Sorc or Wiz?

[Spisey]

overkill... not even star would do that.


Wiz>wiz>wiz>>fvs>fvs>fvs>sorc>sorc>sorc.

HEY!

If/when I finally TR I want to see a 50 cha (even short time, i.e. House pots) on Xxthermitexx! 42 Standing cha with the meager +1 ship buff and a +4 cha and completionist just seems too uber an a WF Sorc.

Sorc btw so as to not completely derail this thread...

[kaelis]

HEY!

If/when I finally TR I want to see a 50 cha (even short time, i.e. House pots) on Xxthermitexx! 42 Standing cha with the meager +1 ship buff and a +4 cha and completionist just seems too uber an a WF Sorc.

Sorc btw so as to not completely derail this thread...

Heh. I think i got to a 44 standing in my second life, so goodluck.

[Sweyn]

HEY!

If/when I finally TR I want to see a 50 cha (even short time, i.e. House pots) on Xxthermitexx! 42 Standing cha with the meager +1 ship buff and a +4 cha and completionist just seems too uber an a WF Sorc.

Sorc btw so as to not completely derail this thread...

Myddo my TR'd sorc Sowen

I had to "smile for the camara" hehe

[Vengenance]

if one will do multiple reincarnation and end up as a wiz, it stupid for not to take at least one sorc past life for the active past life feat.

:

IMO the sorc past life feat pretty much sucks on a Wizzard as the DC is Charisma based. I have done past lives as a Wiz and Sorc, currently working on Wiz again and from my experience the Wiz past life feat is great, but the sorc one pretty much sucks since the save is based upon your charisma. I get nothing but saves at level 17 except for on low reflex save mobs. The sorc past life feat would be great on a sorc, but as a wizzrad, not so good.

My final build will be Wizzy x3, Sorc x1, with end build being a Sorc. Oh and for those who think spell pen is over-kill, you have to realize that by taking the past life feats you don't have room for Spell Pen I and Great Spell Pen Feats. You need at least two wizzard lives to cover both active feats and still have reasonable spell pen. A third past life gets you a little bonus spell pen and/or frees up the last tier Spell pen enhancement.

[darkforest]

The pure Wizard:

-Lots of skill points to spend!
but only two are class skills, and repair is unneeded by most. Thus you end up with many half-@ssed skill ranks nothing to write home about.

-Can change spells at will!
Yes some quests are made easier with targeted spells, and the obligatory WF healing can be fun. But some spells just dominate too much in most quests. If only the ability to swap in obsolete or underpowered spells is a bragging right.

-Better CC?
Correct me. It's rather frivolous considering the first 19 levels your DC is the same as the sorcerer unless necro focused.

-Five free feats!
It can be fun with multiple SF schools and non-caster feats. If the typical sorcerer (and offensive caster cleric) setups can cherry-pick the best seven or eight feats and excel...

-Gracefully slow casting motion!
Twice the casting time of sorcerers = twice likely to fail concentration check.
And unless you know when the next horde of baddies appear, your postmortem/post-battle Glitterdust or the like is mere confetti.

-Non-supersized spell points!
Perhaps like a smaller engine, it's good for the environment.



Intentional to raise a stink here, in the hope more goodies can be offered to the Wizard to convince those who ran-off with Sorcerers to come back.

[Entelech]

The Sorcerer Past Life feat may not do much elemental damage, but you don't really care about that.

The (passive feat) bonus to Evocation DC's is nice, and the (active) feat gives you everything that Mental Toughness or Improved Mental Toughness does, along with a free effect to swat bats out of the sky on Korthos.

[Dylvish]

Flip a coin.

On one hand, the 'head' has a more round-ish shape and may show the currency value. On the other hand, the 'tail' may show a picture that is iconic to the country the coin belongs to.

The point is, you can talk about which sides of a coin is better but you'll only end up with an answer that neither is better than the other. What matters is what YOU think is better and weigh it out yourself because everyone will have differing opinions.

Lol well done. +1

[Sorwen]

With the new changes the ability to pick up Archmage and Arcane Spell ability mean it is Wizard.

[Thrudh]

-Can change spells at will!
Yes some quests are made easier with targeted spells, and the obligatory WF healing can be fun. But some spells just dominate too much in most quests.

Mostly true, but as new spells get added, this will swing more and more to the wizard... I think we need about 1 more good situational spell in each spell level, and wizard and sorc will be more balanaced here...

Leveling is a wizard is easier I think... Less SP, but you get your spells quicker, and you have more slots, and you can change spells at will. I know I like swapping between banishment and hold person, mass depending on the quest... A sorc in my mid-late level range (13-16) is less effective in most quests...

Even at 20, sorcs have enough spell slots to get all the standard "good" spells but not the situational spells... Now those situational spells may only be useful in 20% of the quests, and the sorc can do just fine with the brute force method anyway.

But my wizard always has the right spell. And as new spells get added I think it will be even nicer to be a wizard.

-Better CC?
Correct me. It's rather frivolous considering the first 19 levels your DC is the same as the sorcerer unless necro focused.

Read the quote below, Five free feats means the wizard usually has more spell focus feats... which equals DC. Also, have you heard about the Archmage and Pale Master PrEs? Also more DC. Sorcs do damage, Wizards have higher DCs, long before level 19

-Five free feats!
It can be fun with multiple SF schools and non-caster feats. If the typical sorcerer (and offensive caster cleric) setups can cherry-pick the best seven or eight feats and excel...

Well, there are more than 8 good casting feats... There may be a core 6 or so that top the rest, but the second-tier feats do make a difference, and sorcs can't afford the second-tier feats... Past life feats can also be much more easily added to a wizard.

-Gracefully slow casting motion!
Twice the casting time of sorcerers = twice likely to fail concentration check.
And unless you know when the next horde of baddies appear, your postmortem/post-battle Glitterdust or the like is mere confetti.

True. Casting speed is definitely the sorc's big advantage.

-Non-supersized spell points!
Perhaps like a smaller engine, it's good for the environment.

Sad to admit this, but I just buy pots from the DDO store... I try to play smart and not use them, but I always have them available... Plus, with the Archmage PrE, spell points are less of an advantage for sorcs.

Intentional to raise a stink here, in the hope more goodies can be offered to the Wizard to convince those who ran-off with Sorcerers to come back.

Oooh.. maybe I should have played along... He's right, devs, wizards are terrible... We need more buffs to bring us closer to equal with the mighty sorc!

[lvl20wizzyman]

sorcerers r00l, wizards drule.

actually it depends on what you want, and in my opinion wizards are the way to go, they are perfect for first time arcane casters (like myself), and WF-warforged are a great race for them, if you make a wizard google what a good build is there are sure to be plenty of WF builds out there, but some human ones as well, and if you choose to TR, TR 5 times, then TR the 6th time into a sorcerer if you have a idea of what spells you would like to have

[Jakarr]

I'v always been a fan of sorc's but with AM/PM and the extra feats Atm With end game gear, all the sp goodies and all that Jazz, A wizard pulls it out.

A sorc has 2 things over a Wizard More sp(which at higher lvls there is a difference but not a huge one like in lower lvls) and the casting spd/recast spd(this is why I still have a sorc but thats b/c of my builds diff story) Pure vs Pure a Wizard with the goodies will have a much better DC and for whats its worth more spells( <shrug> ).

End of the day play what ya like.

Another thought is DC vs Nukage

Both classes do there job but a Sorc is little more geared toward tossing out a ton of polar rays+Delayed Fireballs/Chain/Ball Lightning while a Wizard has a little more advantage towards the DC based spells.

Sorc=Run and Gun
Wizard=Tactics

Both do each great just one does it a little better.

[Doxmaster]

Flip a coin.

On one hand, the 'head' has a more round-ish shape and may show the currency value. On the other hand, the 'tail' may show a picture that is iconic to the country the coin belongs to.

The point is, you can talk about which sides of a coin is better but you'll only end up with an answer that neither is better than the other. What matters is what YOU think is better and weigh it out yourself because everyone will have differing opinions.

Yes. Nice job ninja'ing me.

Which is better overall?

No. Just no.

This is an impossible question. One can ask "Which is bigger, the moon or a dog?" and get an answer because the term 'bigger' is used. You could have just as easily asked us "Which is better? The moon, or a dog?" and we would just have to list things and hope you are satisfied.

Tell us what "better" pertains to, and we will be able to answer you; otherwise, this is just troll-fodder for the eternal wiz/sorc battle everyone loves arguing.

Do you want natural fast casting, spell points that last alonger, spell variety, full meta magic AND normal feats, easy UMD, plenty of skill points, easy spell DC and Spell penetration maximization, not needing to buy stacks and stacks of scrolls to cast spells from, needing stacks of scrolls to learn spells from, extremely high natural nuking ability, pets, free spells, Undead forms, Easy intimidate maximization... Its a large list, and I'm still missing important abilities others might notice.

So...provide and operational definition of "Overall best." or my answer is Bard.

[Crystalizer]

years ago i was playing a drow sorcerer, to me it was the best arcane at that time
now to me this is definitely warforged wizards who are the master arcane class
sorcerers lack of feats now compared to wizards, even if you TRx3 as a wizard and then TR as a sorcerer you wont have enough feats to reach the maximum arcane power

[Anneliese]

I would say that without PREs, both are balanced.


But a Enchantment Archmage can be very nice for Epics (Mass Hold) and the Lich form of the pale master is nice too.

[Guilllotine]

I would say that without PREs, both are balanced.


But a Enchantment Archmage can be very nice for Epics (Mass Hold) and the Lich form of the pale master is nice too.

I totally agree here, but I will give my reasoning of the differences like everyone else.

Sorc = Quantity
Wizard = Quality

"Currently with U7" answer is Wizard

I have both, but with the new PREs, wiz definitely pulls ahead with "Epics".
As a matter of fact, I have created a build, with help from the community, that takes advantages of BOTH Pale Master and Archmage (The true versatility of a wizard)! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it
Here we are http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=283894

[Bobthesponge]

why not do both? with a 10 wiz/10 sorc you can have tons of SP and faster casting while also having access to all the spells and the ability to swap at shrines.

[Sweyn]

why not do both? with a 10 wiz/10 sorc you can have tons of SP and faster casting while also having access to all the spells and the ability to swap at shrines.

Awesome idea

[Asirin]

Wizard=scalpel,Sorc=Sledgehammer.Either one can be amazing with the right player moving the mouse.

[painindaguild]

i am not saying that wizard is a bad choice, because they can reach a very good damage per spell as well, and very decent cds for spells, and wont face half as many problems as the sorc towards end game, but sorcerer hability to cast stuff faster, with loads of damage, and cast it twice as many times, or more, than a wizard, because a sorcerer mana pool takes far more time to end, have a heavy impact on mid to end game.

if parties are looking for DPS do they display the sorc/wiz icon? NO

[Anneliese]

why not do both? with a 10 wiz/10 sorc you can have tons of SP and faster casting while also having access to all the spells and the ability to swap at shrines.

I prefer wiz 6/ sorc 7/bard 7, Half-Orc, wisdom maxed with throwing weapons.