Effective & Fun Classes to Duo

[Barrelhouse]

First of all, thank you to all the people posting here. These forums have been a wealth of information for the new DDO-er. Plus, these are definitely the friendliest MMO forums I have been on, which has motivated me to unstealth from my fortress (well, condo...) of solitude.

I am looking for builds which would duo well together, mostly focusing on end-game content. I have spent weeks reading the forums and am getting close, but I haven't yet found the perfect match. I am going to be duo-ing with my wife, who is a first time MMO-er, and so we plan to take our time and won't be grouping outside of the duo (no one will have the patience to endure our slow pace). However, I would eventually like to be able to grind for some of the top (or near-top) gear together as a duo, if that is possible.

One limiting factor is that my wife is subject to motion sickness and will be new to the whole WASD/targeting/clicking challenge. Therefore she would probably prefer to limit her movement while in combat and not have to chase down mobs and rotate the camera more than necessary. I also want her first online gaming experience to be fun, so it would be ideal for her character to be more than a pure healer/buffer.

The build that I am leaning towards for her at the moment is an Elf AA Bard/Rng/Rog 16/2/2 -- this would allow her to contribute some ranged DPS plus buffing/healing plus acceptable Rogue skills. This would also allow my character to focus on tanking and DPS. We have access to all races and characters and 32 pt builds (broke down and used the store to save time). I would prefer to not use WF characters for a variety of reasons.

So, if Elf AA Bard/Rng/Rog 16/2/2 is viable for her, what would be a good build for my character? Pure Paladin or Fighter would seem to work, but I'm not sure if going more DPS or Tanky would be better for the toughest end game content. I'm not even sure that these are especially good classes to duo together, so I am eager to hear about other ideas.

If anyone has any specific builds to point to, please do. If not, I can work them up myself once I decide on the level breakdown and main focus of each build.

Of course, I am assuming that she will enjoy the game, or my character will end up going solo...

[English_Warrior]

If you go with the bard/rog/ranger make sure that you max her UMD...you will need all the healing you can get...especially if you go pure fighter.

[Goldeneye]

Google: "Best dup classes site:forums.ddo.com"

This question gets asked every week :P

[szaijan]

I do a lot of duo'ing, and my favorite combos are Ranger/Arcane (Sorcerer or Wizard), and Ranger/Ranger. In a fixed duo, I'd favor a Ranger/Wiz-Rog2 multi-class group. However, such a duo is more targeted at the higher levels (say 9th and beyond) and is a bit advanced for new players. Replacing the Wiz-Rog2 with a Bard/Rog2 is another option. Bards heavily benefit two weapon fighting Rangers, but again, a Bard can be a hard character to get right and you'll miss the arcane caster at higher levels.

To be most potent at low levels with little gear, a Paladin/Favored Soul or Cleric duo would probably be a better route. High AC is quite potent below 8th level or so, and arcane casters don't come into their own until higher levels.

[Barrelhouse]

Google: "Best dup classes site:forums.ddo.com"

This question gets asked every week :P

Yes, I Googled that when I first started and searched/browsed these forums pretty deep already, which is how I got this far. The problem is that I have not yet found the ideal solution for my situation, and I thought that after narrowing it down and explaining my parameters, that I would get a few more specific answers.

[thepizzamn]

I would recommend pure bard for your wife because they can heal and buff but they also have some combat skills and spells (mostly sonic spells that stun ppl) but if you multiclass you wont get all the best ability's of rouge or ranger. You wont unlock ranger spells or even evasion or greater evasion which is the most useful feat in the game next to blocking arrows. For your char i would recommend a pure paladin because they can heal and buff to an extent but they also can use wands and it is extremely useful to have two healers. You can also switch between a longsword and shield or a great axe or great sword. It would also pay to have a good high level guild like epitaph (if ur building these chars on kiber) That way you will get airship buffs and those are very useful if there are going to be few ppl in your party. I hope this helps.

[kgun78]

My wife and I duo with a tempest ranger 18/1/1 rng/ftr/rogue and a battle cleric 19/1 clr/ftr. She plays the ranger and I the battle cleric. We'd have no problems duoing any dungeons, even the extreme challenge ones. Also with me being a cleric, and her part rogue we have no problems finding groups.

I know you are leaning more towards a bard, but she might enjoy playing a cleric. Clerics are a lot more than just healbots as they are in other MMOs, they can CC, melee, and have a good variety of offensive spells. It also probably drops down the MMO learning curve some, since clerics can make "dungeoning" easier.

The builds were taken from new player build guide in new player forums. I modified the human tempest ranger build to have more int (14), so my wife could disable locks and traps, and keep a high UMD, and took combat expertise feat instead of kopesh.

[Barrelhouse]

I would recommend pure bard for your wife because they can heal and buff but they also have some combat skills and spells (mostly sonic spells that stun ppl) but if you multiclass you wont get all the best ability's of rouge or ranger. You wont unlock ranger spells or even evasion or greater evasion which is the most useful feat in the game next to blocking arrows. For your char i would recommend a pure paladin because they can heal and buff to an extent but they also can use wands and it is extremely useful to have two healers. You can also switch between a longsword and shield or a great axe or great sword. It would also pay to have a good high level guild like epitaph (if ur building these chars on kiber) That way you will get airship buffs and those are very useful if there are going to be few ppl in your party. I hope this helps.

Yes, we are on Khyber actually, but I doubt we will end up joining a guild. Pure Paladin does sound good for the extra healing and versatility. I wanted to be able to cover the rogue skills/UMD with her character, plus she gets evasion with Rog2. And since it would be multiclass anyway the Rng2 sounded good to augment her ranged effectiveness (see OP for reasons why she would prefer melee over ranged).

But your suggestion for pure Brd is more than valid as well, and something I need to consider. If I do that, I would probably want Rogue skills on my character.

My wife and I duo with a tempest ranger 18/1/1 rng/ftr/rogue and a battle cleric 19/1 clr/ftr.

Sounds like another excellent combination that covers all the bases. I will look at both of those builds. Thanks!

[shablala]

18wiz/2rogue + 20Cleric. You will be able to duo Raids even.

[Phidius]

If you're trying to make her first gaming experience fun, I'd say go WF Barb20 for her, and WF Wiz17/Rog2/Barb1 for you. Being a cleric can be stressful if you ever decide to join other groups (or accept others into your group).

1. She can be the star of the show, with you supporting her. I'm no expert on Barb, but AFAIK there's only 3 things she'll need to do...
a. Click "Rage" every once in a while
b. Click "Intimidate" if she doesn't want to chase stuff (you can take care of the stuff that runs away from her)
c. Right click to kill

2. You can take a more active role in disabling traps, keeping the 2 of you repaired, softening up the mobs with Crowd Control, kite the more lethal dangers, etc...

Both of you having Barbarian movement speed and sprint boosts will be helpful, too.

If you're F2P, I strongly urge you to purchase the WF race - 32 point builds are a nice touch, but not required by any means.

[Barrelhouse]

If you're trying to make her first gaming experience fun, I'd say go WF Barb20 for her, and WF Wiz17/Rog2/Barb1 for you. Being a cleric can be stressful if you ever decide to join other groups (or accept others into your group).

That would normally be a great suggestion, but unfortunately, due to her motion sickness and the challenge of moving while fighting (mentioned in the OP), I don't think melee is a good option for her. The mobs move around too much, and she will have to rotate the camera more than a ranged character would. Also, we would prefer to not use WF characters if at all possible, although we do have access to them and 32 builds too.

For my solo character, I have studied your WF Wiz17/Rog2/Barb1 build, and it has greatly helped his early evolution, so thank you very much for sharing.

[unbongwah]

This question gets asked every week :P

Probably because there's no definitive answer. If there was, we could just sticky a single thread and call it a day.

As it happens, I've been working on a rogue 2 / ranger 2 / bard 16 AA build. Still a work in progress, but it's got decent trap skills, solid ranged DPS, good mix of buffs, and CC songs from Virtuoso. Not much of a healer, though - no metamagics or enhs to boost its cures.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 490 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 21
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    20
Dexterity            17                    20
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    10
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         3                    24
Diplomacy             5                    26
Disable Device        6                    23
Haggle                5                     8
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  6                    10
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             7                    14
Perform               n/a                  28
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    24
Spot                  3                    13
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                4                     6
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (2): Heroism


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Rage
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Spell (4): Break Enchantment


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (1): Grease
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

EDIT: for you, I would consider some sort of battle cleric: melee DPS, heals & buffs, enough tanking abilities to keep mobs off your wife's AA.

[ArichValtrahn]

Is this thread topic a trick question? AA isnt viable for anyone.

[Barrelhouse]

As it happens, I've been working on a rogue 2 / ranger 2 / bard 16 AA build. Still a work in progress, but it's got decent trap skills, solid ranged DPS, good mix of buffs, and CC songs from Virtuoso. Not much of a healer, though - no metamagics or enhs to boost its cures..

The build looks great, thanks for posting it in so much detail (+1 rep)!

Do you think we can get away with less healing than a Cleric for my character, like a Paladin? It would be easier to hold aggro and have higher DPS with a Paladin, but if it would seriously hamper our overall capabilties at end-game, I'll keep looking for the ideal Battle Cleric build.

[flynnjsw]

The build looks great, thanks for posting it in so much detail (+1 rep)!

Do you think we can get away with less healing than a Cleric for my character, like a Paladin? It would be easier to hold aggro and have higher DPS with a Paladin, but if it would seriously hamper our overall capabilties at end-game, I'll keep looking for the ideal Battle Cleric build.

The problem with a Paladin (and this is coming from a Paladin player who has done the duo thing) is that while you can wand whip and spot heal, you really don't have enough healing to keep the both of you up in long engagements.

[szaijan]

Is this thread topic a trick question? AA isnt viable for anyone.

My most frequent duo'ing partner is an AA, who travels with my tempest ranger. We make an excellent team, IMO, with mutual healing plus the flexibility to switch back and forth between melee, range, and a combination of the two. DPS is excellent for non-twinked, non-raid geared characters. However... I really recommend that new players tread carefully with ranged combat. Until the AA learns to pull aggro TO the melee, instead of running away, and the melee learns never to chase mobs which are pursuing the AA, it will be quite frustrating.

[Phidius]

That would normally be a great suggestion, but unfortunately, due to her motion sickness and the challenge of moving while fighting (mentioned in the OP), I don't think melee is a good option for her...

Yeah, I saw that in the Op, but apparently I missed a lot of other stuff (like all races, classes, and 32-point builds)

It's been my experience that melee tends to stand still, while ranged has to run and jump around to avoid getting smashed.

Whichever route you pick, you've already won because she's playing with you!

[Barrelhouse]

That makes sense about the necessity for ranged characters to move around a lot too. And the aggro problems that szaijan mentioned will surely come into play. Also, a Cleric or FvS should greatly enhance survivability,

There have been tons of great ideas and combinations, so thank you to everyone taking the time to post them. I'll keep studying the forums, and yes, I am very happy that she has decided to give it a try. I'll probably just end up asking her what her fantasy alter ego would be, and then choose my build to complement hers.

[domecek1]

Pure WF fav soul for you speced on greatswords and foucsed on str(any master of blades from fav souls forum). And for her anything what she want to do. Good would be pure wiz drow(pale master focused). I know, she is begginer, but if you are sitting near her, when you playing games, there shouldnt be any problem...) because in low and mid game owning fire wall and blade barriers and at the end game she can instakill almost everything with necro spells and you will be battlefield almost immortal beast. + divine and arcane buffs. Yep, you cant disable traps, but who cares with protections from enregies and resists...) A point is, that you have to have something, what will be able to save your butts in hard situations. And casters arent so hard to play as healers or bards.)


EDIT: mb better will be sorc for her than wiz - not many spells, many spell points and UMD.

[unbongwah]

Do you think we can get away with less healing than a Cleric for my character, like a Paladin?

The problem, as flynnsynwjklw pointed out, is that paladins don't have enough healing to be self-sufficient, let alone keep a party going. And while bards can be pretty decent healers, the build I posted is not; there just isn't room for, say, Empower Heal and a bunch of healing enhs, IMHO. You can try to make do with cleric hirelings and/or cure wands; but based on my duoing experiences, I prefer to have one character who is a capable healer in their own right, just to save on healing expenses.

If you were both Warforged, then one of you could play a rogue / wizard who handles traps, buffs, and repairs, so the other could go pure DPS. But you expressed a preference not to use WF, so...well, here we are.