[Build] Drow Radiant Battle Cleric

[EchoingZen]

I am working on a build using Radiant Servant's Turn Undead regeneration with Divine Might. The sacred damage is quite strong at higher levels, so I figure I just need to land the blows. Am I headed down a bad path here, and can you guys suggest a few tweaks to help me along. Thanks! (I am missing some feats, some suggestions for those would be wonderful.)

Attributes
STR 13 DEX 15 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 16 (+2 DEX/+2 CHA/+1 STR for Level Increases)

Skills
Concentration, Balance

Feats
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Toughness
Empower Healing Spell

Weapon Choice
Rapiers and Shortswords for melee, Shurikens for ranged

[skyjuice]

[Build] Drow Radiant Battle Cleric

well..

[AyumiAmakusa]

1) Your stats are all over the place.
2) Don't build something based on Turn Undead regenerations because it will most likely be nerfed.
3) I don't like Drow.

[Phidius]

...
2) Don't build something based on Turn Undead regenerations because it will most likely be nerfed.
...

Sad, but true.

Stryde did just fine with his turns before they regenerated, so it will only hurt like lemon juice in a paper cut when they take it away.

Compared to the feeling of a vasectomy...

[EchoingZen]

1) Your stats are all over the place.
2) Don't build something based on Turn Undead regenerations because it will most likely be nerfed.
3) I don't like Drow.

Hey, what's wrong with Drow?

Well, the reason why I went with these stats is the 15 DEX (with two from leveling) will allow me to access the TWF chain of feats. The 10 INT was the lowest I could go, didn't need any more. WIS 14 I felt was reasonable, since I can get +WIS items and enhancements. 16 CHR was the lowest I could go and still qualify for Divine Might IV (with two from leveling). 12 CON because I want to live (I need more, but what am I gonna do?), and the rest when into STR.

I'm not too worried about it getting nerfed. If it does, I'll just reroll.

[k1ngp1n]

Not sure what you're exactly trying to do, but this character will be a bad nightmare. Wis 14 on a cleric? Split level ups?

Going for Divine Might on a cleric is usually a bad idea. 12 Con on a cleric = bad news.

Building a caster cleric that can melee in a pinch = good. Building a melee cleric with 14 wis = bad.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Not sure what you're exactly trying to do, but this character will be a bad nightmare. Wis 14 on a cleric? Split level ups?

Going for Divine Might on a cleric is usually a bad idea. 12 Con on a cleric = bad news.

Building a caster cleric that can melee in a pinch = good. Building a melee cleric with 14 wis = bad.

Listen to good advice ^^^^. A mediocre build with stats everywhere is always a bad idea. TWF on a cleric is BAD because Dex is a USELESS stat for clerics in the first place so you're just wasting stat points there.

[Phidius]

Not sure what you're exactly trying to do, but this character will be a bad nightmare. Wis 14 on a cleric? Split level ups?

Going for Divine Might on a cleric is usually a bad idea. 12 Con on a cleric = bad news.

Building a caster cleric that can melee in a pinch = good. Building a melee cleric with 14 wis = bad.

Listen to good advice ^^^^. A mediocre build with stats everywhere is always a bad idea. TWF on a cleric is BAD because Dex is a USELESS stat for clerics in the first place so you're just wasting stat points there.

I think the Op is refering to a Battle Cleric who focuses on melee, not a Battle Cleric who focuses on casting. A high wisdom helps a cleric who is intending to cast spells with saves, while a melee-focused cleric gets less benefit from higher wisdom.

My Battle Cleric would love to have 14's across the board - just not willing to do the 2nd TR to get it.

[AyumiAmakusa]

I think the Op is refering to a Battle Cleric who focuses on melee, not a Battle Cleric who focuses on casting. A high wisdom helps a cleric who is intending to cast spells with saves, while a melee-focused cleric gets less benefit from higher wisdom.

My Battle Cleric would love to have 14's across the board - just not willing to do the 2nd TR to get it.

But his stats are still all over the place. At higher levels and with that kind of str/dex, he'll never hit anything at all. And with a wis that low, he'll never be able to kill anything relying on SP.

[k1ngp1n]

I think the Op is refering to a Battle Cleric who focuses on melee, not a Battle Cleric who focuses on casting. A high wisdom helps a cleric who is intending to cast spells with saves, while a melee-focused cleric gets less benefit from higher wisdom.

My Battle Cleric would love to have 14's across the board - just not willing to do the 2nd TR to get it.

Your battle cleric is nowhere near pure. A pure/ish twf battle cleric speccing for Divine Might III isn't a cleric anymore (the costs are so high you're missing what defines you as a cleric). It's straying into underperforming pally area. Your cleric utilizes ranger levels to gain the TWF, and as such performs and operates differently.

Now if the OP would be willing to take a significant number of levels of a melee class, things would improve significantly. He'd still get rejected from almost every group, but he's be able to solo just fine (if not spectacularly.)

If the OP is just determined to make a melee divine caster, we already have a class for that: FvS. We also have plenty of melee battle cleric builds. But to think that there is anything more that a light paper-synergy between Radiant Servant and Divine Might is mistaken. Paper-synergy often does not translate into in-game-synergy.

Edit: I'd also like to note that after running with Stryde in the tempest shroud run, I have a significant level of respect for your build and yourself as a builder and player. This is not a criticism of battle clerics in general, or clerics that build for melee.

[EchoingZen]

I think the Op is refering to a Battle Cleric who focuses on melee, not a Battle Cleric who focuses on casting. A high wisdom helps a cleric who is intending to cast spells with saves, while a melee-focused cleric gets less benefit from higher wisdom.

My Battle Cleric would love to have 14's across the board - just not willing to do the 2nd TR to get it.

You are correct, I did want a melee focued battle cleric. So the only real issue with what I presented is the To-Hit? Could the buff spells provide enough with the right equipment?

[AyumiAmakusa]

Your battle cleric is nowhere near pure. A pure/ish twf battle cleric speccing for Divine Might III isn't a cleric anymore (the costs are just too high). It's straying into underperforming pally area. Your cleric utilizes ranger levels to gain the TWF, and as such performs and operates differently.

Now if the OP would be willing to take a significant number of levels of a melee class, things would improve significantly. He'd still get rejected from almost every group, but he's be able to solo just fine (if not spectacularly.)

If the OP is just determined to make a melee divine caster, we already have a class for that: FvS. We also have plenty of melee battle cleric builds. But to think that there is anything more that a light paper-synergy between Radiant Servant and Divine Might is mistaken. Paper-synergy often does not translate into in-game-synergy.

More good advice!! ^^^^^^^ You want a healing melee? Play a paladin or a FvS. Paladins have that 'multiple stat allocations' that you seem to like. XD

[Icculus3k]

Regarding your stats, consider tomes. You can put all your level ups into STR this way as you want to melee and this will be most important. DEX 15 +2 tome gets you your twf feats. If your just buffing and spot healing and not worried about DCs your wis can be lower to save you points. WIS 8 +2 tome +3 Enh +6 gear can give you the 19 wis for level 9 spells, but more is ok for more SP if you want it.

[Arsont]

True, I'm not a vet, by any means. But my opinion? Drop TWF (That's a lot of feats you're spending, and you're still only average DPS) and go with THF. I'm assuming you're going to be pure, so you'd probably have to take either a Weapon Proficiency feat or a level of a melee class (Fighter is usual, for the feat). Then you could use your extra feats to take Power Attack, metamagics, or whatever other feats you'd like. That would also help you tame your build a bit more-use Dex as a dump stat (AC really doesn't seem to be useful for clerics after around lvl 10, unless you've got some great gear. I personally keep Dex at 8), invest more in Str (You -do- want to be melee focused, don't you?) A base 14 Str would probably be the lowest, 16 would probably be best. 14 base Con is my personal minimum for clerics. On a drow, depending on your build, it might be harder to get, but it's worth it (Especially if you're wanting to make use of Radiant enhancements while in melee). Int is also a dump stat for you (Drow have base 10, that's usually fine. Eat tomes if you need more skill points, or toss any odd leftover build points here for skill points as well). Cha is really up to whatever you have left (But I'd still go no lower than 12).

You could pretty easily go with something like:
15/10/14/10/14/14
Level ups into Str, wear the best +Wis item you can find (Tomes are always nice too!)

With THF and a decent weapon (Falchion seems to be preferred), you'll have pretty solid to-hit and do reasonable damage (Especially if buffed).

Hope this helps you out a bit (And made sense!). Let me know how it goes.

Edit: Just ran a quick build based mostly on melee. Since the builder isn't updated for U5, it does't have Radiant Servant PrE, but you could make room for it by dropping Energy of the Zealot II and Extra Turning IV(I included all the perquisites for tiers I and II of the prestige, so that's all set.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Sara Lee
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1371 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 7
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            10                    12
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    11
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                  2                     7
Hide                  0                     1
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  2                     6
Listen                2                     6
Move Silently         0                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                  2                     6
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                n/a                   2
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Falchion


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Phidius]

...
Now if the OP would be willing to take a significant number of levels of a melee class, things would improve significantly. He'd still get rejected from almost every group, but he's be able to solo just fine (if not spectacularly.)
...

My preference is to match the dominant class with the dominant ability (in a general kind of way).

If you focus on a casting stat, you really want to focus on the casting levels. A high wisdom goes better with a high caster, for example.

If you choose to virtually dump your primary casting stat for combat abilities, you really need to consider mixing in a substantial number of melee levels.

...
If the OP is just determined to make a melee divine caster, we already have a class for that: FvS. We also have plenty of melee battle cleric builds. But to think that there is anything more that a light paper-synergy between Radiant Servant and Divine Might is mistaken. Paper-synergy often does not translate into in-game-synergy...

I don't know - I'm so used to conserving my Turns for major fights, it's going to take me a while to get used to being more generous with them. On the one quest I had time to run last night, I shrined with all of my turns recharged, even though I felt I was being liberal with the aura and DM2s.

You are correct, I did want a melee focued battle cleric. So the only real issue with what I presented is the To-Hit? Could the buff spells provide enough with the right equipment?

Yes, provided you don't rely solely on them. You still need to consider your choice of Abilities, Feats, and class levels. Divine Favor + Divine Power won't be enough on their own.

[ThePrincipal]

Can I make a TWF cleric suggestion? I've messed around with the battlecleric idea with fighter and monk splashes and I think you could get away with 2 lvls of ranger here. It would give you TWF for free without meeting the Dex requirment. You could then take oversized-twf to use two rapiers for your Drow and top it off with improved critical. You dont need to take the entire twf style chain to be effective. You can fill the in gaps with a string of combat buffs.

A 18cleric/2ranger drow with rapiers sounds fun...

I'd also make the comment that at a minimum you run 16 strength, 16 wisdom, and 12 con. Put all level-ups into strength. Cleric Wisdom III will give you the 19 wisdom needed to cast 9th lvl spells (also run the biggest str and wis items you can find at your level).

[sirgog]

My preference is to match the dominant class with the dominant ability (in a general kind of way).

If you focus on a casting stat, you really want to focus on the casting levels. A high wisdom goes better with a high caster, for example.

If you choose to virtually dump your primary casting stat for combat abilities, you really need to consider mixing in a substantial number of melee levels.

Never take more than three non-cleric levels on a melee cleric.

A Clr17/Xxx3 can still be a primary healer, or can soloheal Shroud, because they have Mass Heal.

A Clr16/Xxx4 can't really do it without mana potions.

With the current lack of offensive Divine spells that are useful at endgame, Wisdom provides very little to a cleric build. Lower Wisdom means your Bladebarrier is weaker and you have a less effective Symbol of Stunning (the Cleric's bad equivalent of Mass Hold Monster), and you do less damage to Undead that you happen to cast Mass Heal near (most relevant on Sor'jek, Epic Wiz-King and Epic Sentinels).

I just dropped the Cleric Wisdom 1 and 2 enhancements on my main (Clr18/Ftr2 Str-based melee/healer hybrid) and all it costs me is 29SP (easily regained by taking other, cheaper enhancements), a Bladebarrier that's about 3-4% weaker (if mobs save 70% of the time instead of 65%, the damage goes from 67.5% of full to 65%), and a similar drop in incidental Mass Heal damage. I can live with that.

[Phidius]

Never take more than three non-cleric levels on a melee cleric...

Too late, already did! And I'm never going back...

I've got a 17/2/1 battle cleric that I abandoned long ago.

[t0r012]

I am working on a build using Radiant Servant's Turn Undead regeneration with Divine Might. The sacred damage is quite strong at higher levels, so I figure I just need to land the blows. Am I headed down a bad path here, and can you guys suggest a few tweaks to help me along. Thanks! (I am missing some feats, some suggestions for those would be wonderful.)

Attributes
STR 13 DEX 15 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 16 (+2 DEX/+2 CHA/+1 STR for Level Increases)

Skills
Concentration, Balance

Feats
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Toughness
Empower Healing Spell

Weapon Choice
Rapiers and Shortswords for melee, Shurikens for ranged

Well errr...ummm... yeah

can I interest you in a monk splash to help your combat a bit? you'd have to give up the weapons but you would gain a lot. I hate to go past 2 but would probably say this one needs 3 monk.
monk gets you evasion, bonus feats which can be use to take a TWF and I'd throw in finesse personally and maybe power attack for some extra damage . I'd also probably drop the cha to 15 and take dex to 16.
take tortoise animal for a couple extra hp and the concentration 3rd level mainly for the fist of darkness for the extra 2d10 when you can swing the ki freedom to change stances when you feel the need for a stat boost . Also opens monk improved recovery which with a lowish con will probably be needed.

[aGorilla]

Edit: Just ran a quick build based mostly on melee.

Thanks Arsont.

I'm also interested in trying out a melee-capable Radiant Servant. Does anybody know of any other posted builds that I can compare this with? I'd prefer a 32 point build (if it's not a Drow), with fewer tomes required.