So Holy Sword Charging Energy Cells Was a Bug

[dkyle]

double strikes can proc offhand attacks too (or offhands proc doubles strikes, not sure which it was), thats why fighters and palas with zeal have 110%/88%

so new zeal is like the old one

Are you sure?

From when the TWF/THF-nerf was announced:

A character with a double strike chance has a chance to make an additional attack roll with their main hand weapon any time they make a main hand attack, on the target of the first attack. (Note that two handed weapons count as “in the main hand” for these purposes.)

The Fighter Alacrity capstone, and the Paladin spell Zeal would be changed to a +10% bonuses to double strike.
A TWF Paladin that Smites something under the effect of Zeal would attack with the main hand, have a 10% chance to attack with the main hand again, and would have a chance (based on TWF feats) to attack with the off hand in one sequence.

Sounds like it maxes at three attacks per sequence. I know I've never noticed a quadruple smite or divine sacrifice on my Pali.

Did they change their minds?

[Visty]

Are you sure?

yes

[dkyle]

yes

I linked a Dev comment that clearly indicates that double strike only applies to the main hand. "Additional attack roll with their main hand weapon." The chart at the bottom of Eladrin's post also says 80% offhand proc rate with Zeal.

Care to link something substantive that contradicts that?

[Visty]

I linked a Dev comment that clearly indicates that double strike only applies to the main hand. "Additional attack roll with their main hand weapon." The chart at the bottom of Eladrin's post also says 80% offhand proc rate with Zeal.

Care to link something substantive that contradicts that?

well, as i said, then its the double strike proccing another offhand attack

and no, i wont skim through that 188page thread for the quote

€: actally, its in the first already

Off-hand attacks would have a chance to proc on any main hand attack now

[Lorien_the_First_One]

not to stir anything up but that is your absolute personal opinion and quite "interesting" at that. ALL the classes can do things other classes can not do. otherwise there would be only one class to begin with. including crafting projectiles, weapons, teleportation etc. anyway, too much hype about a rather insignificant change tbh.

also, a change to the description of holy swords hardly says "what you can do with holy swords has been changed".

Oh please, it was clearly an exploit. The idea was you had to sacrifice a real weapon to charge the cell. A temporarily enhanced weapon doesn't fit that thematically (unless you want your GS to be temporary) nor does it fit from the "remove items from circulation" point of view that was part of the stated purpose when the GS system went live.

You were cheating.

The fact that a lot of people cheated doesn't change that it was cheating. Just like free boots, cracks in the walls, summoned monsters, and many other commonly used (and sometimes long duration) past exploits.

[dkyle]

€: actally, its in the first already

That quote's clearly in the context of explaining that each attack in the chain now has an equal chance of having an offhand attack instead of the offhand attack being tied to a particular step in the chain. We already know that a doublestike main hand attack is treated differently than a normal main hand or else double strikes could trigger more double strikes.

If you're right, why would the chart at the bottom of the post include the double strike for main hand, but not for offhand, for Zeal?

edit: created a new thread on this topic: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...76#post3221176

[Visty]

If you're right, why would the chart at the bottom of the post include the double strike for main hand, but not for offhand, for Zeal?

for the same reason inferno clickys state 50% i guess: its turbine

[Seelowe]

Oh please, it was clearly an exploit. The idea was you had to sacrifice a real weapon to charge the cell. A temporarily enhanced weapon doesn't fit that thematically (unless you want your GS to be temporary) nor does it fit from the "remove items from circulation" point of view that was part of the stated purpose when the GS system went live.

You were cheating.

The fact that a lot of people cheated doesn't change that it was cheating. Just like free boots, cracks in the walls, summoned monsters, and many other commonly used (and sometimes long duration) past exploits.

you clearly did not read or understand what I was saying/responding to.

[SteeleTrueheart]

double strikes can proc offhand attacks too (or offhands proc doubles strikes, not sure which it was), thats why fighters and palas with zeal have 110%/88%

so new zeal is like the old one

Apart from the obvious math (New zeal +10%/+8% =/= Old zeal +10%/ +10%)
I personally have never seen a quadruple attack and I play paladins almost exclusively. Assuming it did work then basically (1*0.8*0.1*0.8 = 0.064) 6% of the time you should quadruple attack.

I will pay more attention now, but I do not believe it is possible, but I have seen quite a few triple smites and even triple crit smites. I have seen literally a plethora of triple divine sacrifice attacks especially against shroud portals where the light damage is easy to see proc.

[herzkos]

Oh please, it was clearly an exploit. The idea was you had to sacrifice a real weapon to charge the cell. A temporarily enhanced weapon doesn't fit that thematically (unless you want your GS to be temporary) nor does it fit from the "remove items from circulation" point of view that was part of the stated purpose when the GS system went live.

You were cheating.

The fact that a lot of people cheated doesn't change that it was cheating. Just like free boots, cracks in the walls, summoned monsters, and many other commonly used (and sometimes long duration) past exploits.

my favorite post on another thread (no idea who said it) said, yeah, buddy, try that in my PnP campaign.
Ok, you charged the cell, now face the wrath of the deity who granted you the sword.

[PopeJual]

Apart from the obvious math (New zeal +10%/+8% =/= Old zeal +10%/ +10%)
I personally have never seen a quadruple attack and I play paladins almost exclusively. Assuming it did work then basically (1*0.8*0.1*0.8 = 0.064) 6% of the time you should quadruple attack.

I will pay more attention now, but I do not believe it is possible, but I have seen quite a few triple smites and even triple crit smites. I have seen literally a plethora of triple divine sacrifice attacks especially against shroud portals where the light damage is easy to see proc.

This.

I've recently capped a Tempest Ranger and I haven't yet seen a quadruple attack.

Considering the fact that I have a 100% off hand proc chance, I should be seeing quadruple attacks quite often as a Tempest III.

Edit: Proof for Visty that Doublestrikes cannot proc an off hand attack.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...44#post3225844

[AylinIsAwesome]

Apart from the obvious math (New zeal +10%/+8% =/= Old zeal +10%/ +10%)

110% of 80% is 88%.

It's not addition, it's multiplication. The difference (if Zeal does indeed with offhand) is in the new TWF mechanics.

[SteeleTrueheart]

110% of 80% is 88%.

It's not addition, it's multiplication. The difference (if Zeal does indeed with offhand) is in the new TWF mechanics.

Quite right, my apologies mixing in the 100% off hand nerf with the zeal % rates. If zeal still functioned as it used to it would give 110% and 88%. But since a second hand attack does not proc off a doublestrike it is actually 110% and 80%. So I still stand by the intended message I stated. New Zeal =/= Old zeal.