+6 All Saves or CL 13 Blade Barrier?

[Oversouldgg]

I'm working on a multiclass build and I can't decide where to put my last level. The character is a solo build mainly melee focused with self healing/buffing abilities. My options are a CL 13 Blade Barrier or +6 to all saves and no Blade Barrier at all. Like I said, it's more of a melee/healing build, but I'm sure BB would come in handy even at caster lvl 13 (especially with maximize, which I would only take if I was getting BB). Thoughts as to which would ultimately be more valuable in solo play?

[Gercho]

It would help us to advice you if you gave your full class breakdown to us, not just a few details that guarantee that any advice would be incomplete...

[Oversouldgg]

I realize that. But from my experience, that just opens to door for jerks to start flaming. Too many people completely ignore the question being asked and instead talk about all the ways in which they think the build will fail. Other people will offer up entirely different builds using different classes, which doesn't answer the OP question either. So I'll leave it at the question.

I just want to know, in theory, which is more valuable to a self-healing melee class, +6-7 to all saves and no blade barrier at all, or the ability to cast a maximized lvl 13 blade barrier.

[talyor]

I realize that. But from my experience, that just opens to door for jerks to start flaming. Too many people completely ignore the question being asked and instead talk about all the ways in which they think the build will fail. Other people will offer up entirely different builds using different classes, which doesn't answer the OP question either. So I'll leave it at the question.

I just want to know, in theory, which is more valuable to a self-healing melee class, +6-7 to all saves and no blade barrier at all, or the ability to cast a maximized lvl 13 blade barrier.

depends on your build. we cant give you an informed answer without all the facts.

[kernal42]

It's necessary to know more about the build. For example, if your saves are all at -10, or all at +40 already, then +6-7 doesn't help much. Similarly, BB will help soloing a lot if you don't have other good forms of damage; it'll help far less if you plan to wade into melee regularly.

Cheers,
Kernal

[RioRussell]

Assumptions:
No Quicken, No Extend, L13 BB with no potency item, will be in a 'melee' mode most of the time.

Don't bother with the BB. Your Wis will probably not be high enough to get a good DC, and with only Maximize, the damage output won't be high enough to warrant running them in a circle for a few minutes until it finally kills them. If you do have quicken/extend, then you won't have the sp to use your BB for meaningful damage and also for healing.

If you are going to melee, don't bother with any spell damage at all, just use your sp for healing. Plus having to switch between a potency item and a weapon is clumsy.

multiclassing rule #1: Trying to be great at a lot of things usually makes you mediocre at all of them.

good luck!

[andreascott89]

I agree with the "it depends" answer.

However, if you made me answer with no additional information, I would lean towards blade barrier over +6/7 to saves.

Answers based on minimal information are not worth much, but there you go!

JS

[RioRussell]

one other item: feel free to PM me your build idea if you want a genuine critique of pros/cons.

[oberon131313]

gonna go with what Rio says, between the mass amounts of saving that high end mobs (GH, Vale, Shavarath, etc.) will do and a lack of feats to make it actually worth it, go for the saves.

[Oversouldgg]

I appreciate people taking the time to think about the actual question and give answers. So I'll be nice and open the flame doors.


Human Favored Soul 12 or 13/Monk 6/ X1 or 2
STR 16
DEX 14 +1 lvl up for 15 base
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 14

+2 all Tome at lvl 7

FEATS (not in order)
H. Extend Spell
M1. TWF
M2. PA
M6. Toughness
1. ITWF
3. OTWF (ditch for Maximize if I need WF:S)
6. WF:S (not sure if I'll need it or if the FS ability will count, ditch for Maximize if I don't need it)
9. WSS (monk Longsword feat)
12. IC:S
15. Empower Healing
18. Quicken


The idea is self healing/buffing from Favored Soul Levels. Attack speed with Longswords from monk's wind stance. The last two levels in questions can either go to Paladin for +AC and +Saves, or can go 1 FS for bladebarrier and then probably 1 Rogue for UMD.

This is meant for solo play.

I may need to work dodge in there if I want Ninja Spy, mainly for increased Ki regeneration and the concealment. OTWF would probably get cut. Just realized that I don't think I'll have the BAB for GTWF, so that would probably get cut.

[Seamonkeysix]

***EDIT-You posted your idea **********

Ok. Based on that info, I would definitely say you should take empower and not empower healing. You also need maximize. You are really focusing in on a self healing melee, and the empower and maximize will help your BB and healing. Monk has good saves and so does FvS. BB is definitely the way to go.

You might think about his build as an elf. You will get the elven damage and attack lines, and that will up your longsword damage. You don't need OTWF or WF: S. You will get full BAB with the longswords (well, for your monk levels at least). You will also have divine favor, divine power (getting you full BAB in most situations). You could build this with decent AC, and with the evasion and what not, kite stuff through the BB while soloing and beat on more managable mobs when BB isn't needed. The elven dex will be another bonus for this build.

I'd go with your idea of 13 FvS/6 Monk/1 Rogue. True soloing needs rogue skills in many instances. Also, the SA damage won't hurt when you are in a group.

[Oversouldgg]

If I do go with the BB build, I could take Wiz1 for the bonus Magic Feat and the shield spell, I do realize I'd need a +INT item to cast it though.

[Oversouldgg]

***EDIT-You posted your idea **********
You might think about his build as an elf. You will get the elven damage and attack lines, and that will up your longsword damage. You don't need OTWF or WF: S. You will get full BAB with the longswords. You will also have divine favor, divine power and you can use BB.

Definitely going Elf. Thanks.

[SisAmethyst]

If I do go with the BB build, I could take Wiz1 for the bonus Magic Feat and the shield spell, I do realize I'd need a +INT item to cast it though.

I don't know, generally mixing arcane with divine spell casters is the worst thing one can do. That shield spell comes as well as a clicky or can be scroll cast and as soon as you have items with +4AC, +5Protection and so on this level 1 spell becomes useless at all, and being the first that is being dispelled anyway. Keep in mind that if you get 1 level of wizard and 19 levels of an other caster your spells always only being considered as being cast from a lvl 1 character, regardless of your real character level.
The higher your caster level the higher the difficulty check to resist you BB, so I guess I would stay on the divine caster side instead.

[Phidius]

If it helps any, the one rogue level will boost your reflex by 2, the one wiz level would boost your Will by 2, and the 2 paladin will boost your fortitude by 3.

Unless your build is very short on feats (forcing you to give up Maximize/Empower/Extend/Quicken), I'd advice Rogue for the max ranks in UMD. You can always UMD 10 minute Shield wands. That's what Stryde does, at least.

Otherwise, taking 1 Wizard to get 2 minutes shields and double-fast, double-long, or double damage boost wouldn't be a bad idea.

I can't imagine Stryde without Quicken, Extend, or Maximize.

[Oversouldgg]

I don't know, generally mixing arcane with divine spell casters is the worst thing one can do. That shield spell comes as well as a clicky or can be scroll cast and as soon as you have items with +4AC, +5Protection and so on this level 1 spell becomes useless at all, and being the first that is being dispelled anyway. Keep in mind that if you get 1 level of wizard and 19 levels of an other caster your spells always only being considered as being cast from a lvl 1 character, regardless of your real character level.
The higher your caster level the higher the difficulty check to resist you BB, so I guess I would stay on the divine caster side instead.

Shield will stack with +4 AC items, unless it is also a shield. The spell stacks with armor, bracers, and rings, just not physical shields. Plus with extend spell and the robe from the catacombs, it'll last 6 minutes. But true, there are shield clickies, the main point of possibly taking wiz was for the bonus metamagic feat and some extra sp.

[Phidius]

Shield will stack with +4 AC items, unless it is also a shield. The spell stacks with armor, bracers, and rings, just not physical shields. Plus with extend spell and the robe from the catacombs, it'll last 6 minutes. But true, there are shield clickies, the main point of possibly taking wiz was for the bonus metamagic feat and some extra sp.

Extended Shield is OK, but I really enjoy extended Divine Favor, Divine Power, Recitation, and Bladebarrier. Not having to cast all the other buffs every 13 minutes is nice too, but those short duration spells can be a pain.

However, I have to ask a question - what is your level 20 AC going to be at? FvS can already cast Nightshield for Magic Missle immunity, so unless you're gonna push your AC up into the 60s self buffed (minimum IMHO), you may not want to worry about Shield.

[Oversouldgg]

Also, not entirely sold on Elf after thinking about it more.


Human
+20 HP (CON)
+30% Healing
+ bonus feat

Elf
+1 AC (DEX)
+1 AB/Damage (I know you get +2 from enhancements, but the human can get +2 STR)

[oweieie]

Take anything and TR immediately.

[Oversouldgg]

I can't imagine Stryde without Quicken, Extend, or Maximize.

As a monk, I'll have my concentration skill maxed out since it's tied to ki. Do you think I'll still need Quicken?