Great Cleave vs Whirlwind Attack

[lumes]

Working on my first build (for fun/flavor) and debating between the above feats. Seeking others thoughts (or correction in my understanding) but first my own (based on research and not play-testing, brand new player).

- They have the same cooldown
- Whirlwind hits more targets
- Great Cleave costs 2 feats less (only partially relevant as both have only one feat which is less than useful [mobility/combat expertise])

So far my debate boils down to

- Do I prefer dodge/spring attack or power attack
- Do I wanna use the 2 feats on dragonmarks
- Am I patient enough to wait for the higher number target payoff at a higher level

Now your thoughts please.

[Vissarion]

They are both very lackluster. I would go with extra Toughnesses over them easily.

You should have power attack regardless, though. Your attack bonus will be high enough at high levels (plus more with group buffs) that it provides an absolutely vital boost in Monk DPS.

If you're rolling up a Halfling Monk, you should have the following feats:

Toughness (multiple if you have the feat slots available)
Power Attack
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
Weapon Finesse (if Dex-based)
Stunning Fist (if you'll have a good Wisdom)

Other feats that can help are:

Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning
Halfling Dragonmarks
Combat Expertise
Dodge (the last two only if you aim to get a high AC, which isn't easy).

[Crazyfruit]

I love whirlwind attack on my monk. It also looks stupidly awesome.

I can't remember what Great Cleave's cooldown is like, but Whirlwind: 360 degree attack (with both weapons if TWF/unarmed), 6 second cooldown. You get ki from every target hit. It's slightly faster than cleaving with a different animation.

My monk is an AC build that gets into as big a fight as she can and just plain spams that thing. Very helpful playing that way. Not so much if you fight one on one

Your other questions depend on your playstyle/preferences so hard to answer. Spring Attack is nice on a monk who groups because you'll have to chase after monsters often (very short attack range), and you don't want those Touch of Deaths missing. On the other hand, if the choice is between that or power attack...

[ArichValtrahn]

Skip them both. The interrupt your attack chain and generally reduce DPS.

Unless you just want to look stupid awesome, then go for it.

[oweieie]

Both are junk

[Angelus_dead]

So far my debate boils down to
- Do I prefer dodge/spring attack or power attack
- Do I wanna use the 2 feats on dragonmarks
- Am I patient enough to wait for the higher number target payoff at a higher level
Now your thoughts please.

You must have Power Attack. If you do not have Power Attack then you're doing it wrong.

Dodge may have a little value. Spring Attack has much less value.

You do not want to use two feats on dragonmarks: you want to use either zero or three. The third mark is the good one.

Cleave is all the AOE melee that a monk should take, particularly if you're using it to qualify for Shintao. Great Cleave and Whirlwind are tremendous wastes if you already have Cleave anyhow, as all abilities of that type are of very low value.

Here is one of several threads discussing why Cleave-type feats have low value: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=211259
It isn't the best one, so maybe you should search for a more detailed description, or ask for help if you still don't see what's wrong with Cleave.

As a personal note, the reason I have Cleave on a character is so I can keep testing it after every patch to repeat my request that the developers fix Cleave to be worthwhile. I really enjoy the kind of gameplay involved in Cleave, and wish it were actually helpful in battles.

[byzantinebob]

They are both worthless on a monk, but the others don't seem to want to explain why. Your monk will attack stupidly fast. Your fists flying around will outdamage these feats. If you use these feats, they slow your normal attacks and actually lower damage.