Bard Weapons?

[Vinven]

I am about to create a bard, and was just wondering what weapons should I go for? I was thinking about a repeater. As for build, mostly just some cc, dps, not too much on the healing side as I already have a FVS.

[BoBoDaClown]

Repeater is not going to be worth it.

Either go with dual rapiers/khopeshes etc or Two Handers.

[devilsjustice]

Go repeater if you want. It makes more sense for a bard to focus on dex based weapons than str, since bards usually have more dex than str.

[BoBoDaClown]

since bards usually have more dex than str.

No they do not (not that it would make much difference).

[devilsjustice]

Yeah they do. Bards usually do not have high strength because they need the dex mod for their skills and their AC. Not only that, but going melee with a bard is never a good option. They don't have the HP, they don't have the AC, and wearing anything other than light armor gives them a penalty on their spells. You expect to see high strength on Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Monks, and maybe Rangers. Not Bards.

[Rav'n]

Hey Bobo.... I guess we should stop playing our Strength based Bards.....


/Sigh.... they're SOOOO Much fun!


But as posted by DJ, STR builds are only good as Fighters, Barbs, Pallies, Monks... and... maybe (just maybe) Rangers... But Not Bards.... Oh well, time to delete my double TR'd STR based Bard...

[BoBoDaClown]

Yeah they do. Bards usually do not have high strength because they need the dex mod for their skills and their AC. Not only that, but going melee with a bard is never a good option. They don't have the HP, they don't have the AC, and wearing anything other than light armor gives them a penalty on their spells. You expect to see high strength on Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Monks, and maybe Rangers. Not Bards.

I was trying to be polite devils. Maybe you come from an PnP b/g, in which case don't come to computer game board and start spouting bollocks.

Through your points:

Skills: what skills? Balance is nice and you can get it high without a massive dex.
AC: what AC. Your bard is going to have non existent AC anyway, so why put points into it. (some rare bard-tank exceptions of course)

Melee with a bard is a bad idea: really? It is the most popular, powerful form of bard at the moment (this coming from a guy whose main is a CC bard...). Lets go through your points:
HP: You can get decent to high hp quite easily. My level 13 melee bard has 300hp unbuffed, 339 raging, no madstone etc. She'll could end up with more hp than my tank...
AC: You're right, most bards can't get good AC, so what's the point in the dex? In fact, most characters in this game don't have workable AC, no matter what the class.
You expect high strength on Barbs, blah, blah, etc: Nice to see you have an open mind.

[BoBoDaClown]

Hey Bobo.... I guess we should stop playing our Strength based Bards.....


/Sigh.... they're SOOOO Much fun!


But as posted by DJ, STR builds are only good as Fighters, Barbs, Pallies, Monks... and... maybe (just maybe) Rangers... But Not Bards.... Oh well, time to delete my double TR'd STR based Bard...

I sympathise

[Gorbadoc]

Bards usually do not have high strength because...

Mainstream thinking is that dexterity is unnecessary on bards unless you're going TWF. I hesitate to tell people that their thinking is wrong when it comes to bards, but in this case, what you've said is factually incorrect. The most popular bard builds are strength-based, with charisma-based builds taking second place.

Of course, there are perfectly playable bards that are dexterity-based; I have an evasion bard, for example, and she's a lot of fun. Such builds, though, are the exception. In the case of my evasion bard, the only reason why she's functional is that I know the class well and I could afford fancy equipment.

[nbennet]

Yeah they do. Bards usually do not have high strength because they need the dex mod for their skills and their AC. Not only that, but going melee with a bard is never a good option. They don't have the HP, they don't have the AC, and wearing anything other than light armor gives them a penalty on their spells. You expect to see high strength on Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Monks, and maybe Rangers. Not Bards.

At first I thought this was a joke, or sarcasm...

This is terrible advice, and I can only assume the poster does not have much experience playing a Bard. Generally the highest DEX needed is 17 for two-weapon fighting bards, which typically means taking a 16 starting DEX and a using +1 tome, or a 15 DEX with a +2 tome. Others can generally dump it, unless they have a planned hybrid or concept build in mind. Or are doing something newbish, like trying to play a ranged Bard).

DEX mod is not required for Bard skills. Apart from TWF feats, DEX contributes to Reflex saves, which may be significant for some splash builds with Evasion, or Weapon Finesse builds. Given that songs (and later, Divine Power clickies) generally mean Bards have little difficulty hitting things, and how scarce Bard feats are, it is a rare Bard that will take Finesse.

Apart from some very unusual builds, the typical Bard does not have a meaningful AC, so the idea of DEX for AC is a ludicrous suggestion. For damage mitigation, Bards will rely on Blur, Displacement, Stoneskin (scroll or wand) and possibly Ironskin chant. Most endgame bards are wearing robes.

A good figure for endgame HP on a Bard is around 400 unbuffed, which is more than adequate to be in the thick of things.

Currently the most popular Bard builds are melee, with STR as a primary stat. Bards have the potential to be melee powerhouses at all stages of the game. Although they will not produce the same DPS as, say, Frenzied Bersekers, they more than make up for this with versatility and the best buffs in the game.


*EDIT* I realized I didn't answer the OP's question.

At low levels, it is usually better to go THF even if you are eventually going to duel wield, because duel-wielding requires feats to be effective and thus comes into its own later. Greataxe or Falchion are good choices - go for the highest bonus you can find, and don't worry too much about elemental or other effects.

Since Bards can use Master's Touch for martial proficiency (and the recent changes mean it won't be dispelled easily) you have a wide variety of options even if staying a pure bard. Generally you want a weapon with a good crit profile. If you are going TWF, this means:
- Rapier (Piercing, all Bards are proficient)
- Scimitar (Slashing, use Master's Touch or splash a martial class)
- Khopesh (Slashing, will require a feat, but considered "best")

It will also depend on your race. If you have racial enhancements for a weapon, use that weapon.

Remember also that many mobs have resistance to particular types of damage, so you will likely carry more than one type of weapon. For example, you always want to have a Holy or Pure Good Bludgeon Weapon for dealing with certain undead. Some weapon effects only come on certain types of weapons. For example, Vorpal only comes on Slashing weapons. This means that by the endgame, competent characters have a selection of weapons, and they pull out the appropriate one for each situation.

[BoBoDaClown]

Generally you want a weapon with a good crit profile. If you are going TWF, this means:
- Rapier (Piercing, all Bards are proficient)
- Scimitar (Slashing, use Master's Touch or splash a martial class)
- Khopesh (Slashing, will require a feat, but considered "best")

or Heavy Picks

[Rav'n]

At first I thought this was a joke, or sarcasm...

blah blah blah....yada yada yada (I hate when people quote a whole post just to agree with someone...)

+1 -Nice post, add in the heavy Picks and I couldn't agree more (Especially with the THF comment at early levels. I highly encourage almost ALL melee Builds to run THF upto or around 9-11.

And yeah... if you got Rep from this post (Good or bad...almost all of it was good...almost...)

[maddmatt70]

or Heavy Picks

/signed.. heavy picks are now competitive with the khopesh at end game. Since mass hold lands so well on epic trash the heavy pick is the best weapon for epic trash. The khopesh is the best weapon for red names. In my opinion the best bard weapon is the heavy pick because it saves a feat and is only slightly not as good on red names.

[Vidfinnx]

no weighted maces?

[quityourjobs]

no weighted maces?

They might be useful on some epic trash with high reflex saves, but they will do much less damage on an auto-crit mob than heavy picks. Triple earth GS is the way to go.

[Vidfinnx]

well do you get auto crit mobs alot in the higher end?
you have to have a competant caster to hold them right?
im just wondering cause im specced piercing focus/rapiers right now
and could use heavy picks. but i think bludgeoning weapons just sound
and look cool. im kinda a min/maxer though lol if our group dies
and i cant kill the last mob fast enough is it my fault for using
bludgeoning? or i never had a chance anyway? how often has your
dps saved a group wipe? am i being neurotic lol probably.
currently i have only experienced up to level 11 in this game.