Drow Weapon Enhancements

[Roziel_Longblade]

I was looking at the weapon enhancements for drow the other day and they dont make a lot of sense to me. I get the short sword but where did the shuriken idea come from? Drow have automatic proficiency in HAND CROSSBOWS. The drow ranged weapon ehn in DDO should then be light repeater crossbows (the closest thing to a hand crossbow).

Was this different on Ebberon?

[Thriand]

They gave drow shuriken specialization because they wanted drow to have the absolute worst set of racial enhancements in the game.

[blitzschlag]

They gave drow shuriken specialization because they wanted drow to have the absolute worst set of racial enhancements in the game.

and still ppl roll drow chars and think theyre useful...

[Angelus_dead]

Was this different on Ebberon?

Yes, Eberron drow are from a different and more primitive culture that does not manufacture crossbows. They instead get a boomerang as their ranged exotic proficiency, which DDO replaces with shuriken.

There are three things the DDO devs can do to improve this situation, while remaining true to the D&D setting:
1. Merge drow melee and ranged weapon enhancements into one, just like how dwarf gets throwing axe included with their melee enhancements.

2. Give shurikens a small percentage boost to attack rate compared to other thrown weapons (10% maybe)

3. Allow monks to use Ki abilities (and income) with shuriken if the target is within short range.

[Roziel_Longblade]

They don't really need to make new rules. Let thrown weapons be equip'd in the off hand and the problem will be solved. Although I guess that is a new rule for ddo.

[Doganpc]

Shuriken are worthless, even the best ones I've seen are relatively useless. The Short Sword + Rapier enhancements though give the player more options in weapons to use and doesn't demand you get oversized TWF. Drow are excellent at what they do, don't hate because you can't copy whatever 32pt power build you found in the forums with one.

Dogan
You roll Drow, to play Drow.

[Roziel_Longblade]

Shuriken are worthless, even the best ones I've seen are relatively useless. The Short Sword + Rapier enhancements though give the player more options in weapons to use and doesn't demand you get oversized TWF. Drow are excellent at what they do, don't hate because you can't copy whatever 32pt power build you found in the forums with one.

Dogan
You roll Drow, to play Drow.

Not sure where the rant from the second half of your post was directed. No one said anything negative about short swords. No one brought up any 32pt builds or drow ability scores. The only thing being talked about were enhancements, specifically the ranged choice, which you agree sucks.

Even though I have many Drow enhancement issues, and because of the lore it seems we are stuck with shurikens, it would be cool if they did something to at make at least one racial enhancement useful that was not open to another race.

Angelus's merge idea would be a start (although I would really rather have Greyhawk drows with repeaters and free spells).

[noinfo]

Not sure where the rant from the second half of your post was directed. No one said anything negative about short swords. No one brought up any 32pt builds or drow ability scores. The only thing being talked about were enhancements, specifically the ranged choice, which you agree sucks.

Even though I have many Drow enhancement issues, and because of the lore it seems we are stuck with shurikens, it would be cool if they did something to at make at least one racial enhancement useful that was not open to another race.

Angelus's merge idea would be a start (although I would really rather have Greyhawk drows with repeaters and free spells).

Give them a bonus to 2 weapon fighting. Drow have been known for it since they first appeared in dnd (not talking about THAT drow either)

The racial bonus up to +2 to hit with melee weapons when 2 are equipped. The same for damage.

Instead of having to have a ranged weapon or as well give them a line of 2 weapon defense. +1/+2

[AylinIsAwesome]

Instead of having to have a ranged weapon or as well give them a line of 2 weapon defense. +1/+2

That could be interesting.

Maybe with a +2/+3 bonus instead though? Make it significant enough so that people will actually make builds that use it.

[Roziel_Longblade]

This thread was about the useless ranged enhancement line for Drow, but it brings up the real issue of thrown weapons, specifically shuriken which costs a feat to use, being underpowered and virtually unused in game. Some very good ideas for thrown weapons, Shuriken specifically, and to rebalance Drow weapon enhancements have been posted. In summary...

Drow weapon enhancement balancing:
From Angelus - Merge Drow thrown and melee weapons
From NoInfo - Swap out shuriken for an AC enhancement line for 2wf
From Roziel - (lore issue) Give us Greyhawk Drow and light xbow BAB and dam line

Throwing in general:
From Roziel - allow off hand throwing w/ 2wf if not with all thrown then at least with an exotic weapon like shuriken

Shuriken Specific balancing:
From Angelus - Shuriken support ki generation and ki powers
From Angelus - Inc Shuriken throwing speed

Thoughts??

[t0r012]

add DoT poison (or bleed DoT) to throwing stars for drow as a boost.
or give dex bonus to damage for drow stars
or improved crit muti (say 17-20?)
actually fix 10,000 stars monk ability so that it does something?
give a drow a multi shot type ability with stars?

all of the above?

[YakoSpiritFist]

It's simple, just don't invest points into it. I chose Drow as the race for my ninja spy monk and it's working out great. I only use the Shuriken to draw in specific targets and if i'm lucky it won't aggro the whole mob. The ninja spy enhancement made it more viable to choose drow as a race to use. I do agree though that they should beef up the shuriken's stats a bit.

[Roziel_Longblade]

After finding out that Ebberon Drow lore is very different than Greyhawk Drow lore, I took some time to explore it. To my surprise the Drow have a very useful ranged weapon that doubles as their melee weapon.

THE DROW LONG KNIFE
The Long Knife has the stats of a short sword and is used as both a melee and thrown weapon. Bring the Long Knife to the game as an exotic thrown weapon that can be used in the main and off hand, has short sword stats, and is affected by short sword bonuses and enhancements. Give it the very short range of a rogue SA.

Weapon Enhancement issues solved, Drow uniqueness sustained, lore maintained.

[Doganpc]

Not sure where the rant from the second half of your post was directed. No one said anything negative about short swords. No one brought up any 32pt builds or drow ability scores. The only thing being talked about were enhancements, specifically the ranged choice, which you agree sucks.

Even though I have many Drow enhancement issues, and because of the lore it seems we are stuck with shurikens, it would be cool if they did something to at make at least one racial enhancement useful that was not open to another race.

Angelus's merge idea would be a start (although I would really rather have Greyhawk drows with repeaters and free spells).

Its simple actually. You titled the thread, "Drow Weapon Enhancements", I'm a little confused about your mention of the "second half" as It was only 3/4 of a paragraph to begin with. I didn't say anything to support short swords either, I stated that by having them and rapiers you give players a lot of options with either since 1 enhancement covers them both, compared to say Elf (longsword OR scimitar). Ability scores (Drow and 32pt builds) come up because the drow melee enhancements are both weapons that can benefit from weapon finesse which uses an alternative ability score (dexterity) for your attack bonus. The extra bite in regard to 32pt builds is due to people who try to use Drow in place of 32pt build (favored or bought) while trying to copy a build they find in the forums. Maybe the title of the thread should have been more along the lines of... Possible solutions for Drow (ranged) weapon enhancements.

Personally, my solution would be to make Ten Thousand Stars more useable. The timers seem fine (20s of bonus every 60s), but the ki cost and bonus (+50%) could use some work. To be honest though.. I don't use the Shuriken enough to notice if it generates ki. If it does, then its fine and I might try to work it in if I got AP to spare otherwise its a waste since every situation where I find myself needing ranged attack I *might* have enough ki for one use and that won't be enough with how weak the weapon is.

Dogan
Communication, the key to a successful party.

[Roziel_Longblade]

uummmm.... Does that mean you comment only on thread titles without reading any posts? It is an interesting choice.