i am in the process of leveling a twf human warchanter speced for rapiers, i really wanna go bludgeon weapon cause they look cool but are they crappy? if so how are bludgeon weapons less superior to rapiers/khopeshs? but i am also new to ddo
only been playing a month but is twf crappy now for bards? if so why?
should i pay the feat swap at level 11 for a switch now?
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Thread: is twf not the best now?
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07-02-2010, 02:56 PM #1Community Member
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is twf not the best now?
Last edited by Vidfinnx; 07-02-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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07-02-2010, 03:01 PM #2Community Member
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bludgeon is pretty bad compared to scimitars, rapiers, or khopeshes, but not the worst choice. Two weapon fighting is still the best for bard builds, but thf is good if you want to save the feats.
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07-02-2010, 04:08 PM #3Build Constructionist
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The suckiest thing about blunt weapons is their low crit range; they only crit on a natural 20 (Improved Crit feat or Impact weapons make it 19-20). Also, if you're a pure bard, the only blunt weapons you're proficient with are maces and clubs, IIRC, which are x2 crit weapons; hammers & mauls are x3 martial weapons (same as axes). You can cast Master's Touch, but since pure bards are naturally proficient with rapiers, most just stick with them (or take khopesh feat). Finally, some of the nicest proc abilities aren't available on blunt weapons: e.g., Vorpal is slashing-only, Puncturing is piercing-only, IIRC. The main things blunt weapons have going for them are they're the only weapons with Stunning-nee-Weighted (% chance to auto-stun, +Stunning Blow DC) and Bone Breaking (d6 DEX dmg on crits).
Now all that said, if you're not obsessed with maxing your DPS, go with whatever weapons you like - and can hit with, of course!
It's just important to know what the tradeoffs are. And the silver lining to going with unpopular / suboptimal weapons is they're a lot less expensive on the auction house.
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07-02-2010, 04:13 PM #4Community Member
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Isn't Bludgeon better when used with Stunning weapons?
in general its inferior but there are exceptions i believe
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07-02-2010, 04:15 PM #5Founder
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User knopeshes if you can. They do rock for bards. Or rapiers for the crit range
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07-02-2010, 04:16 PM #6Community Member
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unfortunatly i seem to feel obsessed with maxing dps, because i feel like if my dps can save a wipe lol then i would be bad to not do it. But if its not a make or break decision then i would rather break peoples bones and heads heh. i read on a few forums that puncturing is not that great anymore is this true? i love to use cheaper unpopular weapons if they are not that huge of a difference. will it be game breaking to use bludgeon? i know that its freaking expensive to switch my feat lol. is it true that endgame all that matters is crits because of mob ac/hp/dr? im a person coming from everquest for 7 years as a monk and bard and wow so to me this is a whole nother ball game. can anyone tell me exactly how it is endgame, is there nothing to do, am i building for nothing? in eq there was raid after raid after raid.
Last edited by Vidfinnx; 07-02-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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07-02-2010, 04:22 PM #7Community Member
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Thanks to "nerfdate5" unless you plan on taking all the TWF feats your off hand attacks will be lacking.
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07-02-2010, 04:22 PM #8Community Member
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Re: puncturing
Puncturing isn't what it once was, used to be able to kill things when they got to 0 con. However now when mobs hit 0 con they get stunned and every hit after that is an auto crit. My ranger was running around with a WoP rapier and a seeker 10 pick axe for fun for a few days.
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07-02-2010, 04:31 PM #9Build Constructionist
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Yeah, like I said, only blunt weapons can have the Stunning attribute, so they're a natural choice if you want to focus on amping your Stunning Blow DC - or just like the occasional free stun. The great thing about stuns is you get free crits on the stunned foe. For, say, a raging THF barbarian with Power Attack and a stunning maul, that can be a lot of extra dmg pretty quick.
Originally Posted by KKDragonLord
Puncturing weapons do d6 CON dmg on crits. In the good ol' days, you could kill a monster by reducing its CON to 0 via Puncturing; but in one of innumerable nerfs over the years, you just render it helpless when it reaches 0 CON (or 0 any other stat, I think). Still good, of course, but less good than it used to be. [And a good illustration for my rule of thumb: never ever get too attached to a single tactic, because sooner or later the devs will realize how great it is and it will get nerfed just to spite you. Yes, you personally. Originally Posted by Vidfinnx
]
Also, bear in mind DPS comparisons are often situational. E.g., khopeshes are the best 1H weapon in terms of average sustained DPS - until you're facing something crit-immune, at which point they're no better than a longsword. Or you're playing a paladin, in which case there's a strong case in favor of scimitars and rapiers for their higher crit range (and the fact you can't make a Holy Sword khopesh).
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07-02-2010, 04:43 PM #10Community Member
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Bludgeon crit range does suck, true, however, having a warhammer kensai and being able to rack up a 50+ stun DC enables me to pick any non red named mob that is crit-able out of the pack and put it into 2-20 crit range, with a side order of 6 seconds of pain.
The only weapons I have had to switch to slash for are zombies. Most of the other stuff that needs slash or pierce to break DR on is also crit-able. Originally Posted by Teh_Troll
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07-02-2010, 05:46 PM #11Community Member
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Holy Sword khopeshes are indeed available. THF Palis have problems with Holy Sword as the Greatsword is the only slashing two-hander availabe; no Greataxe or Falchion. Originally Posted by unbongwah
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07-02-2010, 05:50 PM #12Community Member
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If you have the extra feat - go Khopesh. Best TWF weapon in terms of DPS
if you can't afford an extra feat - rapiers are your second best choice.
Now that stunning weapons are less powerful then they used to be - they are only really worth it if you have the Stunning Blow feat (which you probly won't)Check out my: My Index of Builds / My Capped Characters on Khyber: Krythan II / Velkro Sorcerer / Krythen 13/6/1 Rogue
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07-02-2010, 06:09 PM #13Community Member
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if i want extend i dont have the extra feat for khopesh with improved critCode:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 True Neutral Human Male (20 Bard) Hit Points: 232 Spell Points: 612 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 8 Reflex: 15 Will: 11 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 15 20 Dexterity 16 17 Constitution 14 15 Intelligence 8 8 Wisdom 8 8 Charisma 12 16 Tomes Used +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 7 26 Bluff 1 3 Concentration 6 25 Diplomacy 1 3 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 4 25 Heal -1 -1 Hide 3 3 Intimidate 1 3 Jump 6 28 Listen -1 -1 Move Silently 3 3 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 5 26 Repair -1 -1 Search -1 -1 Spot -1 -1 Swim 2 5 Tumble 4 4 Use Magic Device 5 26 Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Human Versatility I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Level 2 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I Level 4 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II Level 5 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I Level 6 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I Level 7 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Level 8 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Level 9 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Level 10 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III Level 11 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III Level 12 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Level 13 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Level 14 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Level 15 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Level 16 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV Level 17 (Bard) Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I Level 18 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Level 19 (Bard) Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II Level 20 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
so rapiers>bludgeoning then? basically all im taking is the improved critical of the weapon
no actualy specific procficiencyLast edited by Vidfinnx; 07-02-2010 at 06:12 PM.
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07-03-2010, 04:42 AM #14Community Member
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That's where the 2 levels of fighter come in... and once you start dropping Bard levels, might as well drop to 15 or 14 bard, and toss a few rogue levels in for sneak attack and evasion. Originally Posted by Vidfinnx
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07-03-2010, 05:16 AM #15Community Member
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-Looks like a good pure bard war chanter build. Originally Posted by Vidfinnx
-Splashing is certainly viable on a dps warchanter. By splashing you slightly weaken your songs for greater personal dps. There are certain sweet spots:
16 Bard: gets you level 6 spells. Of particular interest is Otto's irresistible dance, which is still useful on a low cha war chanter.
15 Bard: inspire heroic song - meaning you have all the buff songs (this gives +4 to AC - good in specific situations).
14 Bard: increases the effectiveness of your damage song (next increase comes at 20).
-most common splashes are:
2 Fighter: gives you two feats - very iseful, plus an attack speed boost and +1 str.
2-3 rogue: gives you evasion, plus sneak attack, plus trap skills if you so want.
-don't feel like you have to splash - 20 Bard is good
-since you said you like uncommon weapons, you could consider going with heavy picks - they are just as good as rapiers (both have a critical profile of an extra 3 hits), except when critical range matters- like on banishers. So you could carry rapiers for specific situations, and heavy picks as your main dps.
-endgame in DDO is predominately raiding, epic (difficult) questing, and some general questing. Although there aren't as many raids as one might like.Last edited by BoBoDaClown; 07-03-2010 at 05:20 AM.
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07-03-2010, 10:17 PM #16Community Member
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take the proficiency or use masters touch with them heh are they exotic?
oh yah, how else can i deal with blade barriers like in ADQ
no evasion sucks
i was wondering if there was any kind of build i could make like with high dex
or something that makes me like dodge attacks, or is that only AC?
bards in other games i have played were like rogues they had light armor
and a high dodge rate and medium dps. so if i stay till 20 pure i will have a better
inspire courage than a 18/2 rogue, because that seems like the splash i would wanna do
but only if it doesnt gimp my buffs. party always comes first
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07-03-2010, 10:22 PM #17Community Member
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This is likely an aside because the OP seems like a newer player, but the heavy pick is an awful strong competitor to the khopesh at the end game now. On the epic trash with how powerful mass hold is heavy picks are better then the khopesh. I advised a player in game recently that if he had a bunch of resources making lightning strike or tripple earth heavy picks and mineral two rapiers and in the process saving a feat is likely the way to go for bards at the end game right now. Originally Posted by Goldeneye
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07-04-2010, 05:35 AM #18Community Member
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yeah i am a new player and i was wondering is there downsides to taking thf? am i ok at staying twf?
even if i do not take improved critical and take maximize or quicken instead?
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07-04-2010, 01:48 PM #19Community Member
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Vid...regardless of whether you go TWF or THF after level 9/10/11, use a Great Axe/Sword or Falcion early on. ESPECIALLY with the new TWF 'fix'. You want to HIT something in order to do damage... THF will give you that. As far as comparing the 2 above level 12...
My Level 16 Bard (Does NOT have GTWF as of yet) seems to get a lot of 'misses' at level 16 quests. I'm assuming these are the off Hand. I've done a lot of different combinations in each hand to test this.. Paralyzers, Curse Weapons, Elemental Weapons.... trying to see what hits and what doesn't.
I believe that at level 17 (Will pick up GTWF then) I should see a big difference, as the chance for the off hand to Hit goes up.
I plan on keeping that particular Bard TWF. I also have a THF Bard (using Master's Touch) Everything seems fine on him, the few times I've run him in Upper level Raids. Originally Posted by Pugsley
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07-04-2010, 01:56 PM #20Community Member
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my bard im currently at level 11 in this build and twf, so thf will give me better hit rate?
i think it would be nice to be able to spare a feat. if thf isnt that far behind i might make the switch
currently im using a +5 shock and +2 holy rapier. What are the advantages thf vs twf though i dont know exactly
for a bard. I plan on staying pure. Madmatts rabiez build sounds like the kind of build that i like and want. i wanna be able to dable in a little bit of everything but he has a twf. so i figured that was best
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