U5 Paladin 14/Monk 6

[EinarMal]

This build is an attempt at using some new features in update 5. You get monk stance with longswords, shadow fade for some defense, double strikes, and good self healing.

Elf Paladin 14/Monk 6

Str 16 (32=16 +5 Levels +3 Tome +2 Exc. +6 Item)
Dex 15 (24=15 +3 Tome +6 Item)
Con 12 (20=12 +2 Tome +6 Item)
Int 8 8
Wis 9 (18=9 +3 Tome +6 Item)
Cha 16 (24=16 +2 Tome +6 Item)

Progression
1 thru 6-Monk
7 thru 20-Paladin

Feats:
1-TWF
1-(MB)Dodge
2-(MB)Toughness
3-Weapon Focus Longsword
3-(MB)Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
6-Whirling Steel Strike
6-(MB)Power Attack
9-ITWF
12-IC Slashing
15-GTWF
18-Extend

Enhancements:
Monk Ninja Spy I
Monk Tumble II
Monk Jump II
Monk Way of the Elegant Crane II
Monk Porous Soul
Monk Improved Recovery I
Monk Adept of Wind
Elf Melee Attack II
Elf Melee Damage II
Paladin Toughness IV
Paladin Devotion IV
Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Paladin KOTC I
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Paladin Courage of Good II
Paladin Divine Might II
Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Paladin Follower of the Sovereign Host
Paladin KOTC II

HP:
188(Levels) +20(Heroic) +10(Draconic) +30(GFL) +100(Con) +20(Helm) +45(GreenSteel) +22(Tough) +40(Enh.)=475

SP:
145(14Pally) +92(Cha) +40(EOT) +250(Item)=527

To Hit:
BAB +20
Str +11
Weap +5
Bard +8
Haste +1
Sov +1
Elf +2
DF +3
WF +1
TWF -4
PA -5
Total = +39

Damage:
Weapon +5
Str +11
Song +8
FB Set +2
Elf +2
PA +5
DF +3
DM +4
Total = +40

Spells:
1-Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration, Virtue
2-Angelskin, Resist Energy
3-Cure Moderate Wounds, Prayer
4-Zeal

Saves (Fort/Reflex/Will):
Base: 14/9/9
Attributes: 5/7/4
Resistance: 5/5/5
Greater Hero: 4/4/4
Divine Grace: 7/7/7
Paladin: 1/1/1
Total: 36/33/30

Pros:
Very good DPS, saves, self healing, and some defense with shadow fade, plus good utility spells

Cons:
Hit points are a little on the low side, and to-hit is as well

[unbongwah]

WSS requires WF Slash which requires BAB 1, so you couldn't take either at monk 1. Is WSS a monk bonus feat? If so, then it's not a big deal: take TWF & Toughness at monk 1; then take paladin 1; then take monk 2 w/WF Slash & WSS. But if WSS isn't a monk bonus feat, then it gets trickier.

Also, I don't think you can take Extend (or any other metamagic) before you can cast spells, but I won't swear to that.

[EinarMal]

WSS requires WF Slash which requires BAB 1, so you couldn't take either at monk 1. Is WSS a monk bonus feat? If so, then it's not a big deal: take TWF & Toughness at monk 1; then take paladin 1; then take monk 2 w/WF Slash & WSS. But if WSS isn't a monk bonus feat, then it gets trickier.

Also, I don't think you can take Extend (or any other metamagic) before you can cast spells, but I won't swear to that.

Ah good catch didn't see that requirement. I will re-work the feat list. I did not see WSS as a monk bonus feat, but there are plenty of feats on the build will re-work. You are also correct on Extend I will have to move that.

[EinarMal]

Updated with corrected feat list

[JollySwagMan]

WSS is not a Monk Martial Art feat, however it does count as a Fighter Martial feat.

[unbongwah]

They made WSS a fighter feat, even though monk builds are the only ones who benefit from it?

[k1ngp1n]

They made WSS a fighter feat, even though monk builds are the only ones who benefit from it?

Fighter Kensai was designed originally to have a significant synergy with monk (devs were hoping for more fighter/monks). They still are. Pure monks do not benefit from WSS, its only for splashes, so it makes sense that a WSS build could include Kensai.

[EinarMal]

Fighter Kensai was designed originally to have a significant synergy with monk (devs were hoping for more fighter/monks). They still are. Pure monks do not benefit from WSS, its only for splashes, so it makes sense that a WSS build could include Kensai.

In any event build has been updated with legal feat list.

[unbongwah]

You could take paladin at first level so you can take WF Slash, then take WSS at lvl 3. Costs you 8 skill points, though, so it's up to you whether it's worth it to get WSS 3 lvls sooner.

[EinarMal]

You could take paladin at first level so you can take WF Slash, then take WSS at lvl 3. Costs you 8 skill points, though, so it's up to you whether it's worth it to get WSS 3 lvls sooner.

Yeah no worries, will just use fists/kama until 6, easy either way.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Building for doublestrikes is just fail.
A 14pal/6mnk is not any better than it were,, and it wasn't really good in the first place.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Building for doublestrikes is just fail.
A 14pal/6mnk is not any better than it were,, and it wasn't really good in the first place.

Please, learn some people-skills.

I think this build combo hits the maximum possible double strike value possible and it's one i mentioned as a possibility somewhere so for that i like it.
My preference would be to go light path for those useful buffs rather than dark path and because it seems somehow wrong for a dark path monk to be a paladin.
Are you really gaining enough out of ninja-spy to invest the AP into it?
Would 1 more paladin level (and sacrificing 2.5% double strike) be worth considering to get DMIII for an extra +2 damage? This frees up 2 more levels for fighter or rogue if you wanted trap skills and/or intimidate as monk 3 is all that's needed.

[EinarMal]

Please, learn some people-skills.

I think this build combo hits the maximum possible double strike value possible and it's one i mentioned as a possibility somewhere so for that i like it.
My preference would be to go light path for those useful buffs rather than dark path and because it seems somehow wrong for a dark path monk to be a paladin.
Are you really gaining enough out of ninja-spy to invest the AP into it?
Would 1 more paladin level (and sacrificing 2.5% double strike) be worth considering to get DMIII for an extra +2 damage? This frees up 2 more levels for fighter or rogue if you wanted trap skills and/or intimidate as monk 3 is all that's needed.

I like the 25% incorporeal, to me that is a big plus, you also get elemental strikes and sneak attack. The damage of one more Paladin level would be less than that.

[Bago]

I wonder though, can you multismite with unarmed now?

[EinarMal]

I wonder though, can you multismite with unarmed now?

Most of the time I will use longswords assuming that you can critical, unarmed for critical immune mobs.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I like the 25% incorporeal, to me that is a big plus, you also get elemental strikes and sneak attack. The damage of one more Paladin level would be less than that.

Monk 3 vs monk 6:
Lose incorporeality, 1 feat, 1d6 sneak attack, tier 2 elemental paths (2.5% doublestrike)
+1 paladin, 2 rogue.
1d6+3 sneak attack, full trap skills, UMD, intimidate and +2 damage with DMIII. Also gain rogue haste boost I and rogue damage boost I which can be useful to up your DPS a bit.
+1 paladin, 2 fighter.
2 feats, +10 hp from toughness, +1 strength, fighter haste boost and +2 to confirm critical hits, and of course +2 damage from DMIII and intimidate.

Additionally, either path lets you choose FoL which gives those excellent short term buffs. You can probably keep your party with +2 att/saves/skills and 20% blur all the time (without needing clickies or wasting casters SP) not to mention protecting against the stun of some nasty bosses and saving 25% of your parties SP.

Finally, 15 paladin gets you 1 extra smite/day and lets you fit in a second 4th level spell so you can get some holy sword to go with your zeal (or something else)

A final note, if you have a +3 dex tome you should lower your starting dex to 14 as you'll still qualify for feats that you need, bump wisdom up 1. Also, if you are only getting DMII then you don't need 16 starting charisma, drop that down 2 points and you can push wisdom up by 4, 3 points on AC/DCs and more SP.

hehe i said AC/DCs.

[thxkross11]

You base attack bonus would be 18 not 20...monks advance the same as bards, clerics, favored souls, and rogues in regards to base attack bonus progression.

It is not that big of a deal, just a correction I thought I'd mention.




Forgive me, I wasn't taking into account a monk's furry of blows. Please disregard my statement