Guild Renown awards

[Alanim]

I soloed a hard coal chamber yesterday, even got the optional chest(hardest freaking optional ever), got a total of 50 chest renown... and roughly 300-500 monster dropped renown, from 500ish kills.

I think the problem here, might be how "strict" the rules are, for example, Coal Chamber is level 16, and the only time you get the maximum amount of renown is at 16(or lower?). but once you get to level 17, You have a -4% renown penalty.

I think a decent solution to that would be for example.
15 = full renown
16 = full renown
17 = full renown
18 = -2% chance
19 = -5% chance
20 = -10% chance
(this scales like the exp penalty, so it is overall less severe at slightly above over level, but still just as cruel at the end point)


This would help with "end game" renown, since most end game is level 18(non-raids).

Also, 12 man instances are all scaled to pretty high levels, and get people of all levels, It might not be overkill to scale them up to 2 possibly 3 levels for full renown(if possible, else you're going to see ALOT of renownless shroud runs).

Also, if the end reward also scales based upon length/difficulty, turbine, you have to remember, the end reward is always at the same level regardless of which difficulty you do.(change this please ?).

[Rumbaar]

I think the problem here, might be how "strict" the rules are, for example, Coal Chamber is level 16, and the only time you get the maximum amount of renown is at 16(or lower?). but once you get to level 17, You have a -4% renown penalty.

You can run it on Hard or Elite to increase the 100% [20%] renown to levels 17 & 18, but alas L20's still miss out.

But at L20 who runs Vale quests on ingredient farming runs on anything other than Normal? I'm not sure how they'll address this gap for capped toon, but still keep it in line with lower toons that have more quests to do and more an incentive [XP] to do quest on elite.

It seems MadFloyd is actively monitoring it and I hope future tweeks to the system bring them in line to a more fair overall system.

[Alanim]

You can run it on Hard or Elite to increase the 100% [20%] renown to levels 17 & 18, but alas L20's still miss out.

But at L20 who runs Vale quests on ingredient farming runs on anything other than Normal? I'm not sure how they'll address this gap for capped toon, but still keep it in line with lower toons that have more quests to do and more an incentive [XP] to do quest on elite.

It seems MadFloyd is actively monitoring it and I hope future tweeks to the system bring them in line to a more fair overall system.

Level 20's will get screwed from something of this sort no matter what, but we also have quests like amrath, where, even though they're the highest level quest, they're still only level 18, and thus we're getting penalized, vale is under level for a level 20, and so I guess it is right for it to have a penalty.

[charredrex]

I started keeping track of my own personal renown yesterday and added more info on it today.

Since we are getting a change to this I'll keep updating my own so I can go on what's actually going on as opposed to what I'm remembering.

Our Guild was going at a steady pace of a level every other day but has no slowed to a complete crawl and we run a variety of levels and toons and difficulty levels. Can't speak from their experience but here's been my personal experience just bopping around doing our thing yesterday. After reading this thread I can see why I wasn't getting much on day 1, but today really has me baffled.

PREVIOUS PERSONAL DAILY RENOWN - 500-1000 per day over a variety of quests and areas

DAY 1 - 50 total renown (was a light quest day as we were doing several raids and repeating one over and over again to flag Abbot)
---------
Litany of the Dead - 3 runs - Normal level 15 - level 20 character
50 renown from kills in quest on three runs
no pulls from chests

Reaver's Fate - 1 run - Elite level 17 - level 20 character
no renown at all

Twilight Forge - 1 run (not completed) Elite level 13 - level 20 character
no renown at all in any opened chests

DAY 2 - 150 Total renown
----------
Raiding the Giant's Vault - 1 run - Solo level 19 - level 20 character
5 Guild Renown - mob
50 guild renown - chest
50 guild renown - chest

Desecrated Temple of Vol - Elite Level 16 - Level 17 character - long
5 Guild Renown - mob
no renown in chest
no quest end reward

Inferno of the Damned - Elite level 16 - level 17 character - long
40 Guild Renown - mob
no renown in chests
no quest end reward

Orchard Farming Run (within level range) - 5 chests
no renown from chests
no renown from kills

I'm going to keep track of my levels and so on tonight and into the weekend since there is a change coming. Hopefully it'll pick up even just a little bit because right now it's been pretty barren.

[Backley]

You dont think a Guild of 30-40 players hitting Shrouds, Abbots, VoD's, Hounds, on every difficulty is very noteworthy? cause there are a lot of guilds like that. Slightly too big to qualify for any bonus's and not into grinding epic content.

My guild got wacked hard. Yesterday as I noted we did our usual raid tour......... i dontt hink we even made up the daily decay.... not right...

Thanks MadFloyd for taking the time to listen to our feedback and make some adjustments.

I think your example group should get enough from being 30-40 people running raids. Obviously since they aren't, the over-all renown drop rate needs to be adjusted upward (as MadFloyd says they are doing).

I don't think your group of 18-20s should expect to get any/much renown from level 1-15 quests, as a "minimum Renown per quest" idea would get you.

[Rumbaar]

Level 20's will get screwed from something of this sort no matter what, but we also have quests like amrath, where, even though they're the highest level quest, they're still only level 18, and thus we're getting penalized, vale is under level for a level 20, and so I guess it is right for it to have a penalty.

I know L20 get the short end of stick. But if you run a L18 on elite it will now be classed as a L20 quest and renown is at 100% [20%] again.

Who runs multiple runs of L16+ quests on elite though? At L20 most are farm runs on Normal at best

[zorander6]

Just an update for everyone:

We are planning to make a change tomorrow that should address the low number of renown drops from chests.

That won't be the end of it. We'll monitor over the weekend and most likely effect another change on Monday. Other than the very obvious exploit situations, renown was supposed to flow more generously and it's now apparent that it's not working as intended.

Thanks again for all the input, not to mention your patience and support.

Thank you

[Alanim]

I know L20 get the short end of stick. But if you run a L18 on elite it will now be classed as a L20 quest and renown is at 100% [20%] again.

Who runs multiple runs of L16+ quests on elite though? At L20 most are farm runs on Normal at best

Exactly, hard runs are rare, but pushing level 20's to do hard runs is ok, but pushing them to do elite runs for maximum renown is just cruel.

[MadFloyd]

I've noticed Renown lacking on end rewards. I now understand that chests should be dropping less Renown if you're a little over level, but I'm noticing a massive drop in Renown end rewards, which I thought were supposed to be close to 100% of the time (according to Eladrin).

Your observation is correct. End Rewards are not working correctly. Not only are they not showing up most of the time, but when they do show up, they're overly stingy.

Sigh. This will be fixed soon.

[zorander6]

Your observation is correct. End Rewards are not working correctly. Not only are they not showing up most of the time, but when they do show up, they're overly stingy.

Sigh. This will be fixed soon.

Sorry but hopefully you'll find the fix easily. GL

[Rumbaar]

Your observation is correct. End Rewards are not working correctly. Not only are they not showing up most of the time, but when they do show up, they're overly stingy.

Sigh. This will be fixed soon.

Chin up MadFloyd, you can do it!

Hopefully this change you're making will show improvements over the weekend and you'll not have to tweak too much on Monday.

[Impaqt]

I think your example group should get enough from being 30-40 people running raids. Obviously since they aren't, the over-all renown drop rate needs to be adjusted upward (as MadFloyd says they are doing).

I don't think your group of 18-20s should expect to get any/much renown from level 1-15 quests, as a "minimum Renown per quest" idea would get you.

I fail to see the logic behind a l3 character doing Waterworks generating substantially more renown than say a L18 Character doing Von 5/6 on Elite.

[GlorkTheInvader]

Your observation is correct. End Rewards are not working correctly. Not only are they not showing up most of the time, but when they do show up, they're overly stingy.

Sigh. This will be fixed soon.

Out of mere curiosity... what is the current philosophy regarding Renown in "End Reward" lists such as turning in Tome of Untold Legends pages? I noticed when I got a Skiver recently that I had an option to take Heroic Deeds instead of one of the static Tome page rewards, and it gave me a good chuckle. Now obviously, you'd have to be completely insane to turn in multiple million plat's worth of tome pages to get a renown reward, but was that techically WAI?

[Pyromaniac]

Renown should be greater with higher level quests.

Running epic should give substantially more than running lowbie quests, with both at level. The problem is there are a gazillion lowbie chests on some low level quests, and fewer in epics.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I fail to see the logic behind a l3 character doing Waterworks generating substantially more renown than say a L18 Character doing Von 5/6 on Elite.

Waterworks is level 3 and 4 so you are 'at level'. Von 5/6 is 12 on Elite so a L18 character is 6 levels above. MadFloyd has said that your chances of renown start at 20% and then drop by 4% per level you are above, so this is why you won't get any renown. This is the logic. Running quests at level should earn more renown than 'power leveling' renown.

Renown should be greater with higher level quests.

Why? Players running waterworks at level 3 face the same challenges and die just as often (arguably more, due to lack of powerful gear) as level 17 players running Monastery of the Scorpion.

Garth

[OverlordOfRats]

I have a suggestion for the future.

Remove the random amount you get in quest and remove level checks. Make the amount based on quest level. Keep the random chance in chests and add as an end reward choice.

Quest level : Renown
1-4 : 50
5-8 : 150
9-12 : 250
13-16 : 500
17-20 : 1000

This way you'll never get 1000 points from a low level quest or 50 points from a high level. Now I can hear you all getting ready to type "But a 20th level toon shouldn't get any renown from a level 1 quest!". I beg to differ and here is why. Renown is how well you are known through out the land. It is not experience. Running a level 1 quest with a level 20 toon doesn't teach how to be better at your job, but it can get you talked about in the taverns.

An example:

Fritzetta a level 20 Ranger (I wish) runs Durk's over and over looking for Muck and that elusive Muckbane.

Will the bards ever sign about her in the kings court? No
Will the tavern patrons talk about her? Yes

"Look there goes Crazy Fritzetta looking for that poor old Muck again."
"What's up with her hating Muck so much?"
"Well my aunt's, sister's, 2nd nephew's, friend said "Muck ate her cat.""

Next week a level 1 fighter, George, is along.

"Did you see that new guy with Crazy Fritzetta?"
"Yes, I think his name is George."

Both George and Frizetta get talked about. They both gain renown. George learns nothing about being a fighter because Frizetta killed everything. So neither gain experience.

This way the people running low level quest are being talked about in the taverns (50 points). The people running the high level quests are having their tales of valor told to the King (1000 points).

[MadFloyd]

Out of mere curiosity... what is the current philosophy regarding Renown in "End Reward" lists such as turning in Tome of Untold Legends pages? I noticed when I got a Skiver recently that I had an option to take Heroic Deeds instead of one of the static Tome page rewards, and it gave me a good chuckle. Now obviously, you'd have to be completely insane to turn in multiple million plat's worth of tome pages to get a renown reward, but was that techically WAI?

That was a surprise, an artifact of some unusual use of our quest system by a designer some time ago.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

That was a surprise, an artifact of some unusual use of our quest system by a designer some time ago.

it does mean you can turn antique desert tokens in for something useful

Garth

[Emili]

Your observation is correct. End Rewards are not working correctly. Not only are they not showing up most of the time, but when they do show up, they're overly stingy.

Sigh. This will be fixed soon.

I've yet to see an end reward renown from any quest at lvl or above level since the patch...

The 25 account guild system seemed ok at first ... I pulled bout 3000 renown yesterday on my lvl 17-18 alt in the guild "In bad company" in about 45 minutes of play. However, when I got back to Fallen Heroes and played thru helping guildies SoS flag and ToD flag and ran three shrouds, and a hound a VoD and a ToD with them ended the night with ToD - my total renown pulled on those characters was still under 1000 for over six hours of play.

I feel like you're forcing all level 20's to only play epics to get the renown needed to even compensate for decay. If all I'm to do is run epics 99% of the time I may as well leave DDO as I am here for more content than that. I love raids and you've only few bloody raids my levels and I'll be damned if am going to invite to run vod elite every bloody time I run it with some pugs along I've never played with.

I'm sorry your system of accounts also penalizes my older guild because I bloody refuse to drop mia players accounts over the years for when they return I do not want them feeling like I abandoned them for some bloody reward system you put in.... I may suggest a better system for determining such be scaled towards activity within accounts and scaled as such rather than have us monitor our own accounts in guild?

Fallen Heroes has been a DDO guild built from what remained of Fallen Kingdom on Riedra since 14th March, 2006 - Yes some guilds are older and stood the test of time. We've seen our ups and downs and yet stayed loyal and kept it moving. Now you come here with some reward system and because it's named renown and it's perks we;ve it to contend with as I have to explain to newer members why some one month old guild is more renowned or why I will not concede to dropping older members nor why there is a difference between me looking for personable people who are good players rather than players who may just be people.

Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

[dwelsh99]

Just an update for everyone:

We are planning to make a change tomorrow that should address the low number of renown drops from chests.

That won't be the end of it. We'll monitor over the weekend and most likely effect another change on Monday. Other than the very obvious exploit situations, renown was supposed to flow more generously and it's now apparent that it's not working as intended.

Thanks again for all the input, not to mention your patience and support.

Please make them minor tweaks, and see how it goes.

Guild renown should be harder to acquire, than favor, or PP. IMO the hardest to acquire. Keep grinding out of renown, and more of a accomplishment.

Infact I think the percentages you posted are a little high myself, but as an old P&P DM, I would.