Suggested New Class

[JonanTane]

DDO Eberron looks like it's ripe for a Warlock from Complete Arcane. Small selection of key ability spells that do not cost spell points, but you only get them with the same progression with which a fighter gains feats.

Perhaps also they would have 6 second individual cool downs similar to that of the Monk, but with a reverse energy method. Instead of building up the way the Monk does, perhaps warlock's energy pool of sorts would drain when using abilities. Except for Eldritch blast which would use none of their energy pool, but have a 6 second cool down.

The reason I say a 6 second cool down, is because that's how long a round in D&D is in time line. And thus this would similar how Warlocks can cast but one spell a round.

Or perhaps no energy reserve at all but a single universal 6 second cool down on all of their abilities. So that eldritch blast and every other ability would have a full round in between castings. This would actually be the most accurate way of implementing the warlock class and similar to it's table top counterpart. That way Warlocks can cast their spells an infinite number of times per day, but have a limited number available to them and can only cast one per round.

Warlock would offer slightly better protection and survivability than the Sorcerer or Wizard, with the ability to wear armor, d6 hit dice and built in damage reduction: but with fewer spells, a unified cool down to slow their spell flinging and A sacrifice in blasting ability for that increase to survivability.

The Warlock in DDO would ad a magic caster who's not quite so squishie, without it being the dominating powerhouse that Clerics tend to be. The Warlock would also be a magic caster that one could solo with more easily due to the increase in survivability.

It would make a nice stop-gap niche in between the uber blaster Warlock/Sorcerer squishies and the good luck killing me favored Soul/Clerics powerhouses. I'm already looking through the warlock evocation list, and I'm picking out ones that either already -have- a wiz/sorc spell in the game, as many warlock invocations mimic them. Or Invocations which would be easy to implement. I'll also list what D&D book each evocation is out of, for clarification.

The choices I made are not only easily compatible with the game, and easily within it's script structures, by using mechanics already present, but they also represent a nice range of abilities. I'll also post a codex so that you can see the book references and know what page the invocations are on in said books.



Name: Description. Book, page.

Codex:
Cityscape, (Ci)
Complete Arcane, (CAr)
Complete Mage, (CM)
Dragon Magic, (DM)


Least Invocations

All-Seeing Eyes: As comprehend languages on written
material, bonus on Search and Spot checks. CM, p123. (Adjust to just search and spot)

Beguiling Influence: Gain bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy,
and Intimidate checks. CAr, p132

Breath of the Night: Create a fog cloud as the spell. CAr, p132.

Call of the Beast: Speak with animals and influence their
behavior. CM, p123. (Same as Ranger)

Dark One’s Own Luck: Gain a luck bonus on one type of
saves. CAr, p133. (Choose save when selecting this invocation)

Eldritch Glaive: Form eldritch blast into reach weapon.
dragon magic, p82.

Eldritch Spear: Blast range increases to 250 feet. CAr, p133.

Frightful Blast: Target must make Will save or become
shaken. CAr, p134.

Hideous Blow: Melee attack channels eldritch blast. CAr, p134.

Leaps and Bounds: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump, and
Tumble checks. CAr, p134.

Otherworldly Whispers: Gain bonus on Knowledge checks. CM, p124.

See the Unseen: Gain see invisibility as the spell and
darkvision. CAr, p135.

Sickening Blast: Target must make Fortitude save or become
sickened. CAr, p135.

Swimming the Styx: Gain swim speed and ability to breathe
water. CM, p124.



Lesser Invocations

Baneful Blast: Eldritch blast deals extra damage against
specified creature type. CM, p123. (choose type upon sellecting ability at lvl up)

Beshadowed Blast: Target must make Fortitude save or become
blind for 1 round. CAr, p132. (6 seconds)

Brimstone Blast: Blast deals fire damage and target must make
Reflex save or catch fire. CAr, p132.

Charm: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend. CAr, p132.

Cold Comfort: You and nearby allies protected by endure elements. CM,

p123. (As Protection from Elements)

Curse of Despair: Curse one creature as the bestow curse
spell, or hinder their attacks. CAr, p132.

Deteriorating Blast: target of your Eldritch blast must succeed
on a fortude save or have his damage reduction reduced.
Dragon magic, p81.

Dread Seizure: target take suffers wracking pains, reducing
speed by half and inflicting penalty on ranged attacks. Fortitude
save ends. Dragon Magic, p82.

Eldritch Chain: Blast jumps from initial target to secondary
targets. CAr, p133.

Flee the Scene: Use short-range dimension door as the spell
, and leave behind a major image. CAr, p134. (As Teleport instead)

Hellrime Blast: Blast deals cold damage and target must make
Fortitude save or take –2 penalty to Dexterity. CAr, p134.

Ignore the Pyre: gain resistance to one energy type. Dragon magic, p82. (Choose when choosing this Invocation)

Relentless Dispelling: As targeted dispel magic, with additional
targeted dispel magic the next turn. CM, p124.

The Dead Walk: Create undead as the animate dead spell. CAr, p133. (As Summon instead)

Voracious Dispelling: Use dispel magic as the spell,
causing damage to creatures whose effects are dispelled. CAr, p136.

Walk Unseen: Use invisibility (self only) as the spell. CAr, p136.

Witchwood Step: Walk on water and move through some obstacles
unimpeded. CM, p124.



Greater Invocations

Bewitching Blast: Target must make Will save or be confused
for 1 round. CAr, p132. (6 seconds)

Devil's Whispers: As suggestion, plus subject believes his
actions are his own idea. Ci, p68.

Devour Magic: Use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch
and gain temporary hit points based on the level of spells
successfully dispelled. CAr, p133.

Eldritch Cone: Blast takes the shape of a cone. CAr, p133.

Eldritch Line: focus eldritch blast into a line attack.
Reflex save for half damage. Dragon magic, p82.

Hindering Blast: Target of your eldritch blast must succeed
on a Will save or be slowed for 1 round. CM, p123. (6 seconds)

Noxious Blast: Target must make Fortitude save or be nauseated.
CAr, p135.

Painful Slumber of Ages: Creature falls asleep, takes damage
when awakened. CM, p123.

Penetrating Blast: gain +4 to overcome spell resistance.
Dragon magic, p82.

Repelling Blast: Target must make Refl x save or be knocked back.
CAr, p135. (Knocked down instead, as trip)

Vitriolic Blast: Blast ignores spell resistance and deals
acid damage for several rounds. CAr, p136.

Wall of Perilous Flame: Create a wall of fire as the spell,
but half the damage from the wall results from supernatural power.
CAr, p136. (as Wall of Fire)



Dark Invocations

Binding Blast: Target of your eldritch blast must make Will save
or be stunned for 1 round. CM, p123. (6 seconds)

Caster's Lament: Your touch can break enchantment, and you can
counterspell. CM, p123.

Dark Foresight: Use foresight as the spell, and communicate
telepathically with a close target of the effect. CAr, p133.

Eldritch Doom: Blast affects all enemies within 20 feet. CAr, p133.

Path of Shadow: Use shadow walk as the spell and speed up
natural healing. CAr, p135.

Retributive Invisibility: Use greater invisibility as the spell
(self only) that deals damage in a burst if dispelled. CAr, p135.

Steal Summoning: Take control of another caster's summoned monster.
CM, p124.

[Rineth]

While more classes would always be cool, people have been clamoring for druid for some time. Being the only base D&D class not present in the game, it's what we'll probably get if they add anything new.

[Quarterling]

Druid first yes, but I would love to see either this or maybe even the Psion later in the future.

[Falco_Easts]

Love the work you put into the OP but give us Artificer first, then Druid then other classes.

[Angelus_dead]

DDO Eberron looks like it's ripe for a Warlock from Complete Arcane.

What makes you think that?

Complete Arcane Warlock = sustained ranged damage role
Sustained ranged damage = broken in DDO's design

As has been extensively and repeatedly documented, ranged combat in DDO is broken, primarily due to how it "does not stack" with melee combat. Because it doesn't play well with melee the devs haven't been able to make it balanced with melee. And due to a (correct) designer preference for melee, they made ranged underpowered in the large majority of situations, except in the minority of cases where it's overpowered. But it's almost never balanced.

It will not be appropriate to add a new class in the ranged DPS role until existing ranged DPS style charcters have first been fixed. What you have done is repeat a common mistake of inexperienced game designers: focus on how to translate the mechanics of a character type into the desired game system, without inspecting how that character would work in gameplay. That's a priority inversion; missing the forest for the trees.

[Angelus_dead]

Don't get me wrong: I like the idea of adding a Complete Arcane Warlock to DDO. That's why I analyzed it years ago, and am aware of the serious design obstacles standing in the way. Before a new arcane blaster or ranged damage class could be introduced, the game's existing arcane blasters and ranged damage classes need to be fixed.

Thus, a better choice for a new class would be one that fits in a gameplay role that is mostly already working, such as melee combatant (Hexblade) or divine healer (Druid).

It would make a nice stop-gap niche in between the uber blaster Warlock/Sorcerer squishies and the good luck killing me favored Soul/Clerics powerhouses. I'm already looking through the warlock evocation list, and I'm picking out ones that either already -have- a wiz/sorc spell in the game

For one example, you are basing the abilities of a proposed Warlock class as relative to those of existing Wizard and Sorcerer classes. But as described in recent threads those classes suffer from a design that is problematic in existing gameplay (to put it generously).

It would be a mistake to introduce a new feature whose balance is based on broken existing features.

A Warlock is a bit like a Sorcerer who has unlimited spellpoints but who's unable to use metamagic on his spells. The idea is that he'll cast more spells per quest, but be balanced by each spell being weaker. It sounds fine when you put it like that. But for a quick test of the viability you could try playing a Sorcerer character under those limitations, using a stack of Mnemonic Enhancer potions to simulate unlimited invocations. What you'll find is that it's an ineffective and boring way to play: take away Maximize and Empower from all the spells and you may as well be throwing daggers for all the DPS you'll get.

Warlock would offer slightly better protection and survivability than the Sorcerer or Wizard, with the ability to wear armor, d6 hit dice and built in damage reduction: but with fewer spells, a unified cool down to slow their spell flinging and A sacrifice in blasting ability for that increase to survivability.

It is incorrect to characterize those features as giving a meaningful survivability benefit. Wearing armor means you get enough AC so that monsters hit on 2-20 instead of just 2-20, DR/Cold Iron is negligible especially compared to Stoneskin or Ironskin Chant, and +40 hp is just a moderate buffer. To sacrifice blasting for those benefits is not a sensible tradeoff.

[Uryamore]

That's not the only possible warlock build. Hideous Blow, a nice weapon (maybe Elyd Edge for the CHA on to-hit), and you can build something that is (without any PrE boost) very similar to a warchanter bard in melee ability and crowd control variety, but trading your ironskin chants for unlimited uses of your CC.

(edit to correct sword name typo)

[Angelus_dead]

That's not the only possible warlock build. Hideous Blow, a nice weapon (maybe Elyd Edge for the CHA on to-hit)

Hideous Blow is hardly effective since you could use it no more often than regular Eldritch Blast. Instead you have to go to Eldritch Glaive to get the full attack rate of regular melee.

I'd suggest that DDO Warlocks get Eldritch Blow either free or cheaply, so they can mix in occasional arcane hits in the middle of standard melee (which would be most attractive to someone multiclassed as a warrior). Eldritch Glaive can be added as an Invocation choice (meaning to learn it requires passing up some other Invocation). Eldritch Glaive would summon a special weapon that causes your eldritch blast effect to trigger on every melee swing.

Eldritch Glaive is found in Dragon Magic, and provides an important change to the capabilities of the D&D 3.5 Warlock.

[JonanTane]

Angelus_dead. You raise some good points; but while thought out I'm not sure they're all valid. I'm not sure how much D&D you'd played: but it's *always* been the case that ranged combat lagged behind melee in terms of damage single target. Wiz/Sorc spells being the exception in two areas: 1, area affect spells to inflict a goodly amount of damage on many targets. and 2, the ridiculous 20d6 or better spells.

Garden variety fighter will ordinarily hit harder. lvl 4 Half orc fighter. 18 strength (+4), +4 bab. Great axe. Power attack. Weapon focus, Weapon specialization. = +6 to hit (3 power attack) and 15-24 damage. God forbid he land a crit, 42-72 dmg. Avg 19.

Compared to: lvl 4 Elf ranger. 18 Dex (+4), 16 strength (+3), +4 bab. +3 Longbow (yeah you -wish- you had that at lvl 4). Weapon focus. Point blank shot. Rapid shot. +7/+7 hit. 4-11/4-11. A possible 8-22 dmg output. Avg 15.

lvl 4 human wizard. Fireburst, 4d8 5 foot rdius. 4-32 dmg. Avg of 18.

And that is wizard's most powerful spell for that level.


Also, keep in mind, when Warlock functions as a blaster he's more along the lines of CC. Eldritch blast scales with lvl and it's often used as a way to manipulate the a battlefield by debuffing or harassing your opponents.

Of the Invocations I listed you can (if you beat their save) inflict any of the following conditions on your target.

-shaken. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

-Sickened. Mildly ill. A sickened character takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks.

-Blinded. Unable to see. A blinded character takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength and Dexterity based skill checks. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) relative to the blinded character.

-Reduce Damage reduction

-Minus 5 to ranged attacks

-Minus 2 penalty to Dexterity.

-Slowed. Causes an enemy to move at 50% speed, attack at a 30% slowed rate, and have a -1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A successful Will save negates this effect.

-Nauseated. The speed of a nauseated creature's movement, attacks, and other actions is greatly reduced. May be cured with a Heal spell.

-stunned.


It seems like you were paying all of your attention to Eldritch blast and it's capacity: It never becomes all that powerful for blasting. It maxes out at 9d6, but you can ad one Essence and one shape. So you can Chain it and hit up to 4 enemies, and make them all blind, slowed, etc. Or Hellrime it for an extra 2d6 (11d6 total) and if they fail their save then they have to take a full round action to put out the fire or they continue to burn for another 2d6 each round.

Plus keep in mind: you will almost always -hit- with your ranged attacks as well. A Ranger relies on base attack bonus, ability modifier, weapon focus, etc. etc. And is aiming at someone's AC, a warlock has a rogue's base attack bonus, and a decent Ability modifier, maybe weapon focus: and he's aiming at touch AC.

Dwarf Fighter, 12 agility (+1), wearing +3 full plate, and +2 tower shield: 28 AC. His touch AC however, 11. If he has the feat that allows his shield to ad to his Touch AC, then it's 17. And he has a very low reflex save unless he's taken extra feats specifically to boost it. So when a warlock Eldritch blasts him to set him on fire: that's going to be one hot tin plated dwarf who'll spend an entire round putting himself out.

That's an entire round uber tank spent doing nothing productive; not attacking, not defending, and if it's my Warlock, I'm just gonna do it again. If he ignores the flames and just takes the extra 2d6 round after round in order to attack me instead of doing nothing but putting out the flames: then I'll put up a wall of flames in between he and I. Then I'll inflict some other ailment on him so it takes extra time for him to move around the wall. the entire time I may be only doing 9d6, but he's not doing -anything- to me.

If he ends up nauseated or slowed: I can easily just outrun him and turn around blast him again every 6 seconds. He'll never even catch me. Or most affective against said fighter with said low reflex save: Repelling blast. I'll move in between being able to cast, and he'll spend half his round just standing back up. Meaning he'll never actually -reach- me.

Here's an idea; fighter, low will save: Painful slumber of the ages. Go a ways in the other direction: hellrime blast, 11d6, while sleeping he fails his save: and he's on fire plus he takes damage from being woken up from the painful slumber.

Assuming of course I don't simply go Invisible with walk unseen...

So it's true, as a blaster: Warlock never becomes all that powerful - but they do become very good at manipulating the board. Wizards and sorcerer's tend to be simple in gameplay. Meta-game it out with school specialization, meta feats, etc. etc. and maximize your primary arsenal. You could prepare almost nothing but fireball as a Wizard and do just fine.

Gets even less interesting with Cleric, prepare 2 earth elementals and an earthquake.

Warlock's have to be crafty and function with much more tactical expertise. However, if you do so, you can hinder opponents, do some blasting and since your splls don't have limitations: you can go the distance.

Keep in mind; that's the "blaster" warlock, which i don't even play in D&D. I can, but i don't prefer it.

I always liked Multi classing warlock with Barbarian or Fighter and maxing out either Eldritch glaive or Hideous blow. Take that half Orc fighter up top.

lvl 4 Half orc 1/fighter 3/warlock. 18 strength (+4), +3 bab. Great axe. Power attack. Weapon focus. +Hideous blow 2d6 (shape invocation). +Frightful blast (essence invocation).= +6 to hit (2 power attack). damage 13-34 and if the target fails will save then become shaken and suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

Also, keep in mind, under the "weapon like spells" rules of complete arcane, the extra damage from hideous blow (2d6 in this case) can crit for x2 damage. So if that attack crits, the pure weapon damage 11-22 will go x3. 33-66 plus an extra 4-24. making the crit from said attack anywhere from 37-90 dmg all tolled.

While that sounds ridiculously powerful: keep in mind, a rogue's sneak attack on just such an attack would be tripled with the normal weapon modifier. So a multi class rogue flanking someone and critting that same attack would do the same base damage but crit for: 39-102.

Now with hideous blow, I don't need to be flanking (like Rogue) but I don't get it at *all* in an anti magic zone. Plus, the Hideous blow will crit for less because it's damage has only a x2 modifier, as where a rogue's sneak attack critting on a x4 weapon will be ungodly.

The Eldritch glaive is also nice: 1 because it's a reach weapon that also threatens the area around you (like spiked chain), 2 because you are automatically proficient with it and 3 it does the same damage as your Eldritch blast.

Here's where Rules in the RAW become handy.

You can dual wield the Eldritch glaive, if you know the insides and outsides of the RAW really well.

Ordinarily you couldn't dual wield a Glaive, Why? The non business end isn't designed for it, so it counts as a "weapon of opportunity", which makes you suffer a -4 penalty, and not being designed to be used as a club it also has a chance of breaking on impact.

However: the Eldritch glaive, is made of energy, cannot be disarmed and can only be destroyed by effects which end magic such as dispel. Plus, unlike a normal weapon of opportunity: which you suffer a -4 penalty on for not being proficient with it, you are -automatically- proficient with the Eldritch glaive, so no penalty.

You pick up two weapon fighting, you can dual wield the Eldritch glaive and each end do the same damage as your Eldritch blast, and since Eldritch Glaive is a shape invocation, you can still put an essence on it. Imagine a multi classed Rogue/warlock with sneak attack and a high charisma making his targets blind or stunned: and getting sneak attack dice in full round attack actions while dual wielding. Plus: Eldritch Glaive aims at TOUCH AC, so you're very likely to hit.

It's referred to as a Glaivelock.

I always liked the Glaivelock and or the hideous blow route multiclassed fighter: because instead of picking up a bunch of blaster invocations it allowed my to pick up other stuff that would allow me to better control the area in which I was fighting. A really fun hybrid melee/controller.

Pick up stuff like:
Leaps and Bounds: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump, and
Tumble checks. CAr, p134.

See the Unseen: Gain see invisibility as the spell and
darkvision. CAr, p135.

Swimming the Styx: Gain swim speed and ability to breathe
water. CM, p124.

Charm: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend. CAr, p132.

Cold Comfort: You and nearby allies protected by endure elements. CM,
p123. (As Protection from Elements)

Flee the Scene: Use short-range dimension door as the spell
, and leave behind a major image. CAr, p134. (As Teleport instead)

The Dead Walk: Create undead as the animate dead spell. CAr, p133. (As Summon instead)


If you had a Cleric in the party: he'd probably be more than a little t'd that you were creating undead: but at a decent lvl you could control 3-4 undead for minutes on end. That was a -great- tactic to use because you could use it an unlimited number of times and any enemy you took down, touch, back in the fight and on your side. Perfect as a form of crowd control when dealing with fodder, even better when you take down something like a giant or a big bad guy in the middle of swarm fighting fodder.

As you swipe through the enemy numbers, you turn some of them to fighting for you instead. It can really turn the tide during a long battle. Because that's enemy's being taken down by more hands helping your side, and it's hits being soaked up by someone other than your party members. Plus, you can use them as your own fodder, so you can give the rogue someone to flank with nonstop, or the real blaster (wiz/sorc) can have 2-3 bodyguards the entire time, etc.

Combing walk unseen with flee the scene is a great combo because when you're dealing with an enemy caster who's causing lots of problems, you can go invisible, and get out of the fight, next round flee the scene in order to teleport behind the enemy who's causing the problems. Next round: you lay into him while he's flat footed. Being able to take out serious threats to the party like that: can make you very valuable.

There is all kinds of opportunity for a warlock to be a benefit to a party, and with their wide range of abilities and tactics, they would be a minor blaster which would be much more survivable than the Wiz/Sorc's but not as powerful -as- a blaster. However, they can make a very resilient hybrid caster/melee.

The only real bummer about the warlock, although you can make all these different builds which are really fun to play, and can ad serious flexibility to a party: even as 100% warlock and not multi classing at all, you only get 12 invocations and once you multi class you get even less unless you take the feat "Extra Invocation" a few times. So while it -can- be a really fun class to play with, it also takes a bit of know how in order to make a good build with it.

It's not necessarily noob unfriendly: so much as it can be easy to screw up. Thankfully any one invocation you don't like; you can change every other level so you're not stuck with something you don't like for too long. Or you can upgrade one invocation for a more affective one when you gain access to the next level of invocations. (Least to lesser, etc.)

Now having read all of the above: you can see what i meant when i said it's a stop-gap between the Wiz/Sorc and Favored Soul/Cleric. Warlock, used well, is a strategic class. You can be a melee with extra tricks up your sleeve and some ranged ability or you can be a nice ranged tactician who debuffs enemies and wreaks all kinds of havoc on the battlefield by controlling it.

[Aerendil]

IMO, I'd like to see an update focus ENTIRELY on player character additions.

- new races (Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Kalashtar, Shifter are some examples)
- new classes (Warlock, Druid, Psion, Psionic Warrior, Soulknife, Artificer, Hexblade are some examples)
- update/upgrade existing weapon and armour skins, allowing some customization (dyes, appearance tabs, etc.)
- allow a "dressing room" feature via AH so people can preview armour/items before they buy them
- add all remaining PrEs and make adjustments/tweaks on those already ingame with known issues
- introduce new spells/feats (U5 was decent for this, but more spells would be great)


Then wait a few months and give us a nice high-level expansion with more to do in the 15-20 range, including new raids. People will have their newly-levelled characters from the update above ready to go for these new raids.

Put your feet up, knowing you've just hooked your gamers for the next 6-12 months, guaranteed.
???
Profit.


*edit* - I'm sure people will argue that why I'm suggesting is FAR too much to cram into one game update.
I don't see why that should be the case. Every other MMO out there has really large, sweeping changes with their updates. Some of which are on an update scedule similar to Turbines (i.e. 3 or more a year).

[Uska]

Love the work you put into the OP but give us Artificer first, then Druid then other classes.

+1

agree on your class choices artificer/druid/maybe soulknife or other psionic class then about a trillion other classes then warlock the day before the shut the game down.

yeah I hate the warlock class

[KKDragonLord]

warlock ugh...

[JonanTane]

Trust me, I'd also like to see a Druid and as one poster pointed out: that's the only class from the original PHB that isn't in the game. So it should have first dibs on next new class to be added for that reason. And I personally am a huge fan of the Shapeshifter variant out of Players Handbook II.

There is however a problem with the prospect of druid in DDO. Currently, the game does not -have- a transformation mechanic inside it's code. There's no polymorph spell, there's no shape shifters or morphing of any kind inside DDO at all.

That, by the way, is why I didn't put Word of Changing on the warlock spell list. It uses Baleful Polymorph, which is when you polymorph another creature against it's will. All of the druid wild shape's are all forms of polymorph which currently DDO does not have.

The problem with requesting new classes in the game is that the Company putting out the product isn't going to want to do a lot of work when it's a low profit situation. There has to be some kind of genuine gain: it is after all a business. they're not going to put a lot of man hours programming, for no pay off.

Now if they had interest in putting out a pay-for expansion to DDO: that might have all kinds of new classes that they may actually code/script new game mechanics to produce. That could be a viable option.

However, since the game doesn't *have* a poly-morph mechanic in the game yet, they're unlikely to put it in for no real reason. It would involve a lot of work to first put in the code from stat changes, keeping 4-9 different stat sheets or keeping pages in the monsters manual was always a P.I.A. for druids. Try creating a full directory for each one to detail every single change inside the game. More over, event script btw is a glitch creating nightmare.

Then you'd have to create, from scratch, animations for every single possible change made available to the player. Which would involve countless hours of art designers and 3d modelers at work to create the animations. Top it off with sound effects: you're asking a company to put up thousands of dollars in man hours to make the Druid available.

If it were part of an expansion that you'd have to pay for to gain access to: much more likely.

[Angelus_dead]

Angelus_dead. You raise some good points; but while thought out I'm not sure they're all valid. I'm not sure how much D&D you'd played

For you to mention the my amount of D&D experience as if it matters indicates that you do not have enough DDO experience to make a correct evaluation. If you disagree with some of my statements you might want to explain why, or at least point out which ones they are.

but it's *always* been the case that ranged combat lagged behind melee in terms of damage single target.

How does that relate to whether a Warlock class is a good fit for DDO?

Or Hellrime it for an extra 2d6 (11d6 total) and if they fail their save then they have to take a full round action to put out the fire or they continue to burn for another 2d6 each round.

Hellrime Blast changes the effect to cold damage and applies a dexterity penalty. Brimstone Blast is the one that can ignite things for 2d6 fire damage, but considering the saving throw, resistance/immunity, and stacking that is a trivial benefit.

However, as already explained, details like that don't matter. You have to get the foundation down before it makes sense to look at the numbers for individual invocations, and the foundation is whether DDO has room for another arcane caster and ranged attacker.

Plus keep in mind: you will almost always -hit- with your ranged attacks as well.

That's another thing that is not relevant to the important questions (and it's also not something that's necessarily good to retain for the DDO version of the class).

However, for you to make that statement indicates a lack of experience with DDO. You apparently think that a Ranger in DDO might miss an attack if he rolls a natural 2. The reality is that a 95% hit rate for weapon attacks is a very useful approximation of PC attacks in DDO combat.

Also, keep in mind, under the "weapon like spells" rules of complete arcane, the extra damage from hideous blow (2d6 in this case) can crit for x2 damage.

Hideous Blow does not meet the criteria to be a weapon-like spell. For example, weapon-like spells cannot be things that apply strength bonus to damage.

While that sounds ridiculously powerful: keep in mind, a rogue's sneak attack on just such an attack would be tripled with the normal weapon modifier.

Is that supposed to be a joke? Critical Sneak Attack?? Know RAW inside and out? It must be a joke.

Ordinarily you couldn't dual wield a Glaive, Why? The non business end isn't designed for it, so it counts as a "weapon of opportunity"

There's nothing in the Eldritch Glaive invocation which allows you to treat it as an improvised weapon, or do anything with it aside from making as many touch attacks as your base attack bonus allows. The only attacks you can perform with an Eldritch Glaive are those granted strictly from BAB, or from AOOs. The invocation never says you can TWF with it, so you can't. The invocation also doesn't say you get an object you can do miscellaneous things with, so you can't.

Ordinarily you couldn't dual wield a Glaive, Why? The non business end isn't designed for it, so it counts as a "weapon of opportunity"

A "weapon of opportunity"? What language is your D&D book in?

Now having read all of the above: you can see what i meant when i said it's a stop-gap between the Wiz/Sorc and Favored Soul/Cleric.

Uh... at best it was a bunch of chitchat about some D&D 3.x gameplay scenarios, which is not at all indicative of what a Warlock class might accomplish when inserted into DDO.

Here's a pop quiz of DDO knowledge: What race is preferred to tank Suulomades?

[Angelus_dead]

I'll put it more briefly:

DDO Eberron looks like it's ripe for a Warlock from Complete Arcane.

Angelus_dead. You raise some good points; but while thought out I'm not sure they're all valid. I'm not sure how much D&D you'd played

The question of whether DDO is "ripe" for a Warlock class can only be answered by looking at what already exists in DDO now. The details of Warlocks in D&D does not contain that answer. I have a pretty high knowledge of DDO, and was actually better than Turbine's official designers at evaluating the Pale Master and Shintao class features. (However, that's not a very rare achievement because at least 10-20 other players also got it right)

So if you think Warlocks can work in DDO, great. How about start by looking at what they would do in DDO compared to a Sorcerer and an Arcane Archer?

[Igrovin]

While I don't like AD's air around him, I'd have to agree that he is right that Warlock isn't going to work out very well in DDO.

Not because the ranged attack vs melee or whatever other BS is thrown out. But the simple fact is..

You have a class that has an attack that will ALWAYS hit. Due to the flaw of allowing ranged touch attacks be you either dodge the beam or you get hit, the basic warlock attack will always hit. If it doesn't always hit, then you suffer the reverse of it. Imagine if you would, playing a rogue where you don't get weapon damage/str, only sneak attack damage. You cannot increase your chance to hit by taking feats. And you only get one attack every six seconds or so.

Unlike a wizard you cannot metamagic it. ect ect.

So it would be *blast* miss. *blast* miss. *blast* 3 points of damage. *blast* 8 points of damage. *blast* miss


Anycase, like others have said, before any other class, Druid and Artificer need to be done, simply because they are part of core and part of ebberon. (Though i'm not going to hold my breath in anticipation that they would be any good. The MMOisms run too deep in this game for that.)

[Angelus_dead]

While I don't like AD's air around him

I suggest you obey the rules of the forum.

Due to the flaw of allowing ranged touch attacks be you either dodge the beam or you get hit, the basic warlock attack will always hit. If it doesn't always hit, then you suffer the reverse of it. Imagine if you would, playing a rogue where you don't get weapon damage/str, only sneak attack damage. ... And you only get one attack every six seconds or so.

Yes, that's an obvious problem, but the the fix would not be too difficult, as long as you're willing to make necessary alterations to the D&D rules.

In my own Warlock suggestion, the start was to double the basic Eldritch Blast to 1d6/level, total 20d6 at level 20. To not do that makes it pretty inferior to the Rogue throwing a Returning Dart (which was mentioned above). And the time between Eldritch Blast would be reduced to 3 seconds, or even 2 (depending on the exact DPS needed). Items such as Potency and Arcane Lore would also apply to that damage, providing a bonus of over +50% damage, (or 75% if you make it Brimstone and get a Superior Inferno belt)

Other key details:
Chausible items are created in the random loot tables, which provide the expected bonuses to Eldritch Blast usage. When a Chausible is equipped you can cast Eldritch Blasts just by clicking the attack mouse button.
Eldritch Essences function as a fast-cast 20-minute self-buff which changes the effects of your Eldritch Blast and related abilities.
Hideous Blow does a single melee attack carrying Eldritch Blast effect.
Eldritch Glaive summons an item into your inventory which has an enhancement bonus of +1 per 3 levels, attacks with max(cha,str), and which causes your Eldritch Blast effect at 50% damage on every hit. (Obviously it can't be sold or given to other people)
A Hellfire prestige specialty is added, which temporarily increases your damage power at the cost of a temporary 1d3 penalty to constitution (which is not curable by standard means, unlike the silly Bind Nabrious thingies)

You cannot increase your chance to hit by taking feats.

Actually in D&D a Warlock can take Weapon Focus Eldritch Blast for +1, and the DDO adaptation may as well allow a feat to do the same thing. However, I'd take it further than that:
Any feats or items which increase the Evocation spell DC also cause a bonus on Eldritch Blast attack rolls.

In fact, my concept for DDO Eldritch Blast was to make it not an AC-ignoring Touch Attack at all. Instead give Eldritch Blast bonus BAB of +1 per 4 Warlock levels, add the enhancement bonus from any Chausible item you've equipped, and also that bonus from Evocation focus. That would make it easier to balance against weapon-using classes.

[Angelus_dead]

Not trying to stop discussion here, because it's fun to consider how you'd try to adapt Warlock to the DDO environment. However, here are some warlock threads from 2008, 2009, 2009, and 2010.

[xanvar]

I think this thread should win for the longest Point/Counter Point posts. Good job all.

[Aashrym]

I don't mind the warlock idea, but I would much rather see druids and artificers first.