More Shroud Lessons with the Doctor

[Samadhi]

Yes, it has been some time, but here are some pointers that have been repeated and apparently still need to be.

1) You do not need DW for fighting Arrae. Ever.

2) Giving **** to your caster for not carrying Wail of the Banshee is beyond foolish. Let me elaborate. Given that Wail is useless in Epic and mediocre at best in Shavarath, many good casters won't be carrying this spell. Enjoy my squelch list though.

3) Advertising for DPS and not accepting rogues - again, not going to work. I understand many newer rogues are too squishy to survive. But so are many new palis, rangers, fighters, and yes even barbarians. Myddo is your friend. Class discrimination is just going to guarantee I don't join your LFM at all - whether it is on my rogue (who can easily main-tank horoth on hard) or on my clerics/bards.

4) If you need more than fire/FoM to fight arrae, you might want to reconsider your gear choices.

And finally, a general rule of thumb for everything. Err towards shutting up first. Even if you *know* everyone out there is dumber than you, even dumb folks might just have that one scrap of knowledge you need to reach enlightenment. Peace.

[tman]

2) Giving **** to your caster for not carrying Wail of the Banshee is beyond foolish. Let me elaborate. Given that Wail is useless in Epic and mediocre at best in Shavarath, many good casters won't be carrying this spell. Enjoy my squelch list though.

I got this the last time I ran the shroud with my caster as I was spec'd for Epic! Amen Brother!!

I probably would have added the spell but was more concerned about not holding up the group as I was one of the last to join the raid. i.e. Wizard class. We did just fine without Wail of the Banshee I might add, but got flak about not having the spell.

[Ethiel]

I dunno I like haste and A wiz cast Rage but I don't "need" them..just makes life less aggravating.

[sephiroth1084]

Don't recall the context, but I mentioned off-handedly in a group that I had completed an elite Shroud before the cap went up in a 14-16 group. Some noob in the group claimed I was full of ****, that it was impossible. Apparently, his reasoning was that he had run a Shroud with some good people (according to him), all level 20s, on normal, and had failed, and that therefore it was impossible for a bunch of 14-16s to have completed it on elite.

I think one of the problems we're having with the influx of new players is that they're making no attempt at learning any of the history of DDO. To them, the game has always been 1-20 with the gear, enhancements and classes we have now. They see things like the Shroud as some great obstacle that requires planets to align in order to be conquered (funny, since that's the premise on the success of Arretrikos...).

I don't know about others, but when I started playing DDO (and started trolling the forums ), I delved into the history of the game a bit: how people were completing VoN on elite when the cap was 10 with under-leveled, under-geared groups vs. what was available when I started (this was actually what had sparked my initial comment).

We were completing the Shroud regularly and with ease with 12-16 groups, with many people without greensteels, without Wail, without Waves of Exhaustion affecting his swing speed, without Mass Protect, without prestige enhancements, without ToD sets, without Hound and VoD items, without DT armor...

It's because people don't know, or comprehend this that Turbine has to dumb the game down for all of the new players.

[Potvin]

axer package please

[gott_ist_tot]

Disclaimer: I've nerver discriminated an arcane without WotB in my Shroud runs. Actually Shroud being pretty easy as it is, can be run without an arcane easily, so lack of this spell is not a real problem.

Come on, wizards?

Isn't the one of the points of being a wizard over sorcerer being able to switch spells? It's not like Meridia Tavern is that far from the raid entrance.

I'm not arguing one can not under any circumstances forget to take WotB before Shroud. I'm arguing for wizards argument "I'm specced for epics" is weak, to put it very mildly.

Heck, I'll check if it's available in Portable Hole and get a stack if it is. I'll gladly hand it over to any wizard who in process of 'speccing for epics' forgot to inscribe it.

[sephiroth1084]

Disclaimer: I've nerver discriminated an arcane without WotB in my Shroud runs. Actually Shroud being pretty easy as it is, can be run without an arcane easily, so lack of this spell is not a real problem.

Come on, wizards?

Isn't the one of the points of being a wizard over sorcerer being able to switch spells? It's not like Meridia Tavern is that far from the raid entrance.

I'm not arguing one can not under any circumstances forget to take WotB before Shroud. I'm arguing for wizards argument "I'm specced for epics" is weak, to put it very mildly.

Heck, I'll check if it's available in Portable Hole and get a stack if it is. I'll gladly hand it over to any wizard who in process of 'speccing for epics' forgot to inscribe it.

Agreed. Half the point of being a wizard vs. a sorc is being able to have exactly the right tool for the job. Feel free to give any wizard of level 17+ a lot of **** for not using Wail.

[kingfisher]

. Err towards shutting up first.

nice

[sigtrent]

4) If you need more than fire/FoM to fight arrae, you might want to reconsider your gear choices.

I think its kind of silly to take an extra 30pts of damage or to break up a nice dps gear set for resist when one of any number of classes can cast it on everyone for fairly minimal mana which won't do them much good in the fight anyhow.

The FoM... I'm not even sure what that's for in shroud to be honest nor which item would handle compensating for it.

DW is usually for the kobold's vorpal and I can say from experience its handy when dealing with him if he gets lucky

[dranreb]

Before Wail came out, I had absolutely no problem being the solo caster in a Shroud run, alternating FoD and PK on the mobs. If you have decent spell pen and enough SP, it's no problem to do it that way. I may have cut it close on SP toward the end at times, but it never caused any practical issues.

I do use Wail today, though I consider it on the border of being overpowered. Yes, I have a few extra SP leftover at the end of part 1, but I wouldn't rebuke a caster for not having it.

[Bobthesponge]

my mantra in the shroud:

"Poison comes in pots"

that is all.

[Gunga]

Who's playing doctor behind the shroud?

[Nyvn]

I think its kind of silly to take an extra 30pts of damage or to break up a nice dps gear set for resist when one of any number of classes can cast it on everyone for fairly minimal mana which won't do them much good in the fight anyhow.

The FoM... I'm not even sure what that's for in shroud to be honest nor which item would handle compensating for it.

DW is usually for the kobold's vorpal and I can say from experience its handy when dealing with him if he gets lucky

I think he means to say the only buffs you need cast on you are Resist Fire, and Freedom of Movement.

[Potvin]

another note: If someone accidentally jumps into part 5 of the Shroud, without allowing everyone to loot a chest in part 4, the correct response is not yelling 'd0uchebag' into chat.

[Ranmaru2]

I think its kind of silly to take an extra 30pts of damage or to break up a nice dps gear set for resist when one of any number of classes can cast it on everyone for fairly minimal mana which won't do them much good in the fight anyhow.

The FoM... I'm not even sure what that's for in shroud to be honest nor which item would handle compensating for it.

DW is usually for the kobold's vorpal and I can say from experience its handy when dealing with him if he gets lucky

Unless the paladin is using all of his divine mights, he can pop off the cha 6 cloak for a GFR cloak (unless its a protection 5 cloak that is keeping the person from being hit by arrae much at all, you can still switch this off for a GFR cloak).

FoM is for him casting mass hold person - and Kundarak boots will suffice as well as ANY WARFORGED REALIZING YOU'RE IMMUNE TO HOLD

And yeah I've been vorp'd by the kobold and so has Dreadbringer! It was awesome to watch!

@Sam - As much as I know about bringing a "different" set of spells for epic, I'd have to wonder about why you can't just set Wail for Pt I then return to norm spell selection after? Usually you're shrining before Pt II while everyone jumps into pt II anyway, so why not pull a switcheroo? Then again I know how much you forget stuff

I do use Wail today, though I consider it on the border of being overpowered.

And how powerful is Wail supposed to be? It's a lvl 9 ****ing spell for crying out loud! In what world are level 9 spells supposed to be equal to 7s or even lvl 4 insta-death spells??? Lvl 9s are supposed to be just under epic spells yet still deadly enough as to be world changing.

[Maxallu]

Yes, it has been some time, but here are some pointers that have been repeated and apparently still need to be.

1) You do not need DW for fighting Arrae. Ever.

2) Giving **** to your caster for not carrying Wail of the Banshee is beyond foolish. Let me elaborate. Given that Wail is useless in Epic and mediocre at best in Shavarath, many good casters won't be carrying this spell. Enjoy my squelch list though.

3) Advertising for DPS and not accepting rogues - again, not going to work. I understand many newer rogues are too squishy to survive. But so are many new palis, rangers, fighters, and yes even barbarians. Myddo is your friend. Class discrimination is just going to guarantee I don't join your LFM at all - whether it is on my rogue (who can easily main-tank horoth on hard) or on my clerics/bards.

4) If you need more than fire/FoM to fight arrae, you might want to reconsider your gear choices.

And finally, a general rule of thumb for everything. Err towards shutting up first. Even if you *know* everyone out there is dumber than you, even dumb folks might just have that one scrap of knowledge you need to reach enlightenment. Peace.

I am really surprised that any shrouds get completed without your sage advice or direct involvement.

[Eladiun]

Agreed. Half the point of being a wizard vs. a sorc is being able to have exactly the right tool for the job. Feel free to give any wizard of level 17+ a lot of **** for not using Wail.

Even worse...how does the specced for Amrath and epic argument even fly. There are 8 level 9 spells in DDO Wizards get 5 at 20 what the heck else are you memorizing in place of Wail on a Wizard?

Dominate Monster
Energy Drain
Hold Monster, Mass
Meteor Swarm
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Power Word: Kill
Summon Monster IX
Wail of the Banhsee

...that list pretty much sucks. Energy Drain is a must so is Mass Hold in my book beyond that I see no reason not to have Wail. It's not like you are spoiling for excellent choices and situationally it's a great spell.

[Samadhi]

Perhaps I should clarify since like 8 people are on the "just switch back afterwards" bandwagon, that both casters in said-group were Sorcs, not wizards.

[Eladiun]

4) If you need more than fire/FoM to fight arrae, you might want to reconsider your gear choices.

I like me some GH, Haste, and Rage as well.

[Ranmaru2]

Perhaps I should clarify since like 8 people are on the "just switch back afterwards" bandwagon, that both casters in said-group were Sorcs, not wizards.

Perhaps that should have been specified, since I've seen you playing Trypt so much nowadays versus Nix and Ani