I started playing DDO a few months ago, with a Spellsinger haggle-bard which was kind of a jack-of-all trades. Got it to level 8 (done korthos/harbor/mp and some of the houses quests).
Now, some friends will start playing the game, and i'm planning on creating a new toon to play with them (don't know if i'll switch to the bard when they get to lvl8 or stick with this new one, i gues it will depend of the one i get the most fun from). PS: We will be 4 atm, one of them being a bs twf warrior, and the other two haven't build the toon yet, and have no preferences.
Before starting to discuss a build, i'd like to say that i'm looking for a f2p build with no use of tomes, and i doubt i'll have the time (or patience) to grind various times for the best gear at endgme, if i get there. That should be taken into account. I also try to avoid playing a "standart" build, and although i want the toon to be at least resonably good, the more unique it is, the better. for the sake of RP, i'm choosing a drow for this toon.
That being said, they're two builds i've been eager to try, both of them primarly Ranger builds:
- The first one would be a Ranger 12 / Bard 8 Tempest Virtuoso, a sneaky twf toon able to go ahead of the team and do heavy CC through songs while keeping healing/buffing support (thourhg spells/umd) and good dps once the heads start flying. This would be my preferred build, but i'm not sure i could make it work without tomes/respec (if viable, i'd love to use it though, and will be my focus in that case);
- The second one (the one i'm working on right now) would be a kind of high-bab shadowdancer with trap skills (which can't be made 100%, since there's no shadowdancer here in DDO). I haven't played past the level my bard was, and i'm having some issues while planning it.
Level progression: i'm having a hard time figuring out how to order the classes. Until lvl9 it's easy enough, rgr6/fit2/rog1 gives me feats and some really useful enhancements (tempest I among them). Then the problems start: i want kensai as soon as possible, but i need evasion (and i really want fighter 7, haste and class thoughness are a very nice thing to have in my drow). tempest II may come into play too late, but if i put it earlier (and reach it by lvl15) the bonus feats from fighter will only be gained past that level, which i think is too late too. Comments on the order posted above would be good.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Eyrynnhv Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Male (7 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) Hit Points: 304 Spell Points: 135 BAB: 19\19\24\29\29 Fortitude: 15 Reflex: 19 Will: 6 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 14 14 16 Dexterity 16 21 24 Constitution 14 14 14 Intelligence 14 14 14 Wisdom 10 10 10 Charisma 10 10 10 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 7 11 Bluff 0 1 Concentration 2 3 Diplomacy 0 1 Disable Device 6 25 Haggle 0 0 Heal 0 0 Hide 7 14 Intimidate 0 1 Jump 5 6 Listen 4 8 Move Silently 7 14 Open Lock 7 16 Perform n/a n/a Repair 2 2 Search 6 27 Spot 4 17 Swim 2 3 Tumble 4 8 Use Magic Device 4 26 Level 1 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I Level 2 (Ranger) Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I Level 3 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I Level 4 (Ranger) Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I Level 5 (Ranger) Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I Level 6 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I Level 7 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack Level 8 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant Level 9 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons Level 10 (Ranger) Level 11 (Ranger) Level 12 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device Level 13 (Fighter) Level 14 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons Level 15 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Level 16 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons Level 17 (Fighter) Level 18 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting Level 19 (Ranger) Level 20 (Ranger) Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II Enhancement: Kensei Rapier Mastery I Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II Enhancement: Fighter Strength I Enhancement: Fighter Strength II Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Weapon finesse: this feat makes stat managing easier, improves some rogue skills and contributes to AC and reflex save for evasion. The problem is that i don't know if this won't make my dps too low to mean something (by not going STR-based), or if the extra AC will be useful at all (since no uber-gear nor extra tomes to play with).
Enhancements: Don't know if the fighter strength enhancements are worth it in this case, and i'm also having doubts about the order of the enhancements i should choose after level 7 (which is why they're all chosen at lvl20, after that level).
Other thing that may be a problem is the weak will save stat (no Slippery Mind makes it worst), although i'm not sure how to boost it (maybe put Iron Will feat somewhere?). In the rogue department, i'm not sure how much is enough to open everything at least in all f2p quests in each skill (i'm aware this is due to lack of more experience at latter levels from my part).
Any help/guidance with this (or hopefully the Virt Rangard i talked) build would be deeply appreciated.
PS: Didn't know where to post (f2p? multiclass?), but since both my ideas were primarly rangers i decided to post here, for more chance of feedback.
(EDIT: Ranger/bard build scrap below)
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07-21-2010, 09:08 PM #1Community Member
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Help with couple builds (shadowdancer or ranger/bard)
Last edited by JanusZeal95; 07-24-2010 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Title change
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07-23-2010, 02:16 PM #2Community Member
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desperate bump
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07-23-2010, 03:36 PM #3Build Constructionist
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Since I like your Tempest Virtuoso idea better too, so that's the one I worked on.
I don't consider this any sort of minmaxed build, but a novel hybrid for your (and my) own amusement.
First question is leveling order. I chose to focus on bard first, then switch to ranger. IMHO the bard buffs & songs are more useful so I tried to get those ASAP.
Max ranks in Concentration, Hide, MS, Perform, UMD; some points in Balance, Jump, and Spot as well.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female (12 Ranger \ 8 Bard) Hit Points: 246 Spell Points: 374 BAB: 18\18\23\28\28 Fortitude: 12 Reflex: 19 Will: 9 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 15 20 Dexterity 16 20 Constitution 14 14 Intelligence 12 12 Wisdom 8 8 Charisma 12 14 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 7 15 Bluff 1 2 Concentration 4 25 Diplomacy 1 4 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 1 2 Heal -1 -1 Hide 7 28 Intimidate 1 2 Jump 6 13 Listen -1 3 Move Silently 7 28 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 5 32 Repair 1 1 Search 1 3 Spot -1 7 Swim 2 5 Tumble 5 7 Use Magic Device 5 25 Level 1 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Hide (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Move Silently (+4) Skill: Perform (+4) Skill: Tumble (+2) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds Level 2 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Spot (+5) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead Level 3 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+2) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Skill: Spot (+1) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Level 4 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Perform (+3) Skill: Use Magic Device (+3) Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Level 5 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Focusing Chant Level 6 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Level 7 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Feather Fall Spell (2): Rage Level 8 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+2) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Perform II Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I Level 9 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Jump (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Mobility Spell (3): Displacement Spell (3): Haste Spell (2): Heroism Level 10 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Jump (+2) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Level 11 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 12 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons Spell (1): Camouflage Spell (1): Jump Spell (1): Longstrider Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing Spell (1): Ram's Might Spell (1): Resist Energy Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I Spell (1): Tumble Level 13 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant Level 14 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 15 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II Level 16 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Barkskin Spell (2): Bear's Endurance Spell (2): Cat's Grace Spell (2): Hold Animal Spell (2): Mass Camouflage Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom Spell (2): Protection From Energy Spell (2): Snare Spell (2): Spike Growth Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II Level 17 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Level 18 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Level 19 (Ranger) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Neutralize Poison Spell (3): Remove Disease Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III Spell (3): Wild Instincts Level 20 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Hide (+1) Skill: Move Silently (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
Last edited by unbongwah; 07-23-2010 at 03:42 PM. Reason: slight change to spell list
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07-24-2010, 08:48 PM #4Community Member
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Thank you very much for your work and reply, unbongwah (i've heard of your bard/fighter/rogue when i came to DDO, really good that someone with your knowledge always takes the time to help newbs like me
)
Based on the build you posted here, i made some personal changes, and came up with a similar build, but changes some feats, spells and the levelling order:
From what i can see:Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Female (12 Ranger \ 8 Bard) Hit Points: 246 Spell Points: 374 BAB: 18\18\23\28\28 Fortitude: 12 Reflex: 19 Will: 9 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 15 20 Dexterity 16 20 Constitution 14 14 Intelligence 12 12 Wisdom 8 8 Charisma 12 14 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 7 21 Concentration 6 25 Hide 7 28 Jump 5 10 Move Silently 7 28 Perform 5 32 Tumble 4 6 Use Magic Device 5 25 Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds Level 2 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Spell (1): Summon Monster I Level 4 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Spell (1): Focusing Chant Level 5 (Ranger) Level 6 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds Spell (2): Blur Level 7 (Bard) Spell (2): Rage Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors Level 8 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Level 9 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Mobility Level 10 (Ranger) Spell (1): Camouflage Spell (1): Jump Spell (1): Longstrider Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing Spell (1): Ram's Might Spell (1): Resist Energy Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I Spell (1): Tumble Level 11 (Ranger) Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant Level 12 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack Level 13 (Bard) Spell (2): Invisibility Spell (3): Haste Spell (3): Displacement Level 14 (Ranger) Level 15 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Spell (2): Barkskin Spell (2): Bear's Endurance Spell (2): Cat's Grace Spell (2): Hold Animal Spell (2): Mass Camouflage Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom Spell (2): Protection From Energy Spell (2): Snare Spell (2): Spike Growth Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II Level 16 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Level 17 (Ranger) Level 18 (Ranger) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Level 19 (Ranger) Spell (3): Neutralize Poison Spell (3): Remove Disease Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III Spell (3): Wild Instincts Level 20 (Ranger) Ability Raise: STR Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Perform II Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
+ Higher BAB than pure bard
+ Access to both bard & ranger buffs (haste/rage/blur/displacement + ram's/energy_prot/barkskin[+5])
+ Hopefully can CC well with songs (fascinate/suggestion/enthrallment) and make use of Wild Empathy (no idea if it's worth something, but seems nice RP-wise))
+ Ability to heal (wands/scrolls and bard spells)
+ If it isn't too gimped, will be awesome to play it.
- Squishy (less than 250HP unbuffed)
- SP seams to be a little too low, even for a "defensive caster" (should i spend AP on Energy enh.?)
- Very weak bard buffs (as expected, not the focus of the build, so i was aware it would be like that)
- Too feat-starved (can only chose 1: PA or IC:Pierce or OTWF. Maybe i should only try this once i can create 32pt humans...)
Knowing it won't be optimal by any means, is it viable?
If someone has any input about any of the 2 builds, i'd appreciate it. Thanks in advanceLast edited by JanusZeal95; 07-24-2010 at 08:51 PM.
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07-24-2010, 09:36 PM #5Founder
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Here's my 12/7/1 Drow Tempest Kensai. I really wanted evasion sooner, but I couldn't see taking another level of rogue when I was going to get it free from ranger though. In the end, I decided to put off kensai and get the ranger levels first.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=261059
If you want a really tough bard, check out my newest build! For a 28pt version, just go with 14 con and 10 cha. You can put a point into dex at level 8, instead of using a tome.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263307
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07-25-2010, 12:12 AM #6Community Member
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Thanks for the reply, i actually saw your Percussionist build before doing my post, vey cool concepts
-> About your Tempest Kensai build, it is very similar to what i had in mind, and it looks good. There's only one slight mistake there (probably happened when you changed the levelling order): your last 5 feats in your post are at lvls 11-12-13-15-18, which would be really good imo, but unfortunately if we leave kensai to the end, they will be at (according to the planner) 12-15-17-18-19. While in the 1st case, we would be missing just OTWF at level 15, in the 2nd case, there's still three feats yet to be unlocked, and we only get them by endgame, which MAY be problematic, especially as i'm f2p, at least for now.
(i'd like to hear if this difference in feat levels actually makes the toon weaker / harder to play before cap or not).
-> As for the bardic toon, i really like its concept, and the fact that it's 12 bard makes bard PrE II's available in the future (if they ever come up), and i think i would be able to afford one +1 tome. As you well said, it's a though battlebard, which has more feats to work with.
From what i can analyse (and i can be completely wrong in this one), that build would, unfortunately, loose most of its potential when "translated" to a drow virt: i'd lose buffed dps of WC and give away 80hp compared to the dwarf version (sitting at 266HP), and would loose the ranger buffs and (to some extent) the stealth skills of the Rgr/Bard route.
I'd win +1toHit/dmg & +20HP (fighter AP), plus access to OTWF & IC, and +1 dmg from song too (which would still be a gimped song). Despite the fact that it's going a little away from my initial idea, is it worth it over 12Rgr/8Brd for the "pointy ear"ers?
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