past life
10 draconic vitality
20 heroic durability

597 HP

10	base
2	WF composite plating
7	docent
8	dex (15+3tome+8items/boat=26)
5	protection
1	alchemical
3	chattering ring
4	DT insight
2	chaosgarde
4	barkskin
1	haste
+2	Favored Enhancement
	
47+3 AC

6   Bard
7   Ranger
0   Fighter
8   dex (15+3tome+8items/boat=26)
5   resistance
1   alchemical
2   recitation or paladin aura
4   GH
1   haste
1   boat
+2  Favored Enhancement
	
36+2 Reflex

wow, you can swim in the wasted AP here. You don't ever want healer's friend II and you don't really need wand mastery either. Or the second extra song, the fort save or the energy of music :-/

[testing1234]

bit curious has anyone done the numbers for a 6fighter 6rogue and 8 bard?

[RoelHeeswijk]

bit curious has anyone done the numbers for a 6fighter 6rogue and 8 bard?

Yeah, this seemed perfect to me also, but initially I was so disappointed in Assassin I that I didn't work it out at that point.
Now that I found out a 10/2 can't take weapon specialization II, i'm disappointed in that split even more, so let's look at what rogue would get you:

Compared to the 10/2:
I'd trade: fighter strenght III (6 AP), fighter toughness III&IV (7 AP), warforged hardiness (1 AP), warforged construct thinking (1AP), warforged power attack I (1 AP)
for: sneak attack training II (2 AP), damage boost I&II (3 AP), Assassin I (with useless prereqs, 11AP)

So you'd effectively trade 0.5 to hit, 1.5 to damage and 80HP
for: 13.5 sneak damage, 1 reflex, and the Assassin I poison thing.

You do improve quite a bit damage-wise, I ended up on average DPS 116.9 (vs. 110.3). This is with 40% of your attacks being sneaks.
Is this worth the 80 HP drop? To compare, I don't take weapon focus over toughness, and wouldn't that have given a better damage increase?
Or does poison actually do anything?

I did put the complete build somewhere in this thread (to keep this all readable)

[RoelHeeswijk]

added 11 Ranger / 1 Fighter without any tempest.

for completeness, I also added 11 Ranger / 1 Fighter with tempest 1

I compared this to the tempest II; you effectively only drop tempest II for the khopesh feat. This turned out to be a very slight, but pretty clear-cut, improvement. So I removed that build (though the dwarven alternative still stands)

[Propane]

Do you have extend? That makes a big difference - for buffs...

Evil outsiders, Constructs (portals) and elementals for FE

[RoelHeeswijk]

Do you have extend? That makes a big difference - for buffs...

Evil outsiders, Constructs (portals) and elementals for FE

hm, any but the dwarven tempest can easily fit this in at the cost of 22 HP, and they should all be able to take that hit.

But I certainly disagree on taking constructs as racial enemy. Sure is nice to go faster through a shroud, but I think the undead in epicanized low-leveled content make me want to keep that one.

[Propane]

True at low levels... you can always swap it out...

Extend will allow you do some buffing and save the other casters mana... Blur, haste, jump, etc...

[Bardicus]

Roel, are you counting Ram's Might in the ranger calcs? What about ManyShot?

Also, think you've got an extra Toughness on the Kensai II where you need Greater Weapon Focus: Slash