Pale Master/Rogue Build Help <(~_~)>

[exactor_mortis]

Just confused em even more..

At this point, you're starting to reach the realm of asking for objective answers to subjective subjects. There's +'s and -'s to each of those decisions and the best anyone can do is tell you what they would choose and why.

At this point, I wouldn't really worry much about getting the Necro focus too soon. Not all that many necromancy spells before level 6 to make it worth buying the necromancy focus any sooner than you have to for the PrE anyway.

[Phidius]

Just confused em even more..

Ok so what im mainly tryign to decide on is wether or not to go human or drow and wether or not to take the extra rogue lvl for evasion or dont take it for the spell penetration?
...

If you're going to take one level of rogue for traps, then you must take the 2nd for evasion. The loss of 1 Spell Pen is nothing compared to gaining Evasion.

it seems to me that drow and human are basically as good at each other.. drow having more int (insert wateva else they get ) and humans getting and extra feat and spell point ( insert wateva extra they get )

I can say i would like the extra feat as i would be able to take necromancer spell focus earlier and the points for disable and stuff then again the extra int that drows get is tempting also drows get keen senses and stuff..

So im generally confused.. some more insight into the two would be helpfull thanks for all of your help and time put into helping mee =)

I would go Human for the healing amp and extra feat, even as a 28pt build.

Just out of curiosity, why are you not considering WF?

[Darkrok]

Except WF Wizards get awesome self healing from level 1 (level 2 if splashing 2 rogue). At any level in the game, self healing from being WF > self healing from being PM.

Exactly. That's part of the reason I nixed the idea of going PM at least at CL:14 on my WF'd wizard/rogue. The tight enhancements + superior self healing talked me out of the enhancement. For a drow though it would be a good draw.

[Nexicus]

Well i'm new to DDO so i dont have it on any server.. and i currently dont ahve any money to buy vip or anything.

Otherwise i would consider goign WF..i think that im goign to make 2 builds with the char maker.. 1 with human and 1 for drow and see which one you guys like best.. its gonna take me a bit coz im still kinda confused at using the char creator so i'll get bakc to you ppls.

[Ryiah]

I'm quite certain that at some point I'm going to need to stop meleeing...and I've no hesitation about popping a LR+3 to swap over to full on Wizard at that point. There may well be an intermediate period where I still want the rogue skills, but not interested in melee all that much. LR works just swimmingly for that.

You're making the assumption though that he can afford to LR at a later stage. Not everyone has a lot of money to dump on a game like this. Just reading his initial post granted isn't enough to assume he can't afford it. However, seeing the amount of content these days VIP, which isn't that expensive and yet he lacks, can be pretty reasonable for one month or two just to get a grasp for what content is worth having. Add that he doesn't have 32-point builds and only has 500 points, plus the fact that he just recently mentioned he can't afford VIP, its fairly safe to assume he also can't afford LR. Certainly not LR+3.

Your build probably works great for you. But I just can't advise a newcomer to consider meleeing unless their build has it up to level 20. They're better off learning the class, and the game, before they attempt that.

[Nexicus]

Ok after ages ive found out that i like the idea of a 2 rogue/18 wiz .. but im still pondering whether i should go drow or human.. any thoughts??

[exactor_mortis]

You're making the assumption though that he can afford to LR at a later stage. Not everyone has a lot of money to dump on a game like this. Just reading his initial post granted isn't enough to assume he can't afford it. However, seeing the amount of content these days VIP, which isn't that expensive and yet he lacks, can be pretty reasonable for one month or two just to get a grasp for what content is worth having. Add that he doesn't have 32-point builds and only has 500 points, plus the fact that he just recently mentioned he can't afford VIP, its fairly safe to assume he also can't afford LR. Certainly not LR+3.

Your build probably works great for you. But I just can't advise a newcomer to consider meleeing unless their build has it up to level 20. They're better off learning the class, and the game, before they attempt that.

That's fair enough.

I guess I was going under the, perhaps broken, assumption that the points he earns along the way could be put toward the LR's.

[Syldra]

Ok after ages ive found out that i like the idea of a 2 rogue/18 wiz .. but im still pondering whether i should go drow or human.. any thoughts??

of those, human is the stronger choice.
compared to drow, they've got:
+3 Con
-1 Int
-2 cha (the badness of this can be more than overcome by picking up SF:UMD)
human skill boost (handy, but normally unnesscary)
+10 hp from an additional toughness enhancement
enhancements to boost healing recieved.
bonus feat

however, if you still want to go PM, i would prolly recommed dwarf.
compared to human they offer:
+3 con
-1 int
-2 cha (this hampers the dwarf's potenial to self-heal by 5%. guess what PM covers? you still need max UMD tho.)
superior saves (up to.. +5? i think.)
superior balance (+4, at least)
+10 hp from a 4th toughness enhancement, although it's a bit pricey
-1 feat
-1 skill pt/level

for these, i'm assuming you don't have access to WF, which is the Just Plain Better(tm) race for tinkers.

[GhoulsTouch]

See if anyone can come up with the same kind of numbers I got you for your skills and stats as a human.
Don't hear anything about gear just straight naked build numbers.

[Phidius]

See if anyone can come up with the same kind of numbers I got you for your skills and stats as a human.
Don't hear anything about gear just straight naked build numbers.

I'd try, but I don't agree with your investment in skills so it would just be confusing.

Consider instead, though, that a human with 18 int would have the same skill ranks as a drow with 20 - because humans get the extra skill point per level.

Drow can invest 10 AP for +4 Spot and 10 more AP for a +4 Search.

On the other hand, Humans can use their free feat to gain +2 to Disable Device and Open Lock - not that I recommend it, however - it's just not needed.

[Phidius]

Here's a Human version of the Wiz/Rog, only I threw Bard in there too.

1. If you're going to lose the Wizard capstone, 17 levels of wizard gives you the same DC on your spells as 19 levels. 17 versus 18 levels means one less for Spell Penetration.

2. Bard at level 5 means Cure Serious wands at level 5 with no UMD check.

3. Bard's also get UMD as a class skill, so was easier to keep UMD at full ranks.

4. With 23 ranks in the Perform skill, the Fascinate ability will have a DC of 43 (23 ranks + 15 item + 4 GH + 1 luck) + 1d20. Most mobs can't muster a 44 Will save, let alone the potential 63.

5. Cure Light with Sup Potency will be a nice-to-have in between undead forms.

6. Tomes were put in at level 20 just to get an even stat with +6 items on.

7. Not a big fan of Pale Master, but I put it in the build anyway. I didn't include the summons, though.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32
DDO Character Planner Home Page

F2P 
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 17 Wizard \ 1 Bard) 
Hit Points: 228
Spell Points: 1359 
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         4                    20
Diplomacy             4                     4
Disable Device        8                    32
Haggle                4                     4
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  5                     5
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             3                     3
Perform               n/a                  24
Repair                4                     9
Search                8                    32
Spot                  3                     3
Swim                  4                     4
Tumble                0                     0
Use Magic Device      4                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+8)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Level 16 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III

In a nutshell, though...

Stats
Hit Points: 358 = 20 (Heroic Durability) + 68(wiz) + 12(rog) + 6(bard) + 140(Con) + 22(toughness) + 20(Minos Legens) + 30 (enhancements) + 10 (Draconic Vitality) + 30 (GFL)
Spell Points: 1459+ = 1359 (planner - not including +6 Int item) + 100 (magi item)
Fortitude: 20 = 5(wiz) + 0(rog) + 0(bard) + 7(con) +3(spell) + 4(GH) + 1(luck)
Reflex: 30 = 5(wiz) + 3(rog) + 2(bard) + 12(int) +3(spell) + 4(GH) + 1(luck)
Will: 22 = 10(wiz) + 0(rog) + 2(bard) + 1 (wis) +3(spell) + 4(GH) + 1(luck) + 1 (rage)

Abilities (28 point)
Str: 20 = 12 (base) + 6 (item) + 2 (rage)
Dex: 14 = 8 (base) + 6(item)
Con: 24 = 14 (base) + 1(AP) + 1(tome) + 6 (item) + 2 (rage)
Int: 34/36 = 18 (base) + 5 (levels) + 4(AP) +1 (tome) + 6(item) = 34 + 2(Lich Form) + 36
Wis: 12 = 8 (base) + 4(spell)
Cha: 16 = 10 (base) + 6 (item)

Skills
Concentration: 44 = 17 (ranks) + 7 (con) + 15(item) + 4(GH) + 1(luck)
Balance: 26 = 4 (ranks) + 2(dex) + 15 (item) + 4(GH) + 1(luck)
Diplomacy : 4 (ranks)
Disable Device: (65 - 84) = 23 (ranks) + 12 (int) + 15 (item) + 4 (GH) + 1(luck) + 7 (tools) + 2 (skill boost) + 1d20
Haggle: 4 (ranks)
Hide: 4 (ranks)
Jump: 43 = 4 (ranks) + 30 (spell) + 4(GH) + 5 (Str)
Move Silently: 4 (ranks)
Open Lock: (36 - 55) = 4 (ranks) + 2(dex) + 15 (item) + 4 (GH) + 1 (luck) + 7 (tools) + 2 (skill boost) + 1d20
Perform: 46 = 23 (ranks) + 3 (cha) + 15 (item) + 4 (GH) + 1 (luck)
Search: 57 = 23 (ranks) + 12 (int) + 15 (item) + 4 (GH) + 1(luck) + 2 (skill boost)
Spot: 25 = 4 (ranks) + 15 (item) + 1(wis) + 4 (GH) + 1 (luck)
Swim: 11 = 2 (ranks) + 4(GH) + 5 (Str)
Tumble: 4 = 2 (ranks) + 2(dex)
UMD = 34/39 = 23 (ranks) + 3 (cha) + 3 (item) + 4(GH) + 1 (luck) = 34 + 5 GS Concordant Opposition = 39

Equipment (standard)
Head: Minos Legens
Necklace: Golden Cartouche
Cloak: Charisma +6
Belt: Con+6 + GFL (Amrath belt)
Ring1: Concentration + 15/Open Lock +15
Gloves: Dex + 6
Boots: Balance +15
Ring2: Int +6
Bracers: Str + 6
Armor: Deathblock of Invulerability robe (or whatever)
Goggles: Spot/Search/Disable + 15

[Kolok]

I too am about to build my first pale master. And as you can see, my skills in Necromancy are already quite advanced. (Hopefully the basic building blocks of a Wiz are similar now, even in light of U9) Sorry, but this dated post was the only one I could find with useful info pertaining to a new PM with rogue splash. There is an excellent breakdown of pure Wiz PMs by Leloric on the front page, but much of that is a little beyond the scope of a newb.

Well, I'm fairly new to DDO, but not brand new. I have a mid level pally that is great for a first toon, but I traditionally play arcane spellcasters and recently got vet status so figured the time is now. I don't yet have 32 pt build so I'm definitely going with a Drow. I've had my heart set on Drow anyways, so this just makes it easier.

First off, many thanks to Aztek, Phidius, Exacter, JohnWarlock and all the other vets who have offered their perspective here, as many of us would be pretty lost in the void otherwise.

Here is my WIP build. (It's quite similar to the one by Ghoulstouch which I used as a base). I took Maximize and Insightful Reflexes sooner than Extend and SF: Necro though. Something I gathered from Leloric's seemingly expert post on building an endgame Epic content Drow Palemaster. However, mine is just a first life Drow PM and I want to make sure I'm not over applying LeLoric's endgame advice to my non-TR'd character.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.3 (Pre-Release)
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 1438 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         20                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     5
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         2                    21
Diplomacy             4                     4
Disable Device        9                    33
Haggle                4                     4
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  4                     4
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  4                     9
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         4                     4
Open Lock             4                    18
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                5                     9
Search                9                    27
Spot                  3                    12
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      4                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Spell (1): Burning Hands
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (1): Master's Touch
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Chill Touch
Spell (1): Magic Missle


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Jump


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Lesser Death Aura


Level 5 (Wizard)
Spell (2): Command Undead
Spell (2): Knock


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (3): Rage
Spell (3): Haste


Level 7 (Wizard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Frost Lance


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Death Aura


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Wizard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (4): Negative Energy Burst


Level 11 (Wizard)
Spell (5): Cone of Cold
Spell (5): Break Enchantment


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (4): Ice Storm


Level 13 (Wizard)
Spell (6): Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI


Level 14 (Wizard)
Spell (6): Circle of Death
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (7): Banishment
Spell (7): Finger of Death


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Spell (7): Mass Protection From Elements


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistable Dance


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (8): Mass Repair Critical Damage
Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII


Level 19 (Wizard)
Spell (9): Power Word: Kill
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Knight
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Knight
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Knight
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith

The summon skeleton enhancements are just for fun, while leveling, and those pts can be redistributed later.
I listed my spells, (I know it's pointless, since u can inscribe). But since I rez'd an old thread that has already covered much about feats and enhancements. Perhaps we can get some discussion on some of the most useful spells for a PM on their first play through, taking into consideration that their DC won't be as high as a TR.

Speaking of TR'ing. How much does the Wiz past life feat work in terms of building a significantly more Epic capable future version of my Palemaster? (Just a note: I do plan at least one TR, but the XP hike is substantial enough compared to my play schedule that I don't want to spend too much time on foresight because I don't yet honestly know how many times I will TR any character). To clarify my question though, I realize a first life Wiz won't have the DC of a TR, but is the difference staggering enough in endgame that a non-TR Palemaster 18/rogue 2 is gonna be heavily gimped in Crowd Control (gear aside)?

Would taking the Greater Spell Pen feat make enough difference to give up Quicken? Or Mental Toughness? (though as for the latter, I do plan on at least trying out Wraith form before making that call). Imp. Mental Toughness just flat out doesn't seem worth it to me though, but I don't know how mana intensive the game gets for Wizards yet.

Also how much Nuking will I be doing from lvl 15 onward? Sorcs tend to out nuke Wizards, but I've seen like 5 times as many Wizzys as there are Sorcs in game though. So I'm guessing Wizards, even Pale Masters are going to have to play nuker at times.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[unbongwah]

First off, your version of the builder is way out of date; it doesn't have the latest changes to PM etc. Go DL the new one.

Second, if you really want to mess with summoning "just for fun" while leveling, consider taking Augment Summoning as your 1st metamagic. Then when you get bored of it (read as: realize how gimp summoning is in DDO ), swap it out for Maximize or whatever.

Third, before picking your spells, have a look at this list of scrolls and pick the spells which can't be bought from vendors first. One tip is to buy all the scrolls you can before you level and inscribe them; that way you won't accidentally pick one you could've bought instead.

[Kolok]

First off, your version of the builder is way out of date; it doesn't have the latest changes to PM etc. Go DL the new one.

Second, if you really want to mess with summoning "just for fun" while leveling, consider taking Augment Summoning as your 1st metamagic. Then when you get bored of it (read as: realize how gimp summoning is in DDO ), swap it out for Maximize or whatever.

Third, before picking your spells, have a look at this list of scrolls and pick the spells which can't be bought from vendors first. One tip is to buy all the scrolls you can before you level and inscribe them; that way you won't accidentally pick one you could've bought instead.

Thank u very much for the link. I knew my character sheet builder was out of date since U9 at least. I just couldn't remember where I found it, someone gave me a link before and I lost track of it.

I knew my version didn't have zombie and vampire forms. I guess I should have pointed that out. I've heard zombie form suuuucks. But I hear vamp is good circumstantially. I knew about the Drow SR changes too, so I figured the few pts I put in Imp. SR there would in reality used to be covered vamp form and whatever else.

But, I didn't realize how much had changed overall. I flat out did NOT know the different spell line types were broken down into individual enhancements for each line (for wizards at least, I honestly thought that was just a Sorcerer thing which coincided with their Savants). So now I must ask: Which line would you guys recommend boosting? I was thinking Cold, or perhaps Fire early, then Cold or Force late game.

And yeah, from what I've seen and heard summoning is more or less a novelty in DDO. I figured it might be cool during some of the undead based instances in which Pale Masters might need a little extra help. But I had no plans to keep the summon skellies for endgame.

Definitely a good heads up on the spells. I thought you could buy all the lower level spells from vendors at least, but alas apparently not. Also, are there any scrolls that not only can't be bought, but simply don't drop anywhere either?

Thanx again!

[unbongwah]

About the only things zombie has going for it is DR 5/slash and it's the first undead form you get, so it's the first form you can use to self-heal (if not WF). Vamp reduces your threat & boosts your Enchantment DCs, although whether that's more useful than wraith (25% incorporeal) is probably situational.

If a scroll can't be bought, then it must drop from somewhere - otherwise it wouldn't exist! A better question is: are there any arcane spells not available as scrolls? And I don't know the answer to that one; my guess would be all spells are available in scroll form, but I won't swear to that.

[Alektronic]

If you were gonna go fleshie PM/rogue, I would recommend drow as a race for the 20 int. Int is essential for a wizard, but even moreso for a wizard/rogue, because high even int means more skill points and better disabling skills. Drow also get the search enhancement lines, which helps make up for lack of gear, and later on, epics.

Basically, something like 20 int, 14 con, 10 str... same feats/skill raises/ etc... that most other people have recommended. As a drow, also take the search enhancment line as well. PM/rogue has been one of my fav toons to date. Hope you enjoy it.

EDIT: Just to stress it further... Drow get a bonus +7 search (+2 racial feat, +4 enhancement bonus, +1 int mod--> same as human). Other races also can squeeze in bonuses, but none as cost-effective as drow imo.

[DukePe]

So.. All these are talking about splashes. What about going deep?

I am thinking: 12 pm 8 Rogue? And perhaps assasin or acrobat?

~~DukeP~~