Cleric Blame just got Funny

[Phidius]

Huh? You deleted a character you TR'd 4 times?

Poor choice of words - Reincarnated in this situation most likey means rerolled.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

My number one solution to 9/10 of these problems:


Permadeath.


Just saying

[the_laughing_god]

Kobold Assault PUG the other day--barbarian keeps running far away from the rest of the party. He starts yelling angrily into the microphone "Which one of you is the cleric? I wish you'd do your job!"

Near instant replies:
Other Team Member #1: "Dude, it's a hireling," followed by:
Other Team Member #2: "And even NPCs can only heal within range, man."

Barbarian quietly returns to group....

[Bloodlance]

So about Clerics, ive got 3 now, (aiming to x/x/x etc)

lvl 11 (halfling 17/2/1 , semi ok melee capability)

lvl 8 (pure cleric, with some capability to melee, but will focus later on BB etc and avoiding being hit with every possible means ingame)

lvl 4 ( 17/3(monk), (dwarf) maxed con, maxed wisdom, will be pure BB etc spell caster with awesome healing, tho i am planning more and more and prolly rerolling this toon soon)

Anyway, with every cleric i play, there is always someone in group that whines about something,

1) dont melee, just concentrate to heal

2) come melee, do dps

3) HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME (and the guy is behind corner running away with 1 mob behind his backside)

4) players who check my initial stats and start whining about low con or low something, and ultimately everything stops to a standstill (people r talking and whining and instead of doing the instance (would of been half way thru already))

5) when i use wands to heal (wand,cast,wand,cast,wand,cast etc) some people start to call me gimp???, usually ending a quest with 80% mana, should prolly cast more offencive/cc spells (just wait when i get my BB).

and like tons more comments like this, leads me to think that there is multiple personality complexes with players, or they find an issue to start whining about just for the sake of whining. Perhaps trying to lead focus away from themselves and their playing performance.

every experience (almost daily) i get, leads me to think that perhaps i should just roll a pure dps character and brainlessly do one job and let someone else take unnecessary **** about irrelevant point x and y.

what you guys think ?

[MateCarefor]

So about Clerics, ive got 3 now ... lvl 11 ... lvl 8 ... lvl 4 ...
every experience (almost daily) i get, leads me to think that perhaps i should just roll a pure dps character and brainlessly do one job and let someone else take unnecessary **** about irrelevant point x and y.

what you guys think ?

We supposed to beg you to stay a healer?
Good luck with that.

Like all classes, the ones that are good know it, and do the voodoo that they do.
The others, well...
Like, I'm in this group with this guy named Heystack, right? Guy won't talk on a mic and keeps getting stuck on a wall...

[Bloodlance]

We supposed to beg you to stay a healer?
Good luck with that.

Like all classes, the ones that are good know it, and do the voodoo that they do.
The others, well...
Like, I'm in this group with this guy named Heystack, right? Guy won't talk on a mic and keeps getting stuck on a wall...

Näää, just act according the level people are.

If someone is level 4-11, and people act and calculate what you will be when you are level 20 and then judging and whining about it when you are level 4-11 is pretty irrelevant at that given time.

ive seen too much elitism in low level content by older players that it seems to me that they only tolerate perfect builds that work in their head. Imo they just dont understand that some players play the game for fun and have no intention to even go raiding on lvl 17-20 if and when one reaches that level.

ofc they would be right in the attitude if the character would be a true gimp, but be real, lvl 4-11 you can complete almost any quest with even 50% efficent builds/players. But no, its not enuff for some players and they instead use 10-20mins whining about it when the actual quest takes 10-15mins to do.

Not a biggy, just something that is totally not needed, and i am a bit suprised that "pro" players do it.

[The_Great_Samulas]

So about Clerics, ive got 3 now, (aiming to x/x/x etc)

lvl 11 (halfling 17/2/1 , semi ok melee capability)

lvl 8 (pure cleric, with some capability to melee, but will focus later on BB etc and avoiding being hit with every possible means ingame)

lvl 4 ( 17/3(monk), (dwarf) maxed con, maxed wisdom, will be pure BB etc spell caster with awesome healing, tho i am planning more and more and prolly rerolling this toon soon)

Anyway, with every cleric i play, there is always someone in group that whines about something,

1) dont melee, just concentrate to heal

2) come melee, do dps

3) HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME (and the guy is behind corner running away with 1 mob behind his backside)

4) players who check my initial stats and start whining about low con or low something, and ultimately everything stops to a standstill (people r talking and whining and instead of doing the instance (would of been half way thru already))

5) when i use wands to heal (wand,cast,wand,cast,wand,cast etc) some people start to call me gimp???, usually ending a quest with 80% mana, should prolly cast more offencive/cc spells (just wait when i get my BB).

and like tons more comments like this, leads me to think that there is multiple personality complexes with players, or they find an issue to start whining about just for the sake of whining. Perhaps trying to lead focus away from themselves and their playing performance.

every experience (almost daily) i get, leads me to think that perhaps i should just roll a pure dps character and brainlessly do one job and let someone else take unnecessary **** about irrelevant point x and y.

what you guys think ?

Here is cut and paste of something I wrote discussing this point from another thread. Another player was assuring everyone that battleclerics were a waste and clerics should sit back and heal using the words "that is a fact".

"That is a fact." You see this alot. Players with experience in other MMOs, players that think they know what they are talking about that don't, players that just have a me centric view of playing, or players that don't have a healer toon or haven't played a healer at the higher levels. You see players that really lay it on thick with a very self-assured posture telling healers to stay back and heal. The reality is that only "gimpy" players need a healbot in standard quests. If you can't stay alive 5-10 seconds after dropping to 30% (the longest you should need to wait for a heal, provided the healer thinks you diserve one), then you need to address your playstyle.

They basically like to blame the healer for their own play issues most of the time. The only fact here is that you can usually say there is something about the player not playing the cleric that could be improved. This of course doesn't indicate that the healer was perfect, but it is rarely solely a problem with healing. This is because, there are very few encounters that need a healer to "save the bacon" in order for you to complete them. If there is a situation where "saving the bacon" is necessary, its almost always because of poor strategy, even on elite.

The only caveat to this is that you can have clerics that decide they are ready to play an advanced cleric, when they don't have the experience yet to do it. I've heard people claiming that they moved to advanced cleric play quickly, when it actually takes time with multiple group settings to gain the expertise. Running through waterworks on normal and meleeing does not make you an advanced cleric. Nor does doing Running with Devils with a guild group while meleeing and offensive casting. Do a quest where you actually have to heal and the other facets to test your mettle. When you are in VoD, actually melee the orthons and Sullomondes while healing when you are the only cleric - on hard even. Do Sins of Attrition and vorpal with the other tanks while you keep them alive. When you can do these, you are very much an advanced cleric. Then do it without any mana pots. I only present these to give the healers something to test their mettle against, not to say you aren't good if you can't do these things.

In the end, you need to have fun playing your healer. Don't let players who think they know what they are talking about fool you into being a healbot if that isn't what you want. They frankly need you more than you need them. Don't over-estimate your abilities or experience, but don't play it too safe either.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

This is because, there are very few encounters that need a healer to "save the bacon" in order for you to complete them. If there is a situation where "saving the bacon" is necessary, its almost always because of poor strategy, even on elite.

+1

In PD we usually don't have a full party, let alone a healer, and when we die, we delete.
Blaming the healer is very much a substitue for poor playing on the part of the party, except in rare cases.

[Hoglum]

I have a story along these lines. I play with this guy sometimes who acts like he’s 8 years old. He always runs off recklessly and gets hurt. He’ll zerg ahead, tanking with his Rogue character, acting like Hercules. I always tell him he needs to be more careful.

I don’t usually mind, though. I’m happy following him along with either my Bard or Cleric, doing my best to biff and heal him at all times.

So, not too long ago, I’m playing my Ranger, running with this guy. I’m 5th level and own a whopping wand of cure light wounds. Here he goes again, thinking he’s invincible. He charges into a nest of hobgoblins in Tangleroot Gorge. He’s taking massive amounts of damage like always, and starts yelling at me, “DAD, DAD, heal me, heal me.” I say, dude, I’m a Ranger, I can’t heal.

Well, now my son has a new nickname – “Soul Stone”.

[CombatLibrarian]

We've all seen it... heck right here on the board it even breaks down to heated discussions over battle-clerics versus healbots... The cleric is often blamed for anything thats gone wrong. Sometimes its because the cleric is not good at healing, sometimes its because the rest of the group is running around stupidly & sometimes its because somebody else is underspecced & they blame the cleric.

Tonight i saw the funniest thing ever. We are running "Clear the Air" but due to low level of clerics willing to PUG anymore, we did it san-healers (not even a bard or a paladin). We all saw this before hand & stocked up on healing potions (though it was pretty much unspoken).

Well about half way through the run (in a place you don't want to get seperated) i can hear one of the players (a player who broke away from the group) swearing down his mic "Will somebody @#$%ing heal me." & "I'm down to one HP... ! @#$%ing cleric not doing his job!" & lastly "DROP THE !@#$$%ING CLERIC, HE'S NOT HEALING" to which i could only laugh & remind the player in question "Dude, we don't HAVE a cleric. Your going to have to heal yourself." Couple of seconds later his character dies & he pulls out & drops group.

The moral of this story is this: If you play a cleric, it is your fault when things beyond your power happen... Even when you are not at fault & couldn't do anything about it, it will still end up being your problem. Just be warned.

-M

This story is made of win. Seriously, if you expect heals, check to see if there's a cleric/fvs before the run starts, and if there is none ask if the bard is a healer, and if they're not or there is no bard...

[CaptainCameo]

Well about half way through the run (in a place you don't want to get seperated) i can hear one of the players (a player who broke away from the group) swearing down his mic "Will somebody @#$%ing heal me." & "I'm down to one HP... ! @#$%ing cleric not doing his job!" & lastly "DROP THE !@#$$%ING CLERIC, HE'S NOT HEALING" to which i could only laugh & remind the player in question "Dude, we don't HAVE a cleric. Your going to have to heal yourself." Couple of seconds later his character dies & he pulls out & drops group.

So I guess Clerics are to blame, even if they're not in the quest. Amazing.

[Postumus]

I have a story along these lines. I play with this guy sometimes who acts like he’s 8 years old. He always runs off recklessly and gets hurt. He’ll zerg ahead, tanking with his Rogue character, acting like Hercules. I always tell him he needs to be more careful.

I don’t usually mind, though. I’m happy following him along with either my Bard or Cleric, doing my best to biff and heal him at all times.

So, not too long ago, I’m playing my Ranger, running with this guy. I’m 5th level and own a whopping wand of cure light wounds. Here he goes again, thinking he’s invincible. He charges into a nest of hobgoblins in Tangleroot Gorge. He’s taking massive amounts of damage like always, and starts yelling at me, “DAD, DAD, heal me, heal me.” I say, dude, I’m a Ranger, I can’t heal.

Well, now my son has a new nickname – “Soul Stone”.

awesome.

[Sonofmoradin]

Here is cut and paste of something I wrote discussing this point from another thread. Another player was assuring everyone that battleclerics were a waste and clerics should sit back and heal using the words "that is a fact".

"That is a fact." You see this alot. Players with experience in other MMOs, players that think they know what they are talking about that don't, players that just have a me centric view of playing, or players that don't have a healer toon or haven't played a healer at the higher levels. You see players that really lay it on thick with a very self-assured posture telling healers to stay back and heal. The reality is that only "gimpy" players need a healbot in standard quests. If you can't stay alive 5-10 seconds after dropping to 30% (the longest you should need to wait for a heal, provided the healer thinks you diserve one), then you need to address your playstyle.

They basically like to blame the healer for their own play issues most of the time. The only fact here is that you can usually say there is something about the player not playing the cleric that could be improved. This of course doesn't indicate that the healer was perfect, but it is rarely solely a problem with healing. This is because, there are very few encounters that need a healer to "save the bacon" in order for you to complete them. If there is a situation where "saving the bacon" is necessary, its almost always because of poor strategy, even on elite.

The only caveat to this is that you can have clerics that decide they are ready to play an advanced cleric, when they don't have the experience yet to do it. I've heard people claiming that they moved to advanced cleric play quickly, when it actually takes time with multiple group settings to gain the expertise. Running through waterworks on normal and meleeing does not make you an advanced cleric. Nor does doing Running with Devils with a guild group while meleeing and offensive casting. Do a quest where you actually have to heal and the other facets to test your mettle. When you are in VoD, actually melee the orthons and Sullomondes while healing when you are the only cleric - on hard even. Do Sins of Attrition and vorpal with the other tanks while you keep them alive. When you can do these, you are very much an advanced cleric. Then do it without any mana pots. I only present these to give the healers something to test their mettle against, not to say you aren't good if you can't do these things.

In the end, you need to have fun playing your healer. Don't let players who think they know what they are talking about fool you into being a healbot if that isn't what you want. They frankly need you more than you need them. Don't over-estimate your abilities or experience, but don't play it too safe either.

I have read some of your posts, and you seem like very experienced in playing clerics, and indeed in my experience what I read from your posts show it.

However I wanted to ask you why you think an advanced cleric playstyle is supposed to go melee at the same time while healing and offensive casting. I do not see how a cleric build could have all those aspects in its build - and at the same time been maxed on all those aspects. Gearwise, feat - wise, stat wise, etc. Not to mention that no matter how well someone can multitask, there is a certain maximum speed you can press keys and certain cooldown on using spells and abilities as well as the 1 second human reflexes. (michael sumacher was found with 0,9 second reflexes)

So with all due respect, I always believed that playing this class is a matter of personal style that differs from player to player and the only thing that matters in the end is how effective one is.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I have read some of your posts, and you seem like very experienced in playing clerics, and indeed in my experience what I read from your posts show it.

However I wanted to ask you why you think an advanced cleric playstyle is supposed to go melee at the same time while healing and offensive casting. I do not see how a cleric build could have all those aspects in its build - and at the same time been maxed on all those aspects. Gearwise, feat - wise, stat wise, etc. Not to mention that no matter how well someone can multitask, there is a certain maximum speed you can press keys and certain cooldown on using spells and abilities as well as the 1 second human reflexes. (michael sumacher was found with 0,9 second reflexes)

So with all due respect, I always believed that playing this class is a matter of personal style that differs from player to player and the only thing that matters in the end is how effective one is.

Well, I can respond to that like this I suppose.


My main is a WIS-based Favoured Soul with only a moderate STR. I can heal and offensive cast obviously. However, I also carry around vorpal weapons (since the only thing that matters is the 20), Rahl's Might (for Improved Destruction in Epics), and I have a +5 Holy Silver Falchion of Righteousness that I use to melee Arry in the Shroud (and Suulo in VoD and ToD, Horoth in ToD, ect...).

I'm not specced for it by any means, but that doesn't mean I can't hit and also add a bit to party DPS at the same time.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I have read some of your posts, and you seem like very experienced in playing clerics, and indeed in my experience what I read from your posts show it.

However I wanted to ask you why you think an advanced cleric playstyle is supposed to go melee at the same time while healing and offensive casting. I do not see how a cleric build could have all those aspects in its build - and at the same time been maxed on all those aspects. Gearwise, feat - wise, stat wise, etc. Not to mention that no matter how well someone can multitask, there is a certain maximum speed you can press keys and certain cooldown on using spells and abilities as well as the 1 second human reflexes. (michael sumacher was found with 0,9 second reflexes)

So with all due respect, I always believed that playing this class is a matter of personal style that differs from player to player and the only thing that matters in the end is how effective one is.

Advanced clerics can heal and either offensive cast or melee. Then there are those that choose to do all three, but they are not as good at offensive casting and melee as a cleric would be that concentrates on offensive casting or melee. However, you can be quite good at both offensive casting and melee.

As far as your concern over being able to do all three at the same time it is as Aylin suggests, you don't have to do all three at the same time. You merely have the option to doing each as aprropriate. It is actually possible to do all three though.

EX 1: Sins of Attrition, elite. You blade barrier to offensively cast. You heal targetting yourself, all the while jumping around vorpaling through your bladebarriers. I find this technique more interesting than just running around through BBs, as you get more mana.

EX 2: Standard quests. You rush into a fight. As you close, you target casters in the back with destruction, close to engage melees with greater command, then use your lightning strike weapon to DPS with divine might. All the while intimidating and mass healing on yourself.

EX 3: ToD part II. You melee the shadow lord on the throne area, typically getting agro from a combination of healing and melee. You mass heal on yourself, melee and throw harms. You target the Shadow Lord for harms, are able to keep an eye on his health to gauge mana useage, and default target masses on yourself. your active metas include quicken, empower heal, and maximize so that you can heal through shadows for awhile if they swarm the group. If they do swarm the group you target yourself to add your aura bursts to the healing chain.

Now I'm not saying this stuff is easy. It takes practice and a build that doesn't over specialize. It is quite fun though.

As far as gear - I have 4 different cloaks I wear, 3 different gloves, etc. You have different items depending upon what you want to do and your mana levels, and your desired role. This role can and should vary based upon the group - cleric versatility can and should be capitalized on to maximize the groups performance. Are your melees champs? Go heavy dps with minimal concern for casting efficiency. Are your casters masters of crowd control or just nukers? Keep crowd control on the ready. Do you have a squishy guy that loves to get agro? Consult your jokes list to make sure you get some good ones in every time he dies (because he is going to when you want him to - so be ready!).

[AylinIsAwesome]

EX 1: Sins of Attrition, elite. You blade barrier to offensively cast. You heal targetting yourself, all the while jumping around vorpaling through your bladebarriers. I find this technique more interesting than just running around through BBs, as you get more mana.

Just gonna add to this that jumping at an Orthon while swinging a vorpal weapon (and rolling the 20) felt so good when I first got to Shavarath.


Also, don't worry about what kind of vorpal you have, even if it's something weird like a kama. With Divine Favour and Divine Power on you can confirm the critical 100% of the time with just a moderate STR (I started with 12).

[hityawithastick]

[QUOTE]Just completed a Quest & i had to let a character die.

He starts in with "Dude, why didn't you heal me?"
"Because you had so many ongoing negative effects there was no way for my healing to keep up & not everyone else had those effects."
"WELL YOU SHOULD OF HEALED ME! @#% #$%#$^ CLERIC NOT HEALING! ITS WHAT YOUR HERE FOR! HEALZ ME!"
/point "Why didn't you use the healing shrine?" (points at healing shrine right next to me)
"I was saving it? Now are you going to resurrect me or not?"
"Nope... I can proudly say, no. no i'm not"
"DROP THIS CLERIC HE'S NOT ANY @#$%ING GOOD... HE WONT HEAL!"
*team leader* "Sure he did, you just didn't listen" *team leader picks up stone, moves it too the other side of the map, then drops it*
*team leader* "Ok guys, lets do this next bit"

[END QUOTE]

This. Is. AWESOME. I wish party leaders were actual leaders more often. ^_^

[st0rmcr0vv]

Haven't read though all of this thread but in case it hasn't already been stated: the blame rests purely on the party leader. *I* know to grab pots (I actually have pots all the time regardless of the party layout, which is the smart way to go) but nothing should be "unspoken" in a situation like this. Your vet players might pull the elitist attitude of "we're not stupid" but new players will (silently) appreciate the heads up as none of us (vets or "noobs") enjoy playing through a quest only to get no XP and no end loot.

[erikbozelie]

Huray, an spot for my rant!.

I play an warpriest, yes, not an healer...
its not that i will not / does not heal, its that i cannot heal folks when i am fighting the monsters themselves.
I am never too lazy to fall back and start healing left or right in times of need, or to pass an quickened raise dead so the healers wont have to stop healing.

I always get alot of *****ing about not being / claiming to be an good healer, and most of the time it contains comparisons from me to an 70 strength barbarian. while i am certainly flattered by the comparison by one of the best melee in the game, i have only met 2 guys so far, that actually do the damage the "*****ers" compare me to, and i must add here. That there are alot of bad battle clerics / warpriests out there that suck, but there are an few. and actually dont.

These 2 guys that actually do those kind of dps ratings are both in my guild, and i have to say. they rule!.
I once asked one of them about this same kind of thread comparison and he told me my dps was pretty decent. especially when you compare me to 90% of the other melee.

95% of every 28pt barbarians or fighters do not have the melee dps the *****ers are comparing me to.

These 2 that do have these kind of dps are also an few of the guys i dont mind healing because they don't suck.

read the boards, most barbarians say the best defense is hit points... who builds something like that. my ass.
people should be able to take care of themselves for 1 min without me having to babysit they're health bar.... I AM NOT GETTING PAID ENOUGH FOR THAT. expecially if i do the same / more dmg them some of these guys. who needs an heal every 5 sec.... is an complete #@$#@$.

even i the 40ac 500hp "warpriest" gets around fairly easy by just tripping the **** out of stuff. knocking them down, commanding them, or take cover / stay out of theyre reach ( use your greataxe REACH ability for crying out loud!).

so with an SoS run the other day, me, an healer, an monk, and and palladin ( monk and pally having cleric hirelings).
i ended up with 70/100 kills... and they with about 30 deaths... while ill never be able to understand how they could posible die that many times with 3 personal healers.but i do understand that THEY SUCK. PERIOD.

i ended up leaving.. was tired of having to basically solo that quest.

I get blamed for all kind of ****. llike hounds breaking in under 30 sec. all at once. while the barbarian just being the idiot and kills them... HOW IS THIS MY FAILT!.
or when the zerger charges off in middle of group heals and blames me for not healing. its your own darn fault for not getting heals you morron!

I was invited into my guild which is at this moment at rank #6. and do an well / good enough job as an oppinion from all its members. My guild leader always gets alot of complains about me, and he always just laughs about it when he hears my side of the story.

if there is 1 thing i learned from my time in ddo is that time and time again, i will be disapointed in god, for creating such many many noobs and idiots.

[Zadkiele]

I play with this guy sometimes who acts like he’s 8 years old.

So, not too long ago, I’m playing my Ranger, running with this guy.

starts yelling at me, “DAD, DAD, heal me, heal me.” I say, dude, I’m a Ranger, I can’t heal.

Well, now my son has a new nickname – “Soul Stone”.

You call your son 'this guy' ?

Zad