Rangers: Ranged Damage

[yangmo3]

I still don't understand... Why rangers have the same DPS (Basic ranged attacks) as other classes with the same weapon...

[Docta_PoPo]

* cough * Bow strength *cough*

[dkyle]

They generally deal more damage with a bow than other classes, thanks to bow strength, manyshot, improved precise shot, and if they're Arcane Archers, the various imbues that provides, especially Slaying arrows.

A current exploit/bug aside, that damage is still less than melee DPS.

[kaelis]

Troll bait. But I'll bite.


Short answer, they don't.

[PopeJual]

Um... they don't.

They have more melee DPS against their favored enemies than most characters.

They have less melee DPS than Rogues have against enemies that lack fort and which have vulnerable to sneak attack damage.

They have less melee DPS against most enemies than a Barbarian when both are raid buffed.

They have less melee DPS against Evil Outsiders than a KotC Paladin.

They have more melee DPS than a Wizard who is using appropriate melee weapons because he ran out of/is conserving spell points.

They have more DPS when using a bow than any other character that hasn't at least splashed Ranger.

[toughguyjoe]

They have more DPS when using a bow than any other character that hasn't at least splashed Ranger.

I'd like to see the calcs on a Ranger versus an Elf Fighter with AA and Kensai.

[Glenalth]

The Kensai is higher damage per shot with the drawback that your typical firing speed is slower. A Fighter haste boost just before each manyshot ramps them a bit ahead for a while.

Last time I ran the numbers it seems like it would get 1-2% more damage per shot vs what would be a favored enemy and around 15% more on other monsters. Could be faulty memory though, it's been a few months.

[PopeJual]

I'd like to see the calcs on a Ranger versus an Elf Fighter with AA and Kensai.

I went to look in DDOwiki because this seemed like an obvious answer since Fighters can't get Bow Strength. Just the fact that you would even bring this up made me question my assumption, though, so I checked.

Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged, Base Attack Bonus +4, and one of: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or Weapon Specialization: Ranged

...so I guess my "obvious" answer might not be guaranteed since Fighters can, indeed, take Bow Strength. I still think that an AA Ranger 20 will have greater DPS than a Ftr 18/something 2 (I assume that it would be 18/2 rather than 12/6/2, but I don't know if that's a valid assumption), but I don't know enough about calculating rates of fire to be able to successfully make that calculation.

[SolarDawning]

I went to look in DDOwiki because this seemed like an obvious answer since Fighters can't get Bow Strength. Just the fact that you would even bring this up made me question my assumption, though, so I checked.

Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged, Base Attack Bonus +4, and one of: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or Weapon Specialization: Ranged

...so I guess my "obvious" answer might not be guaranteed since Fighters can, indeed, take Bow Strength. I still think that an AA Ranger 20 will have greater DPS than a Ftr 18/something 2 (I assume that it would be 18/2 rather than 12/6/2, but I don't know if that's a valid assumption), but I don't know enough about calculating rates of fire to be able to successfully make that calculation.

The elven fighter kensai/AA would have bow strength without having to jump through feat hoops for it, as they would have splashed one level of ranger. Something like Fighter 18, Ranger 1, Wizard 1 (To qualify for one of AA's enhancement pre-reqs).

[Wolvator_Dracutus]

A current exploit/bug aside

What Exploit/Bug would that be?

Just curious...

[Antheal]

The elven fighter kensai/AA would have bow strength without having to jump through feat hoops for it, as they would have splashed one level of ranger. Something like Fighter 18, Ranger 1, Wizard 1 (To qualify for one of AA's enhancement pre-reqs).

Which is exactly the character I've recently started.
1 Ranger for free Bow Strength (and the ability to use Cure Wands if needed).
1 Wizard for free Mental Toughness (one of the pre-reqs for A.A.)
and I'll be taking 18 levels of Fighter for Kensei Longbow Mastery III, complete with every bow-based feat available such as Manyshot, (Improved) Precise Shot, and all the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation feats for Ranged Weapons.

[Xeraphim]

What Exploit/Bug would that be?

Just curious...

It's a hidden Known Issue.

As far as Ranged DPS, Rangers get the shaft, if you know what I mean.

Rogue Mechanic now has pretty respectable DPS with a Repeater. Get close and that DPS ramps up significantly with Sneak Attacks.

Bow Kensai AAs hit harder on everything but favored enemies, and even on those they are almost neck and neck. A Fighter should not outdo a Ranger at Ranged.

Rangers have been the b*tch class since Launch, due to some rather extreme Dev Hatred of the combat style.

[Sabvre]

Rangers also get all the twf feats for free... and can therefore um switch to melee when necessary?

[bandyman1]

Which is exactly the character I've recently started.
1 Ranger for free Bow Strength (and the ability to use Cure Wands if needed).
1 Wizard for free Mental Toughness (one of the pre-reqs for A.A.)
and I'll be taking 18 levels of Fighter for Kensei Longbow Mastery III, complete with every bow-based feat available such as Manyshot, (Improved) Precise Shot, and all the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation feats for Ranged Weapons.

The problem is that Favored Enemy (with enhancements) + Ram's Might more than makes up for the Kensei/specialization bonus damage even with Power Surge active. It could be argued that this is only against favored enemies, but having 5 types to choose from + the means to swap feats, and the lack of varity of endgame mobs that this game has continously shown, makes this a moot point by endgame; The ranger will have every enemy type in the content he/she is running on a consistant basis as a favored enemy.

The fighter gains +1 crit range.

The ranger gains capstone attack speed.

Fighter's haste boost works with ranged, but it's not a static boost like the ranger capstone. Then add to that, the fact that the Kensei won't have 20 bab ( have to splash a spellcasting class ) for an even bigger drop in attack rate.

I don't know the figures ( actual number of attacks ) involved, and I don't claim to; Perhaps someone else who's done the calcs can post some info here???

But given the above, it seems to me to boil down to capstone + bab-based attack speed vs. a limited clickie boost and +1 threat range.

I'd be interested in seeing someone do the actual calcs.

My gut tells me that the ranger wins.

But I could be wrong /shrugs.