useless after 5 or 6 spells?

[danzig138]

An Enchantment based caster can often make most of the mobs kill themselves by fighting each other. Takes a bit of time, but is a very effective kill / sp ratio.

This is my favorite tactic with my bard. That and blinding the ones I can't charm.

For the OP: Pretty much what's been said, except by that one guy. You're going to run across a boatload of wands - use them. With my wiz, I buff myself a bit, and use a cursespewer and improved destruction pair of weapons and I stab things and jump around alot. Those weapons make it easier for the melee guys to kill the bad guys, and then I toss out the CC and WoF for the large groups, and Big Bads. It's been said that I'm awfully stabby for a wizard. There are several ways you can contribute to a group while conserving spell points.

[rjohnson.linuxuser]

Casters, sorcs included, are not a waste.

Crowd Control is a part of your arsenal, don't ignore it, but you can do decent damage on your own(no Carlll, the original post was not about nuking, but being out of mana after 5 or 6 spells and usefullness of sorcs).

Casters are not for everybody.

A well played caster is just as important as trapmonkeys, tanks, and healers - everyone has a role.

[richieelias27]

Some mindless drivel regarding Sorc DPS from the perspective of one who has not played one to cap.

D.P.S.
Damage Per Second.
Amount of damage in one second.

If you can find a class that can hit the same massive numbers in a short period of time that a sorc can by stacking dots and alternating direct damage spells, please enlighten me. Sorc DPS is for bosses and large pulls only. This is not to be wasted on trivial small trash mob pulls or you will be out of mana after the first two pulls.

Sustained damage.
Amount of damage over a long period of time.

This is what people most often truly mean when they say "Need DPS". This is a misuse of the phrase on their part, and is why you rarely see "Need DPS, bring your sorc" Melee classes excel at this. No mana = A much higher sustained damage, and caster classes fall more and more behind the longer a given fight is drawn out.

Conclusion - if you want to completely mess something up with a name over its head or eliminate large groups of baddies, Sorc has no equal. If you want to be that guy that takes a whack at every single object in the dungeon, you might want to roll a barbarian.

However, to say that Sorcerers cant kill things is a complete falsehood.

Oh, and devils do not fail only on a 2. On elite they do, yes, but not normal/hard. Obviously on elite I'm using symbol of stunning, web, waves, Prismatic spray, etc.

And on that note, Prismatic spray takes the place of Wail on high save mobs. Again, with large pulls I can take out a couple in a single cast. The banish effect has no save and works everywhere, on everything. Luck however, does play a large factor in this, and there is a good chance you'll pull aggro if used as an opener.

[sirdanile]

I started messing around with a sorcerer just recently. I have hit the high and exalted level of 5 and I have soloed pretty much exclusively. I think spell selection is part of the solution. I use some crowd control (charm person) and some damaging spells (burning hands, scorching ray and electric loop) I also use a rapier to finish off some of the little buggers. I rarely find myself running out of spell points especially with my Korthos necklace thingy which gives me some extra sp. I have also never used a mana potion, although last night I did eat a maggot filled festival case which ... to my surprise ... restored some spell points although not a whole lot of them.

The last thing that I do is bring a cleric hireling that has the spell point restore clicky. (Divine Vitality I think), That can also give you extra spell points when you need them.


Edited for really pour spelling!

Too many people leave incoherent posts due to not checking what they type, thank you for editing.

OP

Sorcerors have a boat load of sp but you don't have to be the one that kills everything, buffing party members and a single crowd control spell on a large group of enemies is your job at lower levels.

[PeterE]

yeah sadly when groups having a hard time fighting a group and its on like elite or stuff and i'm doing nothing cause its only a few that hit hard I kinda feel bad if I don't help em even knowing doing nothings the right thing to do I still feel either lazy or like a burden

[SINIBYTE]

yeah sadly when groups having a hard time fighting a group and its on like elite or stuff and i'm doing nothing cause its only a few that hit hard I kinda feel bad if I don't help em even knowing doing nothings the right thing to do I still feel either lazy or like a burden

That's when you /dance.

[Carlll]

D.P.S.
Damage Per Second.
Amount of damage in one second.

Melee DPS is higher.

And yes, they dont run out of juice after one encounter.

That's kind of the topic, to run out of juice very quickly when DPSing.

by stacking dots

Which DoTs to stack are you speaking about?

[vVAnjilaVv]

When people run this quest i brought as an example, YOU DONT HAVE Wail yet. Sure, you can wait a couple of levels before you set foot into it with your caster, but why would you?
Because you suck at killing in level appropriate quests?


It's not "awesome". It just breaks the AI when you climb up a place the monsters cant reach. In any case, it doesnt do much DPS, it's just cheap and you dont need much healing. That doesnt make FW "the king of DPS".
Anyways, Hold Monster is faster and less lame.

Using non-Fire based damage spells vs Devils just makes my point: Puny, irrelevant DPS that any Barb or Fighter just yawns about and you blowing all your mana for practically nothing. That is EXACTLY my point and thats why noone likes "DPS-casters".

My point stands: If you care mostly about killing stuff, Arcane isnt for you. From 7-12 or so Firewall will kill lots, yes, but outside of these levels you suck at killing.

This post is so full of holes I don't know where to start. I will say this, if an arcane knows what they are doing they can be great DPS build...absolutely awesome....this for one means I know how erroneous this reply is, you persecute a playstyle based on people who don't know how to play.

And about Wall of Fire, well, even in Amarath there are still all kinds of mobs that are susceptible to fire damage....Trogs, Bezekiras, Teiflings, Trolls........and seeing as how Wall of Fire up to the point of Amarath is pretty much the most destructive spell in the game, and it's even very powerful in Amarath on quite a few monster types....I would say it's still pretty far up there as top top DPS.

I do agree with one part of this reply.....Arcanes should not be as concerned about kill count as melees.......and a good caster is conservative with their mana, uses it in a wise and intelligent manner and can make it last from shrine to shrine. IMO, a caster is like the overlord of battle, they stand back and let their melee minions fight for them......a well built caster can even mix it up in melee as well without sacrificing their casting abilities at all.

Overall tho, WIZ/SORCS are devastating DPS if built and played properly, and in a tactical party.

Oh and about the AI....wow.....I mean that mostly works on trash mobs and I am sorry they are trash for a reason....most of them are supposed to be of sub-par intelligence, common sense and wisdom. It's not broken AI, we the heroes of Stormreach just out number their brain cells by millions.

[Carlll]

This post is so full of holes I don't know where to start.

It would be neat if just you started SOMEWHERE (with non-dreamed up claims).

I will say this, if an arcane knows what they are doing they can be great DPS build...absolutely awesome....

Uhm, no?
No.

this for one means I know how erroneous this reply is, you persecute a playstyle based on people who don't know how to play.

I see, so Arcances are great DPS because im wrong and im wrong because Arcanes are great DPS... Right.

I wasnt aware that "me being wrong" would define reality in an anti-circular fashion. Maybe i should start earning money with that though. I could start out with anti-predicting the lotto numbers.

And about Wall of Fire, well, even in Amarath there are still all kinds of mobs that are susceptible to fire damage....Trogs, Bezekiras, Teiflings, Trolls....

I cut off a few "..." because i got bored. Hope that's ok.
Cool, nigh all of those pathetic cannonfodder monsters are only added to the quests so that casters can say "but meh FoD works!!!1".

However, Bezekiras are quite nasty, i give you that. High SR, Evasion, Deathward and they trip all the time. Of course if you want to kill them with Firewall, you'll have to cook them for half an hour until they die but lets not get into details.

But yah, we see a lot of LFMs for Shavarath 5/6 saying something like "Need a caster to Firewall the TROGLODYTES"...
Oh, wait.

....and seeing as how Wall of Fire up to the point of Amarath is pretty much the most destructive spell in the game, and it's even very powerful in Amarath on quite a few monster types....I would say it's still pretty far up there as top top DPS.

From Gianthold on, a high DPS party doesnt even NOTICE if Firewall is around or not.

Overall tho, WIZ/SORCS are devastating DPS if built and played properly, and in a tactical party.

If tactical party means, "lets go afk for half an hour while the caster is cooking the dish", then yes, i guess.

Oh and about the AI....wow.....I mean that mostly works on trash mobs and I am sorry they are trash for a reason....most of them are supposed to be of sub-par intelligence, common sense and wisdom. It's not broken AI, we the heroes of Stormreach just out number their brain cells by millions.[/color]

Right. "Lets climb up the wall so that the monsters cant reach us and slowly cook to death without moving" should require 50 INT to pull off... It's just SO clever.

[richieelias27]

Melee DPS is higher.

And yes, they dont run out of juice after one encounter.

That's kind of the topic, to run out of juice very quickly when DPSing.


Which DoTs to stack are you speaking about?

Right..... it's quite obvious you're hanging on to your argument as desperately as you possibly can despite all logic proving otherwise.

DoT.
Damage over time.
In this instance I am considering Wall of Fire and Acid Fog as Damage over time. These are spells you throw out once and let them run their course. The damage of a single cast of these will then add to your DPS totals for the next several minutes while you are spamming things like polar ray, chain lightning, DBF, Meteor, etc. Firewall can also be stacked with itself if done properly. At the end of their duration, on extreme HP mobs, it adds up to a significant amount of damage. Your statement that melee burst DPS is higher than Sorc burst DPS is just plain ignorant. The whole point of Sorc DPS is that Sorcs have the mana pool to keep it up until the object of their ire is dead.

I know you're used to wizards and all, but Sorcs seriously are an entirely different beast. We can pretty much machinegun spells out there as fast as a melee can swing, and yes, we can keep this up for a decent amount of time with empower and maximize on. Either run a sorc for yourself, or troll somewhere else.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Haha...your not worth wasting time over....you're wrong....that's the last I am going to say of it....goodbye to this thread and hopefully you as well.

BTW....welcome to my ignore list...you're amongst the few but well-deserved.

[Mindspat]

I keep being frightened someones gunna have a go at me for not casting spells even though I got no SP :S

It should be the other way around, you should be getting yelled out for casting too much and running out of spell points too fast.

Conserve and be selective. Save those spell points for big fights and try to avoid single mob spell dmg spells unless it's agasint a named boss.

[QuintonReece]

Carl,

You're so totally wrong on this subject. Sorcs are great DPS even at high levels, they can rule the kill count and if played correctly will rarely if ever run out of SP.

Instead of mixing words with you, why don't you post what server you are on and the name of your DPS toon. I'm sure several here would love to run a few quests with you and show you that their claims are true and can be accomplished. If you're on Argo, hit me up on Teslah, or even better watch a master(xxThermitexx). If you're on another server post up, we'll find someone.

Lets put the money where the mouth is, so to speak.

There is only one thing I will say positive about your claims, in Shavarath a Sorc will need to adjust his usual spell choices and playstyle. It is a little more difficult on that plane of existance for a spell caster. Everywhere else, pretty much hands down, a Sorc can rule pretty easily.

[Spiffyspiffy]

Firewall is king for a few levels, then it fades and you are back to square one. Sure, you got the flashier insta kill spells now but they are just as mana inefficient as Magic Missile at level 1.

What?

What?

Go back to whatever melee toon you play.

At most levels crowd control is a caster's main strength. At killing, melee is king at most levels and if you make a caster to be "a killer", you'll be disappointed with the performance and disappoint your party mates with your wasteful mana use.

Outside of epics, a 20th level sorc or wiz will be casting mostly save or die or save-reduction spells. In epics, depending on how you're beating it it's either firewall or hold monster.

Contrary to to your noise, for that's all its worth, Shavarath isn't difficult and many quests are being soloed and/or shortmanned by arcane only groups.

[toughguyjoe]

A keen claim that is easily dismissed. Stunning Blow has a CD of 15 seconds, Vorpal has an average CD of 5 seconds.

This one is AWESOME. Vorpal has a coolown of 5 seconds. LMAO. Yeah when I swing Vorpal I get a ratio of 1 Mob vorped every 5 seconds too!

Thruth is that Vorp is a staple for any melee build, possibly putting it aside when maximally equipped but not earlier. NO build will go optimally to end game without Vorps.
So, yeah, big claims there...

LMAO. So you've never built a decent DPS melee? Excellent.

Go run WW with Wail, and then go run it with your Vorpal wielding toon, you can preted you Vorped ALL OF THEM!

"OOOOH! Look whenever I swing it kills something!"

[toughguyjoe]

Carl,

You're so totally wrong on this subject. Sorcs are great DPS even at high levels, they can rule the kill count and if played correctly will rarely if ever run out of SP.

Instead of mixing words with you, why don't you post what server you are on and the name of your DPS toon. I'm sure several here would love to run a few quests with you and show you that their claims are true and can be accomplished. If you're on Argo, hit me up on Teslah, or even better watch a master(xxThermitexx). If you're on another server post up, we'll find someone.

Lets put the money where the mouth is, so to speak.

There is only one thing I will say positive about your claims, in Shavarath a Sorc will need to adjust his usual spell choices and playstyle. It is a little more difficult on that plane of existance for a spell caster. Everywhere else, pretty much hands down, a Sorc can rule pretty easily.

Agreed.

This guy Carll should apply for the Title "Worst Troll Ever"