Auction House - how to handle things?

[wlmartin]

I love the idea of the Auction House - in other games such as Ultima Online players had to create our own out-of-game marketplace and it was very insecure so AH gets big thumbs up from me.

That being said I am finding it very hard to use.

I have items that I would like to put on the Auction House but even when I mark them as 5-10% cheaper than the nearest available one being sold I am getting no bites. On other occasions I am putting nice items up there that are 4-5000pp at much lower prices (like 100pp) hoping that the bidding will rise and give me some indication of just how realistic those prices are by a simple trial and error fashion.. however they dont rise and I am selling them way below I see other AH items for or I even see being sold / bought in the trade channel.

Add to that the AH juice is 50% or so it seems, it seems fairly impossible to sell anything on the Auction House without knowing how to use it (and not let it use you!) and much easier just to sit around in Trade Channel putting items up for sale!

So apart from a general rant which this post seems to be sounding like I am more looking for a method or hints on how to improve my selling on the AH.

: Is there a formula for item prices (ie ML * (Base / 2) or (ML/2) * ( (Base / 3) + Amount of Attributes))
: Are there any rules as to what I should be Vendoring and not (ie Vendor anything below 1000pp, anything else put on AH/Trade Channel)
: Are there any good tips that will help make sure the items I am selling actually sell!

I don't want to be rolling around in money, I don't want to buy something for 500pp and then sell it on for 5000pp, that would be nice but not the angle I am looking for. I am looking simply to get a better return than the 10% the vendors give me on my items and make as much as the other people on the AH do.

The way I see it is if I sell something for 1000pp to a vendor I can expect about 100pp back from it. If I sell that on the AH perhaps I could get 800pp for it and half or so of that goes to the AH fees but its still better than the Vendor offers and although I could probably get around the AH fee by sitting at the mailbox selling for an hour, that is an hour I would rather spend playing the game.

Any and all feedback appreciated.
Thanks

[blitzschlag]

you are mixing things up there mate


there is only 2 options

1)
a)item does sell because of demand and reasonable price
b)item does sell because of demand and unreasonable price
2)
a)item does not sell because its sub-par and therefore not demanded
b)item does not sell because its ridiculously overpriced. demand does not matter
c)item does not sell because there are enough of similar items in similar price-regions


so i guess you have
a) a strange definition of good items
b) you have another definition of good pricing for items (other prices may be ridiculous aswell)
c) a combination of a) and b)
d) trying to sell usual vendor trash at the ah (linked to a))

[wlmartin]

Thanks for the input, I agree that what I am putting on maybe isnt as good as I think it is...

I tried putting some +4 Dex Gloves on there the other day and simply saw other people had them on for 20k, (the lowest was 20k with some higher) - so I put some on at 15k and it went unsold.

I think the key thing is learning what to Vendor and what not to Vendor as well as figuring out the best sell price for things.

I was looking to see if anyone has come up with any smart formulas or rules as what to vendor and what not to vendor.... some people say vendor stuff below 100pp, some say below 1000pp and im not sure as I'm trying to get to grips with it.

Thanks

[blitzschlag]

Thanks for the input, I agree that what I am putting on maybe isnt as good as I think it is...

I tried putting some +4 Dex Gloves on there the other day and simply saw other people had them on for 20k, (the lowest was 20k with some higher) - so I put some on at 15k and it went unsold.

I think the key thing is learning what to Vendor and what not to Vendor as well as figuring out the best sell price for things.

I was looking to see if anyone has come up with any smart formulas or rules as what to vendor and what not to vendor.... some people say vendor stuff below 100pp, some say below 1000pp and im not sure as I'm trying to get to grips with it.

Thanks

plain +4 dex gloves (ml 9) are quite good items and have a reasonable chance of selling. your problem here is the pricing.

some recent history: with update 5 the auction house pricing has been changed from gold based to platinum based. what followed was of lots of ppl that wanted to make a quick coin on otheres that don't pay much attention and ppl that just did not realize there was a change.

what remained is the rule that good items still sell for reasonable prices.
plain +4 items (plain meaning no other trash suffix on em) are probably worth 4-7k plat. rings maybe 6-10k if youre lucky. thats what i would call reasonable pricing.
you will sell those items either to the one that thinks its a bargain or to those that need to keep their ridiculous prices in shape. don't get fooled of the feeling you may be selling cheap.

[mws2970]

Much of the loot you pull is just vendor trash. Take the time to sell to weapons and armor brokers and you will get more back than if you sell at a general vendor or to a barkeep. Sell weapons in House D and armor in House K. Once you have access, sell to the brokers in the IQ and Shavarath as well.

As for items like your +4 Dex gloves, those can be put on the AH and will sell if well-priced. 15k plat is too much as someone already said. Just because your item is the lowest price does not mean it's a fair price and will sell. Here's what I do. (I readily admit I borrowed this idea) Put it up at the base price, let's say 4900 pp with a buy out price of double that, so 9800 pp. I have had very good success selling like this and I made a whole lot more than if I vendored it. Just my 2 cp worth of advice.

edit*

/snip
So, this is the time to undercut the AH's prices quite a bit, and you'll still make a lot of platinum as people look at your reduced prices and think they are getting a great deal.

^^What he said^^

[wlmartin]

Great advice!
So the key question is : What is Vendor Trash and what isn't?

Is there a value where it starts getting worth not selling to the Vendor?

[adam1oftheround]

The auction house rate is a flat fee plus 1/3 of whatever your sale price is. The flat fee is just to mail it back to you if it doesn't sell. The third of your sale price is to charge you for the sale services if your auction is successful. If you can sell an item for about half it's actual value on the auction house, you will have made more money than at most vendors selling stuff to them. Keep in mind that many items will not sell on auction house because there are superior items available for low prices on auction house already. You can get about 20% to 22%of an items value from vendors by selling it to them with a decent haggle skill. Have fun.

[Backley]

Much of the loot you pull is just vendor trash. Take the time to sell to weapons and armor brokers and you will get more back than if you sell at a general vendor or to a barkeep. Sell weapons in House D and armor in House K. Once you have access, sell to the brokers in the IQ and Shavarath as well.

1. IQ and Shavrath pawn brokers are the same 15% base rate that House D/K pawn brokers are. Only better because you can sell weapons and armor in one spot.

2. EDIT: Update 5.1 changed the Guild General Vendor in House K to a 14.0% base sell rate (so you sell there for Base*(14.0% + 0.25%*Haggle). You only need to be Guild Level 4 to use the Guild General Vendor. This is better than the 12.5% you get from vendors (barkeeps, etc.), so sell your non-pawnable items to the Guild General Vendor.

See also http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle

[sirgog]

plain +4 dex gloves (ml 9) are quite good items and have a reasonable chance of selling. your problem here is the pricing.

some recent history: with update 5 the auction house pricing has been changed from gold based to platinum based. what followed was of lots of ppl that wanted to make a quick coin on otheres that don't pay much attention and ppl that just did not realize there was a change.

what remained is the rule that good items still sell for reasonable prices.
plain +4 items (plain meaning no other trash suffix on em) are probably worth 4-7k plat. rings maybe 6-10k if youre lucky. thats what i would call reasonable pricing.
you will sell those items either to the one that thinks its a bargain or to those that need to keep their ridiculous prices in shape. don't get fooled of the feeling you may be selling cheap.

Khyber price on a +4 stat item, min level 9, no other mods is about 18-30k PP, depending on how many classes care about the stat and which inventory slot it goes in (Int goggles are lowest as only Wizards and the odd rogue care about Int, Con rings are highest).

Basically you want to set prices like this (note - completely ignore base price here, it is utterly irrelevant)

1) Is this item perfect for a veteran player levelling an alt or a TR (example: +5 Con ring, min level 11 - excluding race requirements, it's the best possible item at what it does, and it does something lots of toons want). If so - price it *unreasonably high*. If it does not sell, keep trying until it does.
Your target market here is veterans with more than a million plat across their account.
On these items, level 10 or 25 guild requirements are a huge bonus, as your target market can use these augments.
Examples:
Ring of Greater False Life
+3 or better stat item, no other modifiers
Belt of Moderate Fortification, no other modifiers (min level 7, awesome on Warforged)
Clicky - Haste 5/rest
Clicky - Divine Power 5/rest
+2 Holy ¼staff of Pure Good
+3 Acid Khopesh of Maiming
Superior Combustion 4 one-hander
Superior Devotion 4 or 6 one-handers


2) Is it not quite good enough to qualify for option 1, but still pretty good at what it does? If so, price it so that a new player could afford it, but would need to save up for it. Your target market: Stingy vets (who will settle for second best to save plat) and newbies (for whom it will be a big item upgrade). If in doubt, 10k PP.
Examples:
+2 Holy Longsword
+5 Flaming Greatsword
+4 Con ring of Jump +3 (min level 11)
Lesser Acid Guard belt of Moderate Fortification (min level 9)


3) Is it a standard consumable/ingredient? If so, price it at just under the lowest price you see for that item on the AH.
Example:
Greater Mneumonic Enhancement Potion


4) If in doubt, and the item does something that seems useful or unique, ask in /trade chat. Do this sparingly.
Example:
Atonement (+5 holy greatsword, grants immunity to Quell Intercession, is the *only* item in the game that grants that immunity. This item is worth *a lot*.)

[Pixxt]

Great info so far.

I have not been playing DDO long myself, a few months now, but do enjoy the economies of mmorpgs I have played, the quirks, and the learning from watching the market. I tend to go more for the quick sell, saving me space and moving items out and sold as quickly as possible.

Some things I do which may or may not be good advice:

1. Always have a buyout price. Buyers looking at items with 2 or 3 days to go and no buyout suck for individuals eager with coin ready to spend, patience may be a virtue and judging from amount of individuals enjoying zerging missions in this game (I am slow poke), patience does not seem to define the majority of the ddo player base.

2. I use nothing but 24 hour auctions, sometimes several times over each occasion the item is returned to me I am continually dropping the price and resetting the auction, unless I am going out of town or am unable to log in to rethrow up auctions for a few days.

3. *Take note of what your items sell for when you get your coin from your mailbox. I would imagine many people say “money yay” click it and forget what their items actually sold for. You may notice some things sell for a surprising amount of return, make a mental note or write it down if your memory is clouded by years of habitual partying. For example, the +3 wisdom helm ML 7 selling for 45,000 platinum, low level disease immunity rings, mana potions if you don’t have sp, certain ingredients, low level fortitude items, seemingly unbalanced weapons and armor for the level, etc.

4. Non-pure items tend to be junk, tend to be junk (I said that twice I know). Who wants ML 15 search 10 and +1 int goggles when they can get and use search 15 goggles ML 15. Watered down versions of superior items, for the level, are going to be difficult to sell, if not impossible.

5. Note the minimum level of each item you are thinking of selling (see the wisdom helm example above), and gauge the potential desirability of the item. A ML 4 +1 acid khopesh of pure good will likely fetch some decent platinum compared to a ML 8 or higher version, the ML 8 disruptor/vorpal will also likely sell quicker and for more than the ML 14 disruptor/vorpal, etc., you do not need to be the super-powered-almighty high level to pull some neat gems from chests. (for the record I do not have a toon over level 17 yet)

6. Take the time to see what other similar items are priced at in the AH. I tend to think that 7 of the same item placed on auction for 1.5 million platinum is either the same person selling the item, a group of the same people selling the same item, or individuals who do not care to compete and sell the item competitively against the other sellers (at least you can pretend to compete and space out the pricings, c’mon now). If you are not selling you are not making coin. Continually undercut others to move items. When you have tired of undercutting with no sales (it’s your call), boost your haggle and sell to the appropriate vendors.

7. Update and upgrade your gear as you level, selling off your old gear you are replacing to those that will get use of it. The higher your level, the more potential improvements you will obtain from ah sold gear. You may wish to pass your old gear off to other toons, that is fine but it’s not going to make you any coin if gaining coin is your goal.

8. Try not to make a habit of making large purchases or sales through the AH (to prevent the ah cut), use the trade channel or forums to express what you would like to buy or sell for larger items, lets say items you may value over 200k platinum (depending on the individual you may wish to go higher or lower). Do not spam auctions. You can make out well saving coin by avoiding AH transactions, savings for both the buyer and seller.

9.You can also “fish” in the AH for specific popular items to purchase and resell for higher, looking for misprices, etc. I tend to avoid this practice but if you are willing to put in the time and energy to scan the AH for hours, so be it, kudos to you. The AH search function in DDO prevents or seems to deter the ease of fishing which may have been easier in other games.

10. Have fun and don’t let the AH suck you in forgetting the fun you may have actually playing the game. One person’s trash could be another’s treasure. I am fairly new to the game and perhaps the above will be helpful for others. You learn along the way, I certainly still am.

[Pixxt]

Khyber price on a +4 stat item, min level 9, no other mods is about 18-30k PP, depending on how many classes care about the stat and which inventory slot it goes in (Int goggles are lowest as only Wizards and the odd rogue care about Int, Con rings are highest).

Basically you want to set prices like this (note - completely ignore base price here, it is utterly irrelevant)

1) Is this item perfect for a veteran player levelling an alt or a TR (example: +5 Con ring, min level 11 - excluding race requirements, it's the best possible item at what it does, and it does something lots of toons want). If so - price it *unreasonably high*. If it does not sell, keep trying until it does.
Your target market here is veterans with more than a million plat across their account.
On these items, level 10 or 25 guild requirements are a huge bonus, as your target market can use these augments.
Examples:
Ring of Greater False Life
+3 or better stat item, no other modifiers
Belt of Moderate Fortification, no other modifiers (min level 7, awesome on Warforged)
Clicky - Haste 5/rest
Clicky - Divine Power 5/rest
+2 Holy ¼staff of Pure Good
+3 Acid Khopesh of Maiming
Superior Combustion 4 one-hander
Superior Devotion 4 or 6 one-handers


2) Is it not quite good enough to qualify for option 1, but still pretty good at what it does? If so, price it so that a new player could afford it, but would need to save up for it. Your target market: Stingy vets (who will settle for second best to save plat) and newbies (for whom it will be a big item upgrade). If in doubt, 10k PP.
Examples:
+2 Holy Longsword
+5 Flaming Greatsword
+4 Con ring of Jump +3 (min level 11)
Lesser Acid Guard belt of Moderate Fortification (min level 9)


3) Is it a standard consumable/ingredient? If so, price it at just under the lowest price you see for that item on the AH.
Example:
Greater Mneumonic Enhancement Potion


4) If in doubt, and the item does something that seems useful or unique, ask in /trade chat. Do this sparingly.
Example:
Atonement (+5 holy greatsword, grants immunity to Quell Intercession, is the *only* item in the game that grants that immunity. This item is worth *a lot*.)

Sirgog's 10k rule is excellent! I put things of those caliber at 9999 buyout looks a little better with one less digit.

[Docrailgun]

Personally, I have had success at selling things at 25% or so above what the base value is. Keep in mind that the AH prices are inflated anyway, even more so because people continue to offer items based on what they might have charged in GOLD PIECES, rather than the plat prices are in now. Most everyone would be served by chopping off an end zero of their prices in the AH. So, your +4 Dex gloves simply aren't worth 200,000 gold. I POSSIBLY would have bought something like that for 20K gold (2K plat), but 20K plat simply encourages me to go adventure and find these sorts of items.
So, this is the time to undercut the AH's prices quite a bit, and you'll still make a lot of platinum as people look at your reduced prices and think they are getting a great deal.

Thanks for the input, I agree that what I am putting on maybe isnt as good as I think it is...

I tried putting some +4 Dex Gloves on there the other day and simply saw other people had them on for 20k, (the lowest was 20k with some higher) - so I put some on at 15k and it went unsold.

I think the key thing is learning what to Vendor and what not to Vendor as well as figuring out the best sell price for things.

I was looking to see if anyone has come up with any smart formulas or rules as what to vendor and what not to vendor.... some people say vendor stuff below 100pp, some say below 1000pp and im not sure as I'm trying to get to grips with it.

Thanks

[OverlordOfRats]

I can tell you what I use. You won't get rich on a single sell, but you will make more than selling to vendors.

Post for 3 days and set a buyout price.
Next, figure out what percent you get from the vendors. Price offered by vendor/Price of item.
Minimum price = Price of item x Percent vendors gives x 1.3(to cover auction house's 30%) + Posting fee
Buyout price = price of item/3 (standard items) to price of item x 1.3 (good items)

Example: +1 Charisma item Value 100pp
From vendor I would get 15pp (15%)
AH Minimum Price = 22 (100x.15x1.3+2) (Make a sheet to keep handy with various values so you don't have to do the Price x Percent x 1.3 all the time. Easy enough to add Posting fee.)
AH Buyout Price = 33 (I use 1/3 for low level stuff)
From AH I get either 15pp 4gp or 23pp (either way more than vendor)

I almost never get items returned to me and most items sell in the first 24hrs. Potions and scrolls do not sell well from my experience.

Using this for you +4 dex gloves start price around 350pp buyout 2080pp Vendor = 240pp AH = 245pp to 1600pp.

Hope this helps

[wlmartin]

I can tell you what I use. You won't get rich on a single sell, but you will make more than selling to vendors.

Post for 3 days and set a buyout price.
Next, figure out what percent you get from the vendors. Price offered by vendor/Price of item.
Minimum price = Price of item x Percent vendors gives x 1.3(to cover auction house's 30%) + Posting fee
Buyout price = price of item/3 (standard items) to price of item x 1.3 (good items)

Example: +1 Charisma item Value 100pp
From vendor I would get 15pp (15%)
AH Minimum Price = 22 (100x.15x1.3+2) (Make a sheet to keep handy with various values so you don't have to do the Price x Percent x 1.3 all the time. Easy enough to add Posting fee.)
AH Buyout Price = 33 (I use 1/3 for low level stuff)
From AH I get either 15pp 4gp or 23pp (either way more than vendor)

I almost never get items returned to me and most items sell in the first 24hrs. Potions and scrolls do not sell well from my experience.

Using this for you +4 dex gloves start price around 350pp buyout 2080pp Vendor = 240pp AH = 245pp to 1600pp.

Hope this helps

This is an excelent way to do things, I am a demon for spreadsheets so will make one up to cover the above formula -

The key thing so far I have learned is that it is POINTLESS checking the AH for the going rate of an item as it is a complete falsehood! (as I have no way of seeing how many have sold at what price, an average sell price suggestion would be a good idea devs!)

So I am going to use the above and aim really low, move the goalposts as I go along and through trial and error I would hope to have a steady idea of what works

Thanks a great deal guys!

[wlmartin]

Again let me say, great advice!

2 things I have learnt so far

1 : Have a formula for selling things with an aim to get at LEAST what the vendor would give you (accounting for fees) as the minimum price and say twice what the vendor would give you as the buyout
2 : Keep an eye on things that you sell often, if you put something down and it sells straight away on buyout, chances are you put it down to cheap.. however if it doesnt sell, make sure that if you are listing that item (or type of item) again to lower expectation on that

example : I put down 3 seperate vials of water all at 500pp each, they sold all at the same time (suggesting one person bought all 3) and within a few minutes of me listing them so that gives me a big message "500pp for vial of water is tooo cheap, next time put it up"

example : I put down a few +1 lesser undead/reptilian bane items hoping to get a minimum of vendor price as starting bid and x2 vendor price for buyout but they didnt sell - i relisted them and put down the minimum as the same (of course) but the buyout as vendor x1.5 - they still didn't sell and this showed me an important lesson... these things arent worth vendoring.

Now using the above "trial and error" mentality it means that I will sell some items i "could" have got more money for at a much lower price than I should, but next time I sell that item I will price higher. This could of course sell too quickly and prove to have made me less money as well but I would rather keep trying this method than to constantly put stuff on the AH and have to relist over and over with a lower price each time hoping to get a bite.


Oh, and the other important lesson I found was "Don't trust the AH" ---- it is pointless to price your goods 5% less or 10% less than what other people are selling them for because these could already be over inflated and without some kind of in-game experience of the marketplace or a tool that tells you the average sellprice for certain items... you cant trust the AH!



Again thanks for all the advise guys, to be sure my stuff is now selling on the AH a lot better than it did before and whilst my coffers might have taken a hit on me selling some stuff too cheap, they are definetely rising so thanks!

[GraysonAC]

example : I put down 3 seperate vials of water all at 500pp each, they sold all at the same time (suggesting one person bought all 3) and within a few minutes of me listing them so that gives me a big message "500pp for vial of water is tooo cheap, next time put it up"

Not necessarily. Remember that anything that's on the AH is there because it has NOT sold

Vials/Feverbranch are something that took a huge hit in value over the last two months. I was selling them as a noob for 20k gold, and now I see them up for 300 plat fairly often.

example : I put down a few +1 lesser undead/reptilian bane items

Again, not necessarily. It depends on the weapon type. Good weapon types will sell fast, and bad weapon types will never sell. For example, I threw a +1 LUB greatsword up for 500p, and it sold in a few hours. Better than vendoring it, and someone got a decent zombie-whacker.